Minding when distracted

[Doberluv]

Sounds like you found a good trainer by the description you gave. This is great. Yes, hand signals are usually learned first because not only do dog learn better visually rather than verbally, but you're usually using a hand to lure or prompt and that just automatically becomes a hand signal. I always get the behavior going well first before adding a verbal cue so they don't have so much stuff in their ears and minds, muddying up their concentration.

I'm glad things are coming along for you.

 

[Jynx]

I agree with Carrie,,she sounds like a GREAT trainer!! I am so glad you found someone and like her methods and ideas..I'm sure you both will gain huge insight from her experience.

Let us know how the classes go!!

 

[JoeLacy]

I think she is really good Carrie, it took a while to find her and of course time will tell.

It is difficult to train a dog when all I have is the internet. What I need now is someone to evaluate this puppy and me and make suggestions in real time. I'm sure there are habits I need to break like hand signals, then voice. When I watched the youtube videos, I didn't catch that very important detail. I'm sure there are other things that this trainer can spot. I tend to be a big picture kind of guy and often the "keys" are in the details that a novice like me may overlook.

I've learned a great deal in 3 weeks and Peyton has made great progress. We just need to step back 3 weeks and take this class from start to finish to solidify the basics. In my mind, this is like repeating the 1st grade and the second time around should be easier than the first. This should provide a solid base for Peyton when we move on to intermediate class. But I'm not looking ahead other than a goal. We'll be taking it one class at a time, one week at a time through mid December.

7 more weeks of training, is double what I have spent to date. I can't even imagine what another 7 weeks will bring. She has come so far, with me knowing nothing and now that I have some guidance, there's little doubt she will do very well.

I made a promise when I adopted this puppy to give her a high quality of life. Part of that is being accepted in a wide variety of circumstances. If I didn't do my best, I would be breaking my promise. I gave my son a loving home, plenty to eat but I also insisted he do his homework and learn and practice good manners. Peyton is a dog but her home with me will be no different. Like my son, she will have many advantages with me and I will continue to dedicate my time so she grows into a happy, healthy and sociable adult.

Much of my frustration in this thread came out of ignorance. The other large part was the path. I knew where I wanted to go but had no map. I think I have the map now and I'm relieved that I can at least attempt live up to my promise. I try not to break my promises, not even to a dog.

I could have owned any dog and looked at many. I could have owned a well trained dog or a prettier dog but there was something about this puppy that moved me in a way that no other dog did. What I saw that 1st day was "potential" and she certainly has not disappointed. I'm higher on this pup today than 3 weeks ago.

I have sometimes wondered where this pup would be today if I had not adopted her from the pound. Would she have been put down? Would she have been adopted out? I have no way of knowing but I think it's pretty unlikely she would have the same quality of life and the bright future she has today. I'm not sure most people who shop at the kill shelter would have taken on such an untrained dog but I'm incredibly happy that I did.

 

[JoeLacy]

Oh, I forgot to mention.

The trainer and I had a conversation about high value treats. We talked about my homemade treats. In class she uses this pet food sold by Petsmart. It comes in a tube and can be cut up. I bought some and Peyton responded well but then Peyton eats anything from my hand. I'll get the name of this tube food today and post back.

Anyway, I mentioned what someone posted on this board about treats what the dogs go nuts over for high value treats. I told her that I had heard Quail hearts were at the top of the list. She said she had some in her freezer. This was just another "little" thing that made me think this trainer was not the typical Petsmart trainer but someone who was really in the know.

When I was looking for classes I dismissed Petsmart/Petco as an option. I had watched some of the classes and wasn't very impressed. Someone on this board told me that "some" of the petsmart trainers were really good but I needed to pick the trainer. I called the trainers store and left a message. She called back and the rest is history. I stand corrected on the Petsmart training.

Petsmart offers a coupon book and a $30.00 off per class coupon making 8 weeks of classes $79.00. A good value, good trainer and it's 10 minutes from my home. She also does private lessons and offers an intermediate class through Petsmart which I will consider once Peyton and I get through boot camp.

