How can I stop this?

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Zoom

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It very well could. Or the current dog could learn to accept it in time. Again, to use my own dogs to demonstrate, Sawyer wouldn't let Aubrey get within 3 feet of me at first, because he sees me as "his". He knows that I run the show and all, but he didn't want to share my attentions. But eventually, he calmed down some. He still has to be right on top of me whenever possible, especially if Aubrey's getting attention, but he's adjusted.

I think given time and the right introduction/continuation, it may work. Getting an older (2-3) year old spayed female might help as well, instead of looking for another male. Mixed pairs usually get along better than same-sex pairings.
 
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chugalug said:
And that you are, monumetally wrong. You simply have no idea nor evidently, a willingness to read before you throw in your unwelcome 2 cents.
[Chugalug]<<Doberluv, I walk the dog without a leash for an hour a day. If the dog decided that this is enough, he is free to run away at any time. I wouldn't chase him. I would respect his choice. To this point, the dog has decided that he wants to be with us.>>

Well now Chug........it seems you cannot keep track of what you post. Personally I think you are nothing more than a troll, and have wasted the precious time, and good will of the posters on this forum.

Good day to you sir, and my sympathy to your wife and children. And most of all to this poor dog.
 

chugalug

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Gwinnywillow said:
[Chugalug]<<Doberluv, I walk the dog without a leash for an hour a day. If the dog decided that this is enough, he is free to run away at any time. I wouldn't chase him. I would respect his choice. To this point, the dog has decided that he wants to be with us.>>

Well now Chug........it seems you cannot keep track of what you post. Personally I think you are nothing more than a troll, and have wasted the precious time, and good will of the posters on this forum.

Good day to you sir, and my sympathy to your wife and children. And most of all to this poor dog.

There's no need to call me names you tool. I never asked you to to post or asked for your opinion so I feel no guilt and if what you post you call good will, then you can politely keep it to yourself.

You misquoted me out of context and that's what I expect from someone so ignorant. Normally I'd welcome you to re-read, or in your case, a first time read of the obediance training that been undertaken but for now, phew good riddance.
 

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chugalug said:
There's no need to call me names you tool. I never asked you to to post or asked for your opinion so I feel no guilt and if what you post you call good will, then you can politely keep it to yourself.

You misquoted me out of context and that's what I expect from someone so ignorant. Normally I'd welcome you to re-read, or in your case, a first time read of the obediance training that been undertaken but for now, phew good riddance.
Chill out, man. I'm not trying to be mean, but you seemed to be the one that kinda started this whole name calling thing.
 

~Tucker&Me~

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Just want to clear up one thing. First, name calling doesn't make you look any better. So anyone who is tempted, please refrain. Second, if you consider getting a second dog, then you will have to deal with the consequences if it doesn't work out. What if the idea doesn't work and you now have to find homes for two dogs? Just keep that in mind when you make a decision. It may or may not work, so take a deep breath and really think it over before you take the plunge.
Hope everything works out!
~Emily
 

Zoom

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Chug, I'm going to politely ask you once more to refrain from name calling. You posted the thread, thereby requesting any and all of the opinions and/or help that has been offered. Take the advice for what it is, people concerned about your dog, and leave the epithets on your side of the screen.
 

smkie

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i cannot imagine a worse situation for a dog then to be outside the home and not allowed to participate with the family especially for a labrador that is intelligent and loving. for pete sake why have a dog? that is like dog torture. A dog is a pack animal and to be isolated makes them depressed, and sometimes leads to aggression. Do him a favor and find a home where he will be valued above the paw prints on the patio door..((((((shake head))))a dog is not a possesion, it is a living creature. that is my opinion. i am afraid a second dog would only want in as well and then you would have even more pawprints..dogs want their people that is what makes them the good company that we enjoy. A happy dog has a family around him..not to watch from afar.
 

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Zoom said:
Chug, I'm going to politely ask you once more to refrain from name calling. You posted the thread, thereby requesting any and all of the opinions and/or help that has been offered. Take the advice for what it is, people concerned about your dog, and leave the epithets on your side of the screen.
Zoom, if you want to appear fair then I suggest you be objective by calling preemptive offenders to account. You are right, I did post for advice and have repeatedly acknowledged it when advise was given. But when advice is disguised as soap box speeches, my BS detector goes off the scale.

EDIT : Just like the above post.
 
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Saje

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Please stop the name calling everyone. We don't tolerate that here. I'm sure everyone is capable of disagreeing without getting petty. Just because people don't agree doesn't mean they are ignorant. And I'd like to remind everyone that you can ignore a user. The feature is in your user cp.
 

