cropped ears

[dr2little]

You do run across deaf dogs. Byrons first vet said he does it at least once a month but its usually in cockers.


not to mention some breeds like bassets that can not be cropped get told to have their ears tied back for so many hours a day.


But I forgott this is jsut because I cna't clean my dogs ears Too bad it didn't clear up for eitheir of the two vets or the cropper eitheir.

dr2little,so was it magic that cured my boys ear infections?

I think you have to go back and read my posts....your question tells me that you've only skimmed. Also, Rosie, the cropped Brussels in my siggy (I got her when she was 6-already cropped of course) had horrible problems with her ears, most likely her chop job of a crop was partly to blame....I kept her ears immaculately clean, she had terrible trouble with them until the day she passed.
George Burns smoked into his 90's...rare exception to the rule, you won't see me promoting smoking because he "got away" with it. There will be an exception to everything, regardless what the arguement but it does not justify cropping a whole group (breed) of dogs. Let's just be honest here (not you joce..but everyone), cropping is not and has never been about what's good for the dog, to say that it is..is just hogwash. It's done by humans for human reasons....(except in very, very rare cases)

 

[lastkid]

You can't compare cropping/docking to spay/neutering, that's totally apples to oranges.

Oh, I know. I actually agree. My point was that a neuter isn't always medically necessary, but people still do it. In some cases, removing testicles (or ovaries/uterus) would be the same as arbitrarily removing your appendix, just in case, or removing parts of the ear/tail, just in case. We're still "altering" the animal for our own reasons, whatever they are, and we're still allowed to choose whether or not we do. I know people who think spaying/neutering is unnecessary, unnatural invasive surgery. I'm not one of them, but...

I don't know. I guess I'm just getting caught up in the "medical justification" of this, and making totally arbitrary posts, when I don't even believe in cropping a dog. But I do think it's a personal decision, just like the kind of training you use. I'd push back against someone trying to make pure positive training mandatory, and I believe in positive training. I'm just stubborn that way. Bottom line, though, is that I do agree with you for the most part, dr2little, I don't want to fight with you. I just think that cropping/docking is a personal decision and people shouldn't be labelled cruel for having the procedures done. There are FAR worse things people can do to their dogs, and I'd rather fight against that than a crop/dock.

ETA to respond to this:

what's good for the dog, to say that it is..is just hogwash. It's done by humans for human reasons..

But... We have pugs and other extremely short-nosed breeds who can't even breathe normally! That's genetically altering a dog in an extremely harmful way, for purely cosmetic reasons. That's even worse to me than cropping or docking, which (if done right) shouldn't alter how a dog can perform daily activities.

 

[dr2little]

Oh, I know. I actually agree. My point was that a neuter isn't always medically necessary, but people still do it. In some cases, removing testicles (or ovaries/uterus) would be the same as arbitrarily removing your appendix, just in case, or removing parts of the ear/tail, just in case. We're still "altering" the animal for our own reasons, whatever they are, and we're still allowed to choose whether or not we do. I know people who think spaying/neutering is unnecessary, unnatural invasive surgery. I'm not one of them, but...

I don't know. I guess I'm just getting caught up in the "medical justification" of this, and making totally arbitrary posts, when I don't even believe in cropping a dog. But I do think it's a personal decision, just like the kind of training you use. I'd push back against someone trying to make pure positive training mandatory, and I believe in positive training. I'm just stubborn that way. Bottom line, though, is that I do agree with you for the most part, dr2little, I don't want to fight with you. I just think that cropping/docking is a personal decision and people shouldn't be labelled cruel for having the procedures done. There are FAR worse things people can do to their dogs, and I'd rather fight against that than a crop/dock.

ETA to respond to this:



But... We have pugs and other extremely short-nosed breeds who can't even breathe normally! That's genetically altering a dog in an extremely harmful way, for purely cosmetic reasons. That's even worse to me than cropping or docking, which (if done right) shouldn't alter how a dog can perform daily activities.

I don't post to fight with anyone, but to stay silent about something you believe in is not what forums are all about. I really don't understand why when someone responds to a post with an oposing arguement it's looked at as fighting, I have no beef with you or anyone here.
As for the pug thing...I couldn't agree more....that view holds true for so many breeds as they are all created for human purposes.