I'm not going to feed Peyton this morning other than a light snack and see if that gives me an edge. Class is at noon, so I'm hoping this will gain some advantage. I'll take a can of spray cheese and her kong toy to hedge my bet. I will take a full bait bag, she won't be hungry when we leave.

I expect it to be chaos. Barking, jumping, pulling, whining, lunging, leash chewing at least for the first 30 minutes. The trainer said, they work on training inside the retail store to add to the distractions. It may be a long 1 hour but I'm hoping for the best.

I understand "we" have to go through this to get to the other side. I cannot distract and reward unless she goes nuts. My guess is that I will have ample opportunity to distract.

I'll take her to the dog park after class and let her burn off some pent up energy. I wonder though if I should take her to the dog park before class?

If I took her before, that might burn off energy but also might rev her up. She might see class as another dog park. The trainer did say, class time is not play time and above all else we have to maintain control. The trainer did say to take Peyton for a walk, then get to the store and hour early just to walk around in the store. I'll follower her advice and ask her thoughts after class.

I'll report back what happens today.

 

[JoeLacy]

I just looked closer that the CGC test for the first time. Youtube examples then went to the AKC site. Peyton is really closer than I thought.

Test 1. I have not tried this, usually people are making eye contact with her and egging her on. I may try that today. She thinks anyone that comes up to ME is there to meet and greet and play with HER.

Test 2. Peyton does sit for petting from a stranger although once she has been petted for a few seconds she paws then may even jump. She does not sit at my side but moves in front of me and usually pulls to get to the stranger.

Test 3. She's ok with being touched/groomed by a stranger. Her groomer said they had no problems.

Test 4. No problem.

Test 5. She does exhibit some pulling in a crowd. This can be easily corrected and we'll work on this one today after class.

Test 6. No problem.

Test 7. No problem.

Test 8. - Reaction to other dogs - FAILS!!

Test 9. She is a jumpy dog. She does not try to bite, but does shy away at loud unexpected noises and if spooked badly enough she will bark. Not in an aggressive way, I think it's more of a reaction. The Aussie is a shy breed to begin with and her lack of socialization and self confidence may be harder to overcome than some dogs. Not a huge deal here, she just needs exposure and I'll give her plenty of that.

Test 10. No problem.

Most of these are easy training issues. Reaction to other dogs is her weakest point. I think I'll leave that one for last and get professional help. The rest we can work on out of class and I'm hopeful we could take this test within the next 6 months.

I think I will forego the dog park today and let her go play with my sons dogs. There is also an Octoberfest going on near my sons house, so I'll take Peyton out there to work on her walking in a crowd. She does pretty well in a crowd if I keep my walk like a mission. If I slow down then she wants to wander. Better on a Gentle Leader than a flat collar by a wide margin but I feel bad about using the head collar because she looks so confined.

I may post some video of todays activities. It should be a fun day for her.

 

[JoeLacy]

It was an interesting day and not what I expected.

First the class. It’s too basic at least at this point, it was sit and loose leash walking. We’re past that already. Next week is down and leave it. Peyton knows that too. 25% of the class is walking around socializing in Petsmart. I like the trainer but I think at this point we are a little bit a head of the class.

What the class did do is force me to figure out how to calm Peyton. I wasn’t always successful but it was more manageable than I thought. In class I had that chew toy and kept pumping in that Cheese, that did it until she got all the cheese out. In the store I could get her in a sit and even in a down with other dogs not too far away. I was surprised and she was still whining but did not break the down/stay until the dog got close.

What happens next is what surprised me in the day. After we went to class, I took her to the dog park. She ran and played for about 45 minutes. There is a Petco about 10 minutes from the dog park and we stopped by. What I saw there was a completely different dog.

She was much calmer around people and other dogs. Walking down the isles she was near perfect. She would lie down and when a dog walked by, she would get up but not pull with the same intensity. I have no clue what I did to bring this on, but whatever had happened to her, it was a good thing.