Nobody's Fool

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"I walk the dog without a leash for an hour a day. If the dog decided that this is enough, he is free to run away at any time. I wouldn't chase him. I would respect his choice. To this point, the dog has decided that he wants to be with us"
Chug..... You said it yourself. The dog wants to be with you. He wants your companionship, your voice, your touch, your love. He simply wants your attention and affection.
Can't you try, even for one weekend, to keep him inside? My husband is a "Neat-freak" also, but when I brought Buddy home he allowed him in.....
I totally understand about the "dogs belong outside" rule..... but if it doesn't work for you and your dog, then maybe (terribly) you will have to find him a new home. BUT..... if you love your dog as much as I think you do, you will find a way to make it work.
My dad was a perfectionist..... everything in it's place, everything neat and clean..... yet he loved German Shepherds (talk about shedding!!!). We had one inside from when I was 7 until I left home at 20...... we just cleaned every day. When you truly love someone or something, you do what has to be done. (Watch "Turner and Hooch"...... neat freak meets slobbery, destructive dog and deals with it.)
I pray that you will be able to:
a) let your dog in to enjoy your "pack"
b) find a way to keep him from being unhappy and "staring in the window" (curtains??)
c) find a home for the poor pup, where he will be welcomed inside with open arms.

Yes, my dog is inside, he sleeps with me and rides in my car everywhere..... he is not my "child"...... he is my companion.
(BTW..... outside dogs are usually easy to housebreak. Keep that in mind.)

S.
 

Julie

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Nobody's Fool said:
"I walk the dog without a leash for an hour a day. If the dog decided that this is enough, he is free to run away at any time. I wouldn't chase him. I would respect his choice. To this point, the dog has decided that he wants to be with us"
Chug..... You said it yourself. The dog wants to be with you. He wants your companionship, your voice, your touch, your love. He simply wants your attention and affection.
Can't you try, even for one weekend, to keep him inside? My husband is a "Neat-freak" also, but when I brought Buddy home he allowed him in.....
I totally understand about the "dogs belong outside" rule..... but if it doesn't work for you and your dog, then maybe (terribly) you will have to find him a new home. BUT..... if you love your dog as much as I think you do, you will find a way to make it work.
My dad was a perfectionist..... everything in it's place, everything neat and clean..... yet he loved German Shepherds (talk about shedding!!!). We had one inside from when I was 7 until I left home at 20...... we just cleaned every day. When you truly love someone or something, you do what has to be done. (Watch "Turner and Hooch"...... neat freak meets slobbery, destructive dog and deals with it.)
I pray that you will be able to:
a) let your dog in to enjoy your "pack"
b) find a way to keep him from being unhappy and "staring in the window" (curtains??)
c) find a home for the poor pup, where he will be welcomed inside with open arms.

Yes, my dog is inside, he sleeps with me and rides in my car everywhere..... he is not my "child"...... he is my companion.
(BTW..... outside dogs are usually easy to housebreak. Keep that in mind.)

S.
Great Post! You said alot of things that I didn't get out.
Julie.
 
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chugalug said:
There's no need to call me names you tool. I never asked you to to post or asked for your opinion so I feel no guilt and if what you post you call good will, then you can politely keep it to yourself.

You misquoted me out of context and that's what I expect from someone so ignorant. Normally I'd welcome you to re-read, or in your case, a first time read of the obediance training that been undertaken but for now, phew good riddance.
Its possible to take a quote out of context but to misquote out of conext, is that possible?? Ill check with Michael Moore on that.

Im so glad you have chosen to take the high road in these posts and that you are not taking my knee jerk advice to rehome your dog.

There is obviously a culture difference between the USA and Australia, as well as a climate difference from my part of the country.

Of the labs you have had the one you have now seems to fit the description of every lab I have ever met, needy.
 
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chugalug said:
Even though I've had dogs on and off for the last 30 years, I'd never asked a true animal lover what sort of job I was doing. It never crossed my mind because I just did what all people did here. Our dogs were pets, we treated them well, they were loyal, we were loyal to them, we let them procreate and they all lived to ripe old ages for their breeds. We never once stop to ask if they were psychologically disturbed because they didn't sleep in our beds or eat in our kitchens or watch TV with us.

Coming here has been more of a shock than I could have imagined. It's like this whole world has opened up. It's almost like it's trendy to be childless or empty nested and have this neutered dog that's more an accessory around which your entire world revolves. While I can see this, I personally find it disturbing to live that way. Me, my wife and previous generations before us, all had pet dogs, took pride and lived in homes that were free of animal excrement. My children will as well and it appears totally to be their choice.

So, I really don't think that this world I just described is the benchmark against which all others are judged. To me, it's an extreme world and evidently it's one where it's inhabitants congregate around this website.
My dh is like you...no dogs in the house, etc.

To solve the problem, just pay plenty of attention to the dog on a schedule if you can. He can also have boundaries set. Dogs need boundaries, just like children or anybody else. If your climate permits, no reason he should be cooped up in the house anyway....

