How can I stop this?

[amymarley]

Chug, again, I am passionate about animals, and sometimes (most times, I have come to realize my posts come out bad). Sorry! I am sooooo not talking about YOUR wife, just giving an example, I don't mean to suggest your wife would do any harm to you, that was not my point..... So please understand that, I don't want to go there either, and I don't think that of you or your wife. So please don't think that.

I guess I was just trying to portray how some people here think of their animals. We are not all wack jobs, with dogs (or other pets), we are real life people, with lives, who happen to love animals. I don't think you are a bad person, why else would you even take the time to look here and post your problems. I just hope you find good will with your family, yourself and your dog. That's all I was trying to say, please, don't take my words wrong....
Amy

 

[chugalug]

Chug, you are also referring to shows from 40-50 years ago. The entire concept of what a 'pet' is has changed since those shows came out with their over-dramatic scense of canine feats of wonder and independence.

Pretty much it boils down to this: You love your dog, you feed him well, you walk him and that's all great. It's more than some people do for their dogs. However, it's plain to us and you as well, that this dog NEEDS more attention than it's getting. You said that you've had labs before that weren't this needy. Maybe you should do this dog a favor and give him to a home that is happy to let him inside to sleep at the foot of their bed and find a more independent one, less needy one.

Zoom, you are so right. Although I'm not that old, I realize now that is precisely where my values concerning dog ownership and expectations from a dog stem from. I have been fortunate in that the last 28 years, these expectations have been met and met extremely well. My former dogs were heroes and each will always hold a special place in my heart.

I hear exactly what you are saying and believe me, I am considering your advice very carefully.

Because I always raise my dogs from pups, it's like a lucky dip as to what you get. Sure, parental observation may provide temperal insight but not personality. It's my in my dogs personality that he is needy and very easily distracted. I don't mind the distraction thing and can live with it without any difficulties.

My dilemma is that I love this dog so much and I wish I could snap my fingers and for him to become independent but I know that's not going to happen. Upon further reflection, I love my dog enough to let him go. It's only a new realization for me and it's going to take me some time to actually doing it though.

 

[Julie]

Also, Zoom (I agree), and others, I was trained by trainers who has those t.v. trainers train them (long sentence), and let me tell you in REAL LIFE, those dogs went first class (Benji, for one) all the time. They were not stuck out doors and vunurable to the elements. They had hotel suites and everything. The dogs you seen on t.v. were not even "sleeping" outside, it was a set in a studio.

Of course it was set in a studio. And you make a good point, these dogs were not yard dogs peeking in a window to see what their "loyal families" were doing and yearning to be a part of the scene.

 

[Sheba]

Tessa, look you don't understand me and I don't understand you and I certainly don't want to understand your point of view. If you don't have a solution, then you are a problem so please buzz off and stop filling my thread with your drivel.

The same goes for the rest of you that have a distorted view of the boundary between human and canine. I'm here looking for an answer and not to listen to you pontificate or to lecture me how I should be loving my dog.

Escuse me? Are you saying we should all lock our dogs up outside and let them be ignored and abused mentally all day and night?Well, not gonna happen!

 

[blue]

Easy there Sheba calm down and read all the posts to the end then respond.

 

[Julie]

My dilemma is that I love this dog so much and I wish I could snap my fingers and for him to become independent but I know that's not going to happen. Upon further reflection, I love my dog enough to let him go. It's only a new realization for me and it's going to take me some time to actually doing it though.

Well chugalug, if and when you decide to rehome your dog I hope you interview and research any prospects well. You know your dog could end up in a far worse situation than what he is dealing with now.

I just wish I were closer, because he sounds like a wonderful dog.

Best Wishes,
Julie.

 

[amymarley]

Zoom, you are so right. Although I'm not that old, I realize now that is precisely where my values concerning dog ownership and expectations from a dog stem from. I have been fortunate in that the last 28 years, these expectations have been met and met extremely well. My former dogs were heroes and each will always hold a special place in my heart.

I hear exactly what you are saying and believe me, I am considering your advice very carefully.

Because I always raise my dogs from pups, it's like a lucky dip as to what you get. Sure, parental observation may provide temperal insight but not personality. It's my in my dogs personality that he is needy and very easily distracted. I don't mind the distraction thing and can live with it without any difficulties.

My dilemma is that I love this dog so much and I wish I could snap my fingers and for him to become independent but I know that's not going to happen. Upon further reflection, I love my dog enough to let him go. It's only a new realization for me and it's going to take me some time to actually doing it though.