So the question is what did this? Was it that she was tired? Was it that she had played and that part of her was fulfilled? Was she suddenly socialized to the point that it’s just another dog? I’m not sure what happened but she was certainly more manageable at the end of the day than the start of the day in the Pet stores. In the morning she was on her GL and afternoon her rolled collar which is even more remarkable.

One thing seems clear, dog parks and Pet stores should become a regular activity for this pup.

 

[Doberluv]

I experienced a similar "phenomenon" with Lyric when he was a pup in class as well as in more advanced classes. It's actually quite common. He was very dog reactive, but in a class situation, when all the dogs are "in the same boat," he behaved beautifully. Same in agility, off leash. He was just fine and was intent on his "job." (a working dog thing) On a casual leash walk around here...if he saw a random dog coming toward us, he went ape s@%!. LOL.

It is the socializing and practicing mundane things around all those dogs that is the main benefit of puppy classes. And it's very beneficial. Don't think that it has so terribly much to do with skills as it does with socializing. You can teach the skills anytime, private lessons or on your own if you learn how. Or in another class next time where you get more one on one, individual things to work on according to each dog's level.

When I took Lyric to puppy class so he could socialize and "work" in the midst of dogs, he was also much further along in his obedience than the other pups. We had already gotten lots of things down fairly pat. Once, in the next level up from puppies, I think it was, all the dogs were put in a down/stay in a line while we were to walk away about 25feet or so. Everyone lowered their arms in a big flourish and swept their hands across their dog's faces to indicate "stay." I simply flicked my wrist over with my palm down (quite sloppily and subtly) to indicate "down"...and walked away. As I was about to the 25 ft. mark and Lyric staying just perfectly, watching me, the trainer said, "You forgot to tell him to stay!" And I replied. "I don't have to tell him to stay. That's understood. When I leave him in whatever position he is in and I lead off with my right foot, he is to stay by default unless otherwise "posted."' She had this big grin on her face and said, "show off!"

So, your dog may be better at skills than the other dogs, but the socialization and practing those skills in the presence of the dogs is wonderful for her. Remember, dogs don't generalize behavior very well. They need practice in all kinds of situations. Just not over their ability to focus or function at all... or it's not going to do much good that way.

 

[JoeLacy]

Ok show off

This is a great point. As a matter of fact this type of environment may be better for her now than a quiet room. Because she knows sit is one thing but the more situations I can get her to sit in, the more solid she becomes in a quiet room.

I saw that very thing last night. We did our usual Starbucks hang out at the end of the evening and then took a calm stroll towards home. We stopped off at a parking lot and worked on her heel. It was the most amazing thing to me since I have had her. For the very first time, I didn't feel like I needed a leash. No matter where I turned, left right, straight or about face, she was lock step with me and laser focused. I put the leash over my head and held it with one finger, it was like a slow dance in the parking lot, and I realized as much as I have done wrong, some things I have done right. It was a beautiful thing and it was perfect. All we needed was music.

There may be another dynamic going on as well. I noticed yesterday a different look in her eye when she looked at me. I believe she is starting to see her life with me as not just another layover in her mixed up unstable existence, but someone she can rely upon and someone who is permanent in her life. It's almost like she went from a child to a teenager and had an epiphany yesterday. I have to believe that this pup has never had a stable loving home. She has had no consistency and most likely wanted to be loved but that part of her was denied. I give her all of this and more and I think she's starting to realize the difference from her life then, to her life now. I may be reading something into this than what's there, but I do think she's finally settling in to her new home.

I notice something else in her training. If we work on something one day and I go back to it the next, she does is better the second day than the first. But what’s more surprising is that she does it better the first time we try it the second day than the last time she tried it on the first day. In other words, it seems like she thought about it overnight. LOL

I’m starting to receive more complements on her behavior now when we are out in public. As wild as she is sometimes, she is as equally well behaved in less chaotic environments. Working with her in these chaotic environments will only be a benefit to her. I.E. Puppy classes, Petstores and dog parks. I agree, I think it's socializing she needs now. She knows how to sit

I still have that other class on Thursdays and now this one on Saturday. I will use those opportunities not teach something new but instill what she already knows under the circumstances that the chaotic classes afford. It's counter productive to be trying to teach a new behavior when the socializing component is not complete in such environments. This makes perfect sense.