I do not judge people because they leave dogs outside. However, they should give them reasonable amount of attention. It seems by your posts you are doing that. This is my suggestion:

1. Train him to sit at the porch and stay. Give him treats when he does this.

2. Kennel train him so he will have his own den or space.

3. Put some type of toy in the yard like a thing he can chase and preoccupy his time....a luring toy is fun.

4. Kong toys are great attention breakers...stuff them with goodies to keep him interested in that instead of the patio.

5. Dogs like chasing squirrels instead of their humans sometimes....give him a chase toy in the yard....

6. Give him attention IF he stays off the patio. This is his praise for a job well done.

I do not let dogs sleep in our beds, or dominate the kitchen either. Culturally it is a no no in our family. (If it were left up to me I would pamper them profusely....howeve, I have to respect my dh too. I have to admit it is difficult to make my animals stay out if he wants them out....)

Your dog is fine but needs a distraction better than your patio.....Good luck.
 
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Molly_Moppet said:
My dog lives outside. Yes she comes in occasionally when i'm here, but she LIVES out. There is nothing wrong with her, and there is nothing wrong with me. She's happy, healthy and mentally stable. The only vice she has is burying her bones in the flower bed. I don't know, but i get the impression that a lot of people on here are American. I'm Australian, like chugalug and i think i've come to the conclusion that our two cultures see dogs differently. Chugalug's dog is obviously well cared for, interacts with the kids and has no real behavioral problems, except for the porch thing. Seeing as the dog has never been inside, i doubt very much that he's feeling as left out as people think. If they've never had it then they never miss it. Not digging anyone here, but i've seen more neurotic INSIDE dog than i've ever seen outside ones. To suggest that someone rehome a much loved pet, just because he deosn't conform to some one elses idea of a PROPER owner, is ridiculous. Chugalug, keep your dog, if you love him. Fence the patio. Sorry, but dogs are dogs. They are NOT people. Most of the problems people have with dogs come from the fact that they treat them like something they're not. Yes they can be well loved family members, but the fact is that people come first. If it will cause conflict with your wife of 22 years, then your wife comes first. My mother is the same. Very houseproud and doesn't like the yucky side of dog ownership. When my dad married her, his dog went outside. It adjusted without any problems. He loved his dog, he cried when it died, but his wife came first, as it should be.
Yes Americans are getting a bit warped...the dog or cat is now the new "child"...even have air conditioned houses, and what not....it's a big business here. We LOVE to pamper our pets....(I am warped myself...however, my dh will not let me go overboard).

I don't think it is bad to keep animals outdoors as long as the weather is not extreme....Australia is not too hot or cold is it?
 
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Mothergoose said:
Yes Americans are getting a bit warped...the dog or cat is now the new "child"...even have air conditioned houses, and what not....it's a big business here. We LOVE to pamper our pets....(I am warped myself...however, my dh will not let me go overboard).

I don't think it is bad to keep animals outdoors as long as the weather is not extreme....Australia is not too hot or cold is it?
Not warped.......educated about canine psychology. And educated about the responsibility of being a dog owner. Dogs are social animals, just as humans are social animals. The owner of a dog has a threefold responsibiltity that is assumed when getting a dog. That responsibility involves the physical, mental and emotional well being of the dog. Sure, some dogs can EXIST without human companionship for most of their lives......just as some kids get along without seeing their parents for most of the day. Of course the parents can bribe their kids with all kinds of "toys" to occupy their time. And the kids can find plenty of things to occupy their "free" time.....drugs and the like.

But a dog owner should not get a dog with the intention of giving it just the bare minimum of care. A dog should be gotten with the understanding that it is a pack animal, and with the full intention of taking it into the human pack. Of course to do so calls for involvement and work on the part of the owner---crate training, obedience training, house rules and the like.

A well cared for dog who has had all 3 areas of its life attended to is the equivalent of a two year old human child emotionally and as far as interaction with its human pack members. There are hundreds of people who are amazed to discover that their dogs have personality, and even a sense of humor once they begin to interact closely with their dogs. 90% of the joy of owning a dog is lost when the dog is relegated to being a "yard dog". If a person cannot give 110% to a dog, then that person should not own a dog. Same for people who think that kids can raise themselves, and not come out warped!
 

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I agree that Americans take some things too far also. I'll always remember getting flamed because I let my cats outside, for example. I think the minimal risk in my neighborhood is worth it for their mental and physical well being, but that's another topic. I think it's a lot about what the owners want honestly. How could someone believe that a dog is happier inside than outside? The dog would be happier outside with us living with them, but somehow that is something that is never mentionned, because we changed the rules because it accomodates us (that's not just Americans though). Then, lots of the people who say that dogs should not be outside are the same people who leave their dog inside alone for 8 hours a day. I'm not sure what's worse, really.

