Double Merle Breeding

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SevenSins

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#61
You clearly have absolutely no idea how merle works, and are pulling baseless theories out of your undesirables to support your uneducated opinion.

This is my opinion: merle to merle breedings can be done haphazardly, with high white content dogs who are not tested in any way, or they can be done responsibly with low white content dogs who have been health & dna tested. Imo, we see so many deaf and blind Aussies because they are bred by BYBs and show breeders alike to be "flashy", with as much white as possible.
 

ihartgonzo

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#64
You clearly have absolutely no idea how merle works, and are pulling baseless theories out of your undesirables to support your uneducated opinion.
Wow, funny how you picked my quote out, as Linds and others said almost the exact same thing regarding Koolies and low white content. W/e.
 

JessLough

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#65
A hatred for show breeders??? Casper's owner has many champion dogs. I hope to own a show quality Cardigan.
we see so many deaf and blind Aussies because they are bred by BYBs and show breeders /cut
Yah, I read that as a hatred for show breeders. Plus, when you attacked owned by BCs for showing her dogs.
 
S

SevenSins

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#66
Wow, funny how you picked my quote out, as Linds and others said almost the exact same thing regarding Koolies and low white content. W/e.
Well...you're not all hard to pick out of a crowd, being as you left yourself wide open the other day when you exclaimed that someone who breeds scarily poor-quality "APBTs" through a point and click "add to cart" system on their website was "better than most APBT breeders." :rolleyes:
 

MandyPug

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#67
Just want to add off topic here... I see no where that he's a service dog and there are no titles for begin a service dog anyways, me thinks you're getting therapy dog and service dog mixed up as he is tested by the Delta society. Besides that there's only the AKC therapy dog cert thing really as far as titles go.

Therapy Dog =/= Service dog...


/end off topic rant
 

Whisper

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#68
This thread was very enjoyable and interesting until the last page. :(
 

vandog

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#70
What I do know is that the loss of genetic diversity in a breed is devastating. Look around at the purebred world and this is more than evident. I would hate to see the Koolie breed go down that path. Who knows what else is lurking in those genes that could crop up with increased homogeneity? Merle is, as others said, relatively easily identified...not all conditions are, and some can be downright infuriating to identify and trace.

So while I'm not and never will be a promoter of M/? X M/? breedings and the 1/4 chance for each individual to be M/M, I would much rather the goal of becoming a m/m- and M/m-only breed be a gradual and intelligent process and could not in good conscience universally condemn folks doing merle-to-merle breedings along the way. And with education, any luck, and a bit of faith in humanity as a whole I like to think that acceptance and use of solid dogs will become more and more popular...from what I'm hearing it's already trending that way.
Thanks for this. I am not bagging these breeders, I am just going to buy from someone who chooses not to do so.
 

~Tucker&Me~

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#75
While I may not agree with Erika on her stance regarding merle to merle breedings, I don't believe she was insinuating that breeding show BCs was on par with breeding dogs with genetic deformities. She was trying to say that some people in the BC world would consider breeding show dogs to be so bad that the resulting puppies aren't even border collies anymore. Her point was that she doesn't consider merle x merle that bad, just like some BC people don't care that the dogs come from show lines.

Again, I can't say I agree with her, but I also dislike people twisting words around and tearing her apart over things she did not mean.
 

Pops2

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#77
ihartgonzo
your statement about breeding for deformities being worse than merleXmerle was spot on.

on the leopard dogs, i got to read some stuff from that A&M study a while back (years ago) and they found a correlation (not willing to say causation) between brindleXmerle & the production of unexpressed merle (phantom, cryptic whatever you want to call it).
follow on breedings of these unexpressed merles to other unexpressed merles produced high color double merles w/ a FAR lower incidence of all health issues. although these breedings could & did produce traditional high white doubles, the incidence was extremely low. further breeding these merles to expressed single & double merles also showed much lower rates of health defects.
 

vandog

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#78
ihartgonzo
your statement about breeding for deformities being worse than merleXmerle was spot on.

on the leopard dogs, i got to read some stuff from that A&M study a while back (years ago) and they found a correlation (not willing to say causation) between brindleXmerle & the production of unexpressed merle (phantom, cryptic whatever you want to call it).
follow on breedings of these unexpressed merles to other unexpressed merles produced high color double merles w/ a FAR lower incidence of all health issues. although these breedings could & did produce traditional high white doubles, the incidence was extremely low. further breeding these merles to expressed single & double merles also showed much lower rates of health defects.
I believe that a college in California (maybe Cal Poly?) was doing genetic testing on merles a few years ago when I lived there. Nothing yet as to if they have found any markers.
 

vandog

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#79
cryptic merles

Here are examples of Cryptic Merles, which can be considered part of the double merle scenario as they can pass off as black tri's to the uneducated eye.



 

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