 

[JoeLacy]

Let me take a second to publicly thank you Carrie, and Diane for helping me here. Many people have joined this thread and left but you two have stayed with me throughout and I sincerely appreciate your help. My perceived reality is often not in line with the situation and the fact is that I need your input to reshape my thinking in a manner that will benefit this puppy.

This is the first dog that I have ever made a concerted effort to attempt to understand and train. While I feel I have made some limited end roads, much more learning needs to be done on my end so I may guide this innately wonderful puppy to a happy adulthood.

I need your checks and balances and alternative view points other than my own perceived reality and I am grateful for your time, your effort and insight. Let this be said and known to all. Thank you.

 

[smkie]

Sounds like you have crossed the line of the hardest part. Now it will be easier to concentrate on little issues. All the hard work makes for a fine partner. Congrats!

I love the leash dance

 

[JoeLacy]

The dance was kind of a surreal moment for me. It was very quiet and only lit by the street lights. I'm sure if the neighbors had seen us that it would confirm what they already suspect, that I have have gone over the edge with this puppy.

The neighbors see us all the time walking up and down the lines marked on the pavement out there. I'm sure they wonder why but have been polite enough not to ask. Either that they think I can't find my way home and it's best not to approach the lunatic with a leash.

Now to dance with barking dogs and running squirrels around. That would r e a l l y be something, but I'm very happy with all the gains no matter how large or small. Everyday it gets easier and more enjoyable.

We'll do the dog park then Petsmart this morning, then be home in time for the Cowboy/ Giants game. Do Starbucks this evening and dance our way home.

 

[Doberluv]

I think the leash dance sounds fun. I act like a luantic too with my dogs. Its a good thing I don't have any close neighbors or who knows where I might be carted off to. I'm very playful and idiotic with my dogs. With your puppy, it's better to be considered over the edge than to miss out on what you like to do together.

Thank you for being so gracious. I just hate to see someone who really wants things to go right between them and their dog, but is frustrated and lacking the tools which help. I could see that you had a burning desire to get on track so I couldn't just let you flail around without putting in my .02 worth. I think you're doing super duper with Peyton and having fun while you're "on the road." That's so important for both of you. You guys will have a great life together. Keep up the good work!

 

[Jynx]

I'm with Carrie,,and would also mention something she did,,i ALSO have gone back to basic classes when my dog was more advanced than the others, just for the socializing and working on distractions/chaos, whatever I needed to do, so while the 'basics' may have been a tad boring for ME,,it really wasn't for my aussie because she really loves to 'show' off and gave us an opportunity to fine tune things..

I' was lucky, and I'm sure you are to, with the trainer who allowed me to kind of do my own thing with her because we were ahead of the others..

OK JOE<< I think since you have this AMAZING aussie you need to find yourself a basic agility class ))))))))) It sounds like Peyton is becoming REALLY tuned to YOU,,and this would be another great outlet for both of you!!!! Have I mentioned there aren't to many men in agility and we like to see them out there !!! I know you are liking the "brains" of this girl,,and the way she is progressing,,well heck,,aussies LOVE agility and then there's herding too ))))))

If you think you are doing silly things now with your girl,,wait till you do agility )) My aussie loves weaving thru my legs,,and racing around a course with a big grin on her face, (tho the food vendors are more interesting for her LOL)...