 

[smkie]

I will go home tonight and boot up "Hair" on the computer . . . you KNOW I've got it stored, lol!

i have complete faith in you Now where is that PIXIE STICKS!!!!?

 

[borgorn]

But... couldn't you say the same thing about spaying/neutering? Especially in regards to cancer issues. That's a major surgery that's primarily done for preventative reasons, just like a dock (only a two-day-old pup has about... 1/10th the discomfort/pain). A dog might get testicular cancer, he might not. He might have behavioral issues linked to testosterone production, he might not. He might father an unwanted litter, he might not. But why take the risk? Why not just pop 'em out? Same with removing dewclaws. A dog might tear it, it might not. If there's a good chance it will, take the things off before they cause a ton of pain. I'm much more comfortable with the idea of causing mild discomfort to a two-day-old puppy than I am with causing days or weeks of pain to an adult dog with a broken/cut, hard to heal tail, just as I'm more comfortable with spaying my dog than I am with dealing with heats and accidental pregnancies, etc. I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, just offering another point of view, at least on the docking half of this debate.

That is a good point. People will neuter/spay a dog to serve their purpose, but attack another person for cropping ears. If I were a dog I would rather have my ears cropped.

 

[borgorn]

There are other reasons for the spay/neuter than the possibilties of Cancer. There is no point in having an intact Bitch that could have an "oops litter" or a Dog that is going to go crazy everytime the Bitch around the corner is in Season........Unless of course you are Breeding from them.
So IMO you couldn't say the same about the Spay/Neuter

So you will alter the dog physically to make him act how you want him/her to act and not how they should naturally act. I think neutering is way more cruel than cropping ears. I can honestly say I never had a dog neutered.

 

[StillandSilent]

I would never crop a dogs ears, but mostly because I hate the way cropped ears look. I agree with some of the above posters. A person who goes to a reputable vet and has their animals ears cropped and a person who sets their dog on fire should not get the same label of "cruel". It cheapens the meaning. I also hate tail docking, but that is mostly because our dog was incorrectly docked by the previous owner and has problems with his pitiful little nub.
I have never actually seen a dog who messed up his tail out in the field as a result of not having it docked, but we did end up amputating a pit bulls tail at work after he tore it up on a kennel wall. After seeing how much he suffered, I can see why some people dock at birth.

 

[borgorn]

Funnily enough - No I do not!!

Nor piercing babies ears. Disgusting.

I have piercings my self, no way would I pierce a child.

All one and the same to me. Mutilation and tantermount (sp?) to abuse.

Well if circumsizing is so bad how come I don't remember mine? Does anyone remember theirs as being bad? Dog ears are the same. It is not some traumatic experience.

 

[borgorn]

And the benefits of cropping? Medical - bollox (scuse my french).

Again - illegal here, our dogs seem to be coping.. well 100%

We have already said the benefits of cropping. I trust my vet and the many other vets who say that cropping helps prevent ear infections, it will make it harder for another dog to tear or rip off the ear playing or otherwise. It makes them hear better and from more directions. And in some breeds makes them look so much better. You can say it's cruel but neutering seems to be more painfull.

 

[borgorn]

Hmmm.. Interesting:

carefully... partly because what you think you will get may not occur. I refer to the disappointing cases where the pup's ears have been cropped and yet, no matter what everyone tries to do, the ears won't stand erect!


To the above. I was told by one of the best ear cropping vets around. This guy is awsome. He did my dad's dogs ears and also my dobi. He says that the vet should know by evaluating the ear beforehand if the cartilage is strong enouph to stand on it's own if cropped.

 

[LabBreeder]

I've said my piece on the crop & dock issues...however the circumscion thing is definitely interesting. All I know is I saw a short video of part of one and progressive pictures taken during the surgery. It was NOT pretty, let me tell you! Bloody, screaming baby, losing sensations later in life vs. a weird looking p**is that girls may laugh at and that could get infected (or grossly dirty if not cleaned correctly). I'm still at a loss on that one. How does a guy know he's got less feeling if he was never allowed to feel what it was like in the first place? I want to have a boy but don't know about circumscision (sp?)yet.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

Does anyone else think it's funny that only dogs that get cropped ears for "medical purposes" are dogs that are "shown" or have a history of cropping (dobermans for example- you don't see labs with cropped ears because it helps with "ear infections").