You sound like a good man, and you said your self you are a parent... that means you did not snap your fingers and your children became independent.... they learned, watched, and became who they were because of what you installed in them. The same goes for your pets. As for letting him go, that's up to you and your family. If the time is not right, well, then it's just not right and I am sure you will figure out what to do and what is right for your "whole family." Good luck and please keep in touch and let us know. Regardless of what you decide, you can always come here to talk.
Amy

 

[Zoom]

I am very glad that you can make realizations about things like this. I know it's terribly hard to think that you are not the best home. It feels like a personal insult. Please know that all of our advice has been out of concern for you as well as your dog. Dogs that feel ignored for too long often start to develop worse behaviors than leaving nose prints on the glass. Chewing siding, digging, barking, jumping the fence...

Everyone runs into that 'one dog' that just doesn't work. Mine was a 6 month old black lab we had when I was 4...sounds remarkable simliar to yours actually, (outside dog always wanted in, etc) except that he jumped the fence, we got him back and found out a month later we were moving and couldnt' take him with us.

 

[Dani]

I read through most of this, and this all honestly made me think. On the one hand, I can see that you care for your dog, and interact with him daily. But than, I don't see why he has to be outdoors, and why he gets yelled at for wanting to be inside, with his family. Muddy paw prints on the porch, and all that good stuff is what having a dog is all about. And it's embarassing when he's at the window when guests are over? I don't understand... is it wrong for people to know you have a dog? And if he looks so pitiful, why can't he be inside?

There are ways to keep him off the porch; a training refreshment, invisible fencing, bitter apple... but it doesn't really address the issue. Your dog wants more attention to be fully healthy mentally. And it isn't needy for a dog to want to be where his/her people are. It is completely normal, and honestly, I would be disappointed if my own dog didn't want to.

I don't know... I guess what I'm saying is, if the image of your house etc. is more important than your dog... than something needs to be changed.

I'm not some "new age" person whose dog gets everything. But she does stay inside with us, has toys, and her own sleeping area. But most of all she has the company and love of her people. And that's all that a dog asks for

*I don't mean to sound critical by any of this. I understand you love your dog. Good luck to you, your family, and your dog.

 

[amymarley]

Chug.... if you do decide to let him go, we are here for you... so please let us know...what you decide.
Amy

 

[chugalug]

Well chugalug, if and when you decide to rehome your dog I hope you interview and research any prospects well. You know your dog could end up in a far worse situation than what he is dealing with now.

I just wish I were closer, because he sounds like a wonderful dog.

Best Wishes,
Julie.

Julie, I don't regret that we are not close because I have learnt so much from you, not only dog related stuff but how to be pleasant, respected and still ram home a point.

You are not wrong. He is as good as it gets for a lab... if it weren't for the neediness, there wouldn't be a problem. In fact, what started out as what I thought was a routine problem with the patio, turned into a tremendous insight. I don't know how I can thank all the wonderful people that desposited their value on this thread.

 

[chugalug]

I am very glad that you can make realizations about things like this. I know it's terribly hard to think that you are not the best home. It feels like a personal insult. Please know that all of our advice has been out of concern for you as well as your dog. Dogs that feel ignored for too long often start to develop worse behaviors than leaving nose prints on the glass. Chewing siding, digging, barking, jumping the fence...

Everyone runs into that 'one dog' that just doesn't work. Mine was a 6 month old black lab we had when I was 4...sounds remarkable simliar to yours actually, (outside dog always wanted in, etc) except that he jumped the fence, we got him back and found out a month later we were moving and couldnt' take him with us.

Zoom, if it weren't for you, I wouldn't have made it this far. I got so many misinformed, obnoxious and bigoted comments that I was loosing faith that I had come to the right place. But with you and Amy, I looked forward to reading your replies to my post that I really didn't care what others thought.

Even after all this, it puzzles me that if my dog is so unhappy that he doesn't present with any other behaviors that are consistent with boredom, frustration, unhappiness. I think of my dogs happiness often and I look for signs that he is unhappy. The only new realization from all this is the 24/7 need for love and attention.

Even as a young pup, he quickly learnt not to jump on people. I was amazed how quickly he stopped when other dogs persist for years. He breezed through basic training and can sit, drop, heel, fetch, talk, stay, come on command and does it each and every time. Despite his raging hunger after his daily walk, his food can be an inch from his nose but he won't eat unless he is given the "OK". He responds to 'OK' as a human would. It's a green light for him to do 'what it is that he wants to do but feels a need for permission'. I can sense each and every time he is looking for permission. But when it comes to the patio, he won't budge on that issue, not unless he has full and unrestricted access. Then what'll be next? Probably wants to trade his kennel for a spot in the house. The line's been drawn on that.

Boy, this is a tough decision because I know I'll never get a dog as good as him.