Ok,,I'm pushing you for the next level, and I shouldn't,,because your doing a wonderful job, but I am thinking you two would LOVE agility )))
diane

 

[Doberluv]

I agree Jynx. Agility would be absolutely a blast for both....such a great prey energy burner and so much fun. However, Peyton is only 8 months old so she should probably either do a puppy agility, where the jumps are very low and the other things aren't so "violent" like those weave poles. And wait till her growth plates are closed on the long bones...probably around 18 months give or take...may be less for a smaller dog. Lyric and I did a puppy agility class when he was about 6 months. He was already jumping logs and things way higher than he should when we were out on walks in the woods. He'd leap off the front porch, skipping all 5 of the stairs and landing on the concrete. There was no stopping him. But nothing ever happened to his bones, thank goodness. But in class he did jumps the height for a Chihuahua. LOL. And we took the weave poles very slowly so there wasn't so much jerking back and forth. It was just a milder, slower type of agility than we did later.

 

[Jynx]

carrie definately,,,I am seeing so much more offered for puppies regarding agility,,as in foundation flat work etc...Just a 'good time' for the puppies.

My new gsd puppy is such a daredevil I cringe everytime we go hiking,,she is alot like your Lyric, jumping off my deck, racing thru the woods, attacking her soccer ball and going head over paws...I don't know how in heck I'm going to get thru the first year with her she is making me a nervous wreck ))))

I just took her on a 2 mile hike and she had her soccer ball,,carries it, comes and drops it, I kick it, she attacks it, brings it back,,and it repeats,,the WHOLE darn 2 miles!!

I have been appreciating my aussie who I thought was high energy and demanding ALOT more )))
diane

 

[Doberluv]

LOL. That is funny! She sounds like a real kick. I know. I cringed the first 2 years of his life. After two, signs of civilization began to give hints and as he neared three, he was the perfect dog....almost. He developed liver disease, which we managed okay. And by four, cancer and then poof.... he was gone.

So, in spite of the horrors of puppyhood, (I don't know if I could even do a big puppy again, I'm running out of energy) enjoy the ruckus.....

 

[JoeLacy]

Good Evening Ladies.

All I ever wanted was a house dog. Calm and respectful to people and pets. As I sit her tonight I have that and more. We just got in from our walk to Starbucks. She walked right in front and on the sidewalk weaving in and out of tables and people with only an occasional head turn. We are both walking slow tonight and neither of us walking with a mission. We walked back to the house and Peyton saw some trash, I said leave it in a very soft voice and she ignored it. Later she picked up a cigarette pack and I said in a soft voice drop it and she dropped it. One cue for each. No leash pulling tonight at all, we could have danced. It was a gentle walk at a very very casual pace with her right by my side. Our walks now are not frantic or harsh. I have to remind myself I have a dog on a leash unless I hear her tags jingle. The fact is, Peyton is better behaved that 90% of the dogs I see out there.

We did go to the dog park today. Two things happened. One, she wore herself out. We were there for an hour and it's was a bit too much on her. She wanted to rest on the way back to the car, not once but twice. She slept most of the rest of the day as did I.
Her play drive is so strong that she may do harm to herself. She runs and runs and runs and runs. She will run until she collapses.

I got hurt today at the dog park, this huge Akita ran full speed and knocked me down. It was like a linebacker hitting me broadside. I hit the ground pretty hard and have some chest and leg pain tonight. I'll be ok, but our activities slowed waaay down after that happened. We did not go to Petsmart as neither of us felt like it.

I do think she would do well in agility, fly ball or something. She's fast for her size and smart. She runs until she drops and that may be something to consider down the line but for right now, I think I should stay on task with honing her basic obedience skills first and then move on. Once she's solid on her basics around other dogs, her basic training will be complete. If it wasn't for other dogs, her training would be complete tonight. The fact is she's sweet and well mannered, calm and shows complete self control under "normal" circumstances. She is already my idea of the perfect dog.

We still have work to do under distractions and I'm looking forward to getting her through that phase. I know what kind of dog she can be because I have it now. I just need to take her to the next level and I'm confident she can do it.

What the future brings after that is anyones guess but all I ever wanted was a go everywhere do anything house dog. She never has to pass the CGC or win a ribbon, it was never about that and beside, she's already a Medal winner to me.