Anyway, I really feel that half the people who have dogs have them and do what they do with them (including pampering) because it makes them feel better, whether it's good for the dog or not. So it made me snicker a bit to see that we would act this way because we are more 'educated' about canine philosophy. But again, it's probably the same people who claim that cats are happier when they stay inside. And I really don't think that a dog enjoys being dressed either.

But anyway, I do agree that you probably enjoy a dog more when they live inside, and I think this is the main reason why most people have their dogs inside... and not because it's better for the dog.
 

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Chug you may be trying to fight a losing battle. Understanding that you have had labs all your life but as we all know each dog is indeed different, and yours just might be one that is an attention hound. I had a black lab that was just that. He was both inside and outside, though none of my dogs sleep outside, but when he was in he had to have you touching him the entire time or he just wasnt happy.

The eletronic fence might not be a bad idea training wise for a while, at least until you can get the dog to understand that the patio is off limits. And unless you are willing to spend all your time sitting outside training the dog not to come onto the patio, you are going to have a heck of a time. Maybe a fence around the patio if feasible is another alternative.

Also remember those here on this forum are very animal oriented. We tend to forget that their might be things beyond our control that may make it difficult or hard to do the same as others.
 
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Fran27 said:
I agree that Americans take some things too far also. I'll always remember getting flamed because I let my cats outside, for example. I think the minimal risk in my neighborhood is worth it for their mental and physical well being, but that's another topic. I think it's a lot about what the owners want honestly. How could someone believe that a dog is happier inside than outside? The dog would be happier outside with us living with them, but somehow that is something that is never mentionned, because we changed the rules because it accomodates us (that's not just Americans though). Then, lots of the people who say that dogs should not be outside are the same people who leave their dog inside alone for 8 hours a day. I'm not sure what's worse, really.

Anyway, I really feel that half the people who have dogs have them and do what they do with them (including pampering) because it makes them feel better, whether it's good for the dog or not. So it made me snicker a bit to see that we would act this way because we are more 'educated' about canine philosophy. But again, it's probably the same people who claim that cats are happier when they stay inside. And I really don't think that a dog enjoys being dressed either.

But anyway, I do agree that you probably enjoy a dog more when they live inside, and I think this is the main reason why most people have their dogs inside... and not because it's better for the dog.
Snicker away......perhaps someday you will be able to notice the difference in PSYCHOLOGY and philosophy. I really have no clue what philosophy dogs have as regards their association with humans.

However canine psychology is vital in living with and training dogs, and ending up with reliable, enjoyable pets. It certainly helps to be able to understand what triggers certain reactions in our dogs---fear, aggression, anxiety, etc.

Hhhmm, puts me in mind of "Mutley The Snickering Hound". Heheheh.
 

Fran27

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Fine, I used the wrong word, but it has nothing to do with the argument itself, being that 90% of people couldn't care less about dog psychology. On this forum, we do, but it's hardly the reason why people keep their dogs inside as a rule.
 

Julie

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Fran27 said:
I agree that Americans take some things too far also. I'll always remember getting flamed because I let my cats outside, for example. I think the minimal risk in my neighborhood is worth it for their mental and physical well being, but that's another topic. I think it's a lot about what the owners want honestly. How could someone believe that a dog is happier inside than outside? The dog would be happier outside with us living with them, but somehow that is something that is never mentionned, because we changed the rules because it accomodates us (that's not just Americans though). Then, lots of the people who say that dogs should not be outside are the same people who leave their dog inside alone for 8 hours a day. I'm not sure what's worse, really.

Anyway, I really feel that half the people who have dogs have them and do what they do with them (including pampering) because it makes them feel better, whether it's good for the dog or not. So it made me snicker a bit to see that we would act this way because we are more 'educated' about canine philosophy. But again, it's probably the same people who claim that cats are happier when they stay inside. And I really don't think that a dog enjoys being dressed either.

But anyway, I do agree that you probably enjoy a dog more when they live inside, and I think this is the main reason why most people have their dogs inside... and not because it's better for the dog.
Well, I think cats are happier when allowed inside/outside, and I think dogs are happier when allowed inside/outside. I guess in some circumstances this is not the safest alternative, but I agree with you.

My dogs were crate trained when they were young, but I no longer use it for that purpose. And even when they were young, during the day they would either be inside with me, or if I had to go away, they would be outside in the fenced yard. Believe me, all of my dogs would rather be in the yard during the day than in a crate. The crate was a helpfull housebreaking aid, but that is all the further it went. I would much rather see a dog running and barking in the backyard than stuck in a 2' x 3' crate all day long.

It really is very interesting to see some peoples views to protect their animals from what might happen, but I bet some of those same people give their own children more rope to hang themselves.

Thanks for this never ending thread, always so much to think about.

Julie.
 
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