 

[amymarley]

Chug, I admire you... Please read your above post several times... esp. the very last line. If he is so good, can't you and your family come to a compromise? I think you have a lovely family, but you are torn between your house, home, wife and kids....maybe you need a family "discussion."
I don't know you or your family, but I have known people who just love their pets, but the family does not...... is that the case? If so, you have a hard road a head of you. Again, I just wish you the best. Keep in touch here. We are not miricale workers, but we try.
Amy

 

[southern_girl09]

I am glad you are thinking of whats best for the dog and not only thinking of yourselves. Thats what good owners are about. If you rehome him, I hope he gets the best home and all the love he can stand

 

[Molly_Moppet]

My dog lives outside. Yes she comes in occasionally when i'm here, but she LIVES out. There is nothing wrong with her, and there is nothing wrong with me. She's happy, healthy and mentally stable. The only vice she has is burying her bones in the flower bed. I don't know, but i get the impression that a lot of people on here are American. I'm Australian, like chugalug and i think i've come to the conclusion that our two cultures see dogs differently. Chugalug's dog is obviously well cared for, interacts with the kids and has no real behavioral problems, except for the porch thing. Seeing as the dog has never been inside, i doubt very much that he's feeling as left out as people think. If they've never had it then they never miss it. Not digging anyone here, but i've seen more neurotic INSIDE dog than i've ever seen outside ones. To suggest that someone rehome a much loved pet, just because he deosn't conform to some one elses idea of a PROPER owner, is ridiculous. Chugalug, keep your dog, if you love him. Fence the patio. Sorry, but dogs are dogs. They are NOT people. Most of the problems people have with dogs come from the fact that they treat them like something they're not. Yes they can be well loved family members, but the fact is that people come first. If it will cause conflict with your wife of 22 years, then your wife comes first. My mother is the same. Very houseproud and doesn't like the yucky side of dog ownership. When my dad married her, his dog went outside. It adjusted without any problems. He loved his dog, he cried when it died, but his wife came first, as it should be.

 

[Fran27]

I agree that it's two different cultures. Probably just a silly observation, but it would be much harder in the US anyway for most people to have their dogs outside as fences are almost non-existent.

Anyway, I also think that a dog that was outside all his life can't miss being inside, but they can want more human interaction, and I think it's the problem here. There are just dogs that need people more than the others, like my golden for example can't stand being seperated from us more than 10 minutes.

But I totally disagree with your last point... We all know dogs are not people. Sure, you'll see crazy people carry their dog around like they would carry a baby, but it's really not the norm. If we let the dogs inside it's not just because we think dogs need to be inside (and I don't think they all do), it's because we're being selfish and we want them with us all the time. I love the companionship of my dogs and I wouldn't want an outside dog, I just wouldn't see the point to it.

But either way, I think it's important once someone takes the responsibility to have a pet, to make sure that the pet's needs are filled too. And for lots of dogs, having companionship is one of those needs. I wouldn't push my cat away everytime she wants attention either, would you? It's really the same thing, and one of the reasons people really need to find a breed that matches their way of life when they get a dog, because a neglected dog can get seriously neurotic... inside or outside (not saying Chugalug's dog is).

Also, about the comments about people coming first, yes. But I think it's not always about the dog, but about how the person feels too. For people who love dogs and marry someone who asks the dog to stay outside, it would be like marrying someone who won't let you continue one of your hobbies because they don't want you to. Example, marrying a wife that won't let you go out with your friends for poker night or something. Would you marry someone who denies you one of the things you really enjoy? Marriage is a question of compromises, and of deciding which compromises spouses are willing to make, and which they are not. For some people, having pets is a hobby, something they can't imagine doing without, and in this case no compromise is possible. So it's really not about the dog, but about the people... in my opinion. Because after all, having a dog is a lot of a selfish thing too.

 

[Becca_]

I think its crazy to get rid of your dog! It sounds like this dog is deeply loved, it just cant be in the house. I to grew up on a farm, all but one dog was an outdoor dog. If it were me, I'd be introducing another dog or a puppy to this one for a playmate.

 

[tessa_s212]

I am obviously no help to your original question, so I will leave that alone.

I am a bit concerned with your dogs weight. He does appear healthy and happy, but I hate to see dogs overweight. Just as it causes health problems in people, it can do the same to dogs.

May I ask what you are feeding him? Perhaps we can suggest a food that would be more healthy. I may not know what foods are available in Austrailia, but there are many educated dog owners on this site that may be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

I have only scanned this thread, I will read it all later. I have a chocolate lab, she does live inside with me. Labs VERY MUCH family dogs. They need to be with their families. They don't usually do well living in a place seperate from their family.

If you don't want a dog that needs to be with it's family, I'm sorry, but don't get a family dog!

 

[Fran27]

Yeah I noticed that he seems a bit overweight too... Maybe more excercise would fix both problems?