I find that very interesting!

 

[borgorn]

LOL! Caren. It is just that I am so sick of people bringing hygene into the circumcision debate, call me old fashioned but I like men who shower everyday!

It took me all 9 months of my sisters preganancy with her son to convince her not to do it and she didn't! Yay for Grant!!

Ya but will he get ridiculed for your decision? When we were in high school in the gym shower there was a guy that wasn't circumsized. Everyone let him have it everyday. I don't think he ever got a date. Everybody knew in the school. If he got smart with anyone for any reason that was what instantly brought up. I would be mad at my mom if she did that to me.

 

[Roxy's CD]

I think it's because labs are waterdogs BP.

The basis is that drop ears keeps the water out..

I understand that much. LOL

 

[borgorn]

My son's 21 and was born during a time when most were still having it done. I couldn't justify handing over my tiny baby as my doctor couldn't provide me with any medical reason to support such a surgery. Let's just say, he learned how to properly care for what God gave him and today he's grateful that I didn't take something away that he could never get back....

What do you mean most people were still having it done? Like they don't now?

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

So you will alter the dog physically to make him act how you want him/her to act and not how they should naturally act. I think neutering is way more cruel than cropping ears. I can honestly say I never had a dog neutered.

I really completely disagree with this, and here is why.

When a dog is neutered (male or female) the drive to reproduce is removed from its life. It no longer feels the urges to roam, seek mates, breed, etc. These drives/frustrations are simply GONE from the dog's life.

Dogs are not like humans. They don't mourn the loss, or miss what they had or never had. The urge is just GONE.

To me, this is a KINDNESS to dogs, and in NO WAY cruel.

 

[borgorn]

I really completely disagree with this, and here is why.

When a dog is neutered (male or female) the drive to reproduce is removed from its life. It no longer feels the urges to roam, seek mates, breed, etc. These drives/frustrations are simply GONE from the dog's life.

Dogs are not like humans. They don't mourn the loss, or miss what they had or never had. The urge is just GONE.

To me, this is a KINDNESS to dogs, and in NO WAY cruel.

I strongly think if you were a male dog you would disagree.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

I think it's because labs are waterdogs BP.

The basis is that drop ears keeps the water out..

I understand that much. LOL

I was just using it as an example, Roxy....

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

But... couldn't you say the same thing about spaying/neutering? Especially in regards to cancer issues. That's a major surgery that's primarily done for preventative reasons, just like a dock (only a two-day-old pup has about... 1/10th the discomfort/pain). A dog might get testicular cancer, he might not. He might have behavioral issues linked to testosterone production, he might not. He might father an unwanted litter, he might not. But why take the risk? Why not just pop 'em out? Same with removing dewclaws. A dog might tear it, it might not. If there's a good chance it will, take the things off before they cause a ton of pain. I'm much more comfortable with the idea of causing mild discomfort to a two-day-old puppy than I am with causing days or weeks of pain to an adult dog with a broken/cut, hard to heal tail, just as I'm more comfortable with spaying my dog than I am with dealing with heats and accidental pregnancies, etc. I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, just offering another point of view, at least on the docking half of this debate.

I don't see myself ever cropping a dog, but I'm not interested in breeds that are cropped. I own a docked dog, I prefer the breed (Aussies) to be docked, and I feel that not docking would irrevocably alter characteristics about this breed that I love. I wouldn't want an Aussie with a long, flowing tail like a Golden. I want a dog that represents what this breed is and always has been. I want my wiggle butts!

Excellent point!!! There are ALWAYS possibilities.

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

There are other reasons for the spay/neuter than the possibilties of Cancer. There is no point in having an intact Bitch that could have an "oops litter" or a Dog that is going to go crazy everytime the Bitch around the corner is in Season........Unless of course you are Breeding from them.
So IMO you couldn't say the same about the Spay/Neuter

A POSSIBLE opps litter.