 

[Doberluv]

Oh, definitely she needs to have her basic obedience down pat before going into agility. That is always a pre-requisit to anything beyond. It sounds like a happy relationship you're developing. I'm sorry you got hurt today...hope everything heals up. My Doberman did that to me once when doing a recall. It hurt but I was glad he had such gusto. He just laughed at me. LOL. We had to be a little more careful after that.

 

[JoeLacy]

I wouldn't have minded it as much if it would have been my dog that knocked me down. I didn't like this dog in the first place, now this. My dog park closes for 3 weeks, that should give me some time to heal. There are other parks but I will cut her time out there in 1/2 now.

Yes, walking her last night was like putting on my favorite shoes. Very comfortable, easy to slip on and just fit. If she knew I was hurt or not I don't know but she didn't ask for much other than belly rubs which I'm always glad to provide.

Interesting there was another black tri aussie out there. This was a very large female at 63 lbs. I saw some of the same characteristics I see in Peyton and spoke to the owner some. The owner told me her aussie thought of herself as a lap dog which sounds familar.

Peyton has a habit of pawing in her water bowl. The other Aussie owner said that her Aussie does the same. The other Aussie played a little but showed some of the shyness that Peyton does sometimes. The owner told me that was something her dog started later in life. I saw her on the leash and she was dragging the owner down the sidewalk.
I asked her if she had taken her Aussie to obedience class, she said yes, both basic and advanced. The owners excuse was that her Aussie was "headstrong." I left it at that, knowing full well the answer for so called "headstrong".

I make Peyton earn getting into the dog park, when she pulls I make her sit to calm down a little, then we take one step forward. If she pulls we move back and she's made to sit again. Each time I take her to the dog park she gets better.

I just took Peyton out to go potty. She stops at the top of the stairs until I release her. When she gets to the door she sits to have her leash put on, then rings her bell. I open the door and she waits until I release her after I go out first. She does not need a command for most of this, usually just the releases. I doubt that other Aussie does this, my guess is that the owner has not worked with her dog at all.

It was interesting yesterday morning. Peyton did something minor and I turned my back on her. She went behind a wall, then peeked around the corner. Turning my back seems to get the point across.

When I feed her, I need to stay close to the kitchen, if I walk away, she tends to follow me. She will leave her food if she thinks I'm leaving the room. When I walk out the door she stays at the front door. If I open the door leading to the garage, she's the first one out and the first one to the door of the car. She is a go-go dog now and this is exactly what I wanted.

Once in the car, she sleeps mostly. When I start to get out of the car, she waits until I release her to get out. I don't have to worry about her jumping out of the car before I'm ready or before her leash is on. I don't think I have told you guys all this, but it's some other examples of how well she is coming along.

Clearly there are dogs that do more amazing behaviors and maybe we'll get to that someday. My main focus right now is a highly controllable dog under the most adverse conditions. We live in the heart of the cicty with city dangers, safety and under control is job one.

When I say she's perfect I mean she's perfectly controllable for what I want her to do. If I ever teach her to spin, play dead, sit pretty and so on, this much less important to me than her living with me as a house dog in the city.

As I look back, it would seem what I saw in the dog pound that day was correct. My intuition appears as though it was correct. She is a highly sensitive, intelligent dog that just needed some guidance and if given the guidance might become a super dog. She went from knowing NOTHING to where she is today.

I love the title of her story. "Dog Pound stray to Super Dawg" and you, Carrie and Diane are the supporting cast in her story.

BTW, I have a Buster cube maniac on my hands, couldn't they make those in softer plastic? LOL

 

[Jynx]

ok Joe,,I am wanting to send my very bad full of you know what,,german shepherd puppy to you for training))))))))))))

You've done such a wonderful job with this girl,,you should be very very proud of BOTH of you..just think what most likely would have happened to her if YOU hadn't taken her.
Nothing good I'd imagine..)

Keep up the good work and definately keep us updated on peyton's progress!
diane