Teddy Bear 'Mohammad'

[Saintgirl]

I can't have empathy for murderous behavior, no matter whose shoes it's in, no matter WHY people want to kill someone. The fact that it's over something like a name for a teddy bear makes it even more disgusting to me.

I don't care what religion this is, I'd be equally disgusted if it were Christians or Buddhists doing this. It's a sick reflection of people, who think nothing of taking a life to honor something that they may (or may not have) read in a book or heard from a leader. Think for yourselves, people. I think most people, deep down, think killing is wrong.

I don't think any cultures should be forced into a more western way of life, but disagreeing with senseless murder is not ethnocentricism.

Good post RD!

The only reason I asked about the children who were the ones to actually name the teddy bear, the teacher only allowed the name was because religion has been used to justify why she was given such a harsh punishment. Yes, I understand that different values, beleifs, faiths were a factor in the decided punishment, but when does the world draw a line? I accept and admire a country who can have so much faith in their Religion, but I do not accept murder and violence. What if these children had been 13 or 14 and the punishment had been doled out to all of these children? Would it be right for people to say although I may not agree with their practises I have to respect their religious beliefs. I too respect their religious beliefs however I do not respect violent reinforcement.

What about the Taliban? Ohhhh, now I bet I've hit a nerve. Pashtuns are the dominant ethnic group in the Taliban, so should we excuse their behavior because of their religious beliefs and culture? Of course I realize that lashings and a hanging death due to worship of a false idol are a far cry from the Taliban, but my point is when as a WORLD not just seperate countries and nations can we stand up and say enough violence and killings- regardless of the belief systems in place?

 

[Lilavati]

You're right Saint. I would have been horrified if she'd been executed. I was appalled at the group rape victim being flogged. I was horrified at that girl in Iran being charged with murder and sentenced to death for self defense (the sentence has been commuted, but I'm still appalled).

Understanding, even empathizing (which is not the word I'd use) does not mean agreement or approval. I don't think the people who were offended, or who sentenced her were insane. I understand their motovations. It doesn't mean I agree, or think that those reasons are good enough to kill or beat someone. I just understand that they are not crazy. (I am also convinced, for reasons that would be too long to get into, that virtually no one, including those who sentenced her, ever really intended to kill her, or that religion was the only motovation.)

But extending the acts of a few ignorant people, in a he!!-pit of a country (this is Sudan we are talking about here, home of Darfur) to nearly a billion believers in a religion is unjust. Its not logical (I don't extend the acts of the Phelps clan, Timothy McVeigh, the Olympic park bomber, or your average snake handler to all American Christians, let alone all Christians). Its not even rational to do so. As for the Taliban, which I mentioned before, they were deeply ignorant, illiterate and violent men before they seized power in the name of God, and they continued to be ignorant, illiteral, violent and now power-mad once they had power. Do I understand why they acted that way? By and large, I do. They were ignorant, power-mad, violent fanatics who seized power and predictably, abused it. I understand that they felt themselves justified. I understand enough of what they believed to see how, if all considerations except one's own power and fanaticism were set aside, how they would think their acts were justified and holy.

I condemn them for that. Each of them is responsible for the horrible acts he participated in. I condemn the years of war and poverty that bred such men. I condemn the strand of extemist Islam that excuses it, and I even condemn the Saudi millionaires that funded schools to teach that extemism. But I don't blame 'Islam' or 'Muslims.'

To tell you the truth, I am equally shocked at people saying . . oh, its just their culture, we shouldn't judge . . . as people suggesting we convert them all at gun point. Both views are wrong, and both are fueled by ideology.

 

[Dizzy]

When did this become the question Dizzy thread? haha

Yes, I like to see something from someone's perspective.

I don't have to fully understand, or agree AT ALL, but I CAN see. Call it a gift haha

Look at their upbringing, their current life, the things informing their opinions and life.

I wouldn't be a good social worker if I was working with drug users/offenders etc if I DIDN'T or COULDN'T do that.

Doesn't mean I agree or disagree with crime or drug use

No more than I agree with lashing someone for naming a teddy bear


And in response to darkchild - erecting a statue of god is allowed?? Well blow me, I was always taught there were NO images of god.

 

[darkchild16]

Yea we have statues of him. And jsut becuase thats what you are taught doesnt mean thats the way it is here.

 

[MelissaCato]

Relevant to this disscusion.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20041215/article_02.htm

Ok, I read both links and totally confusing if ya ask me. It seems to me the watchtower claims to be only religious society to find scriptural guidance, at the same time condemns the Vatican for doing just that. And they change the doctrine of the Bible saying the truth is becoming. I could understand this to a point of forsight but to alter the Bible's contents on the word of God to me isn't right. Besides, I can't find or know of a single verse in the Bible that says Archangel Michael is Jesus Christ. But I do know of verses like in Hebrew 1 that say Jesus will sit at the right hand of God the Father. Hebrew 2 proves Jesus is the Judge and Ruler, soooo he cannot be the Archangel from what I read if JW believe in the English translation of the Bible. Now if they are reading from the Hebrew original Bible I could understand, but the websites don't suggest that or reference to it.
I do agree with them on Yahweh, but for JW to study or believe in Yahweh they need to drop the English version of the Bible and read from the original Hebrew written Bible. That's what's not making sense to me. We all know the english version is translated wrong from Hebrew.

 

[blue]

When did this become the question Dizzy thread? haha

Yes, I like to see something from someone's perspective.

I don't have to fully understand, or agree AT ALL, but I CAN see. Call it a gift haha

Look at their upbringing, their current life, the things informing their opinions and life.

I wouldn't be a good social worker if I was working with drug users/offenders etc if I DIDN'T or COULDN'T do that.

Doesn't mean I agree or disagree with crime or drug use

No more than I agree with lashing someone for naming a teddy bear


And in response to darkchild - erecting a statue of god is allowed?? Well blow me, I was always taught there were NO images of god.

Empathy should not be a way to excuse the actions of others. Because you can see why somebody grew up to become a child molester does not give the abuser an excuse for their actions.

You wouldnt be a good social worker if you couldnt or wouldnt show your clients they are responsible for their actions reguardless of the underlying conditions.

 

[Dizzy]

Empathy should not be a way to excuse the actions of others. Because you can see why somebody grew up to become a child molester does not give the abuser an excuse for their actions.

You wouldnt be a good social worker if you couldnt or wouldnt show your clients they are responsible for their actions reguardless of the underlying conditions.

You did say where I stated - having empathy isn't excusing or agreeing with actions didn't you?

 

[Dizzy]

Yea we have statues of him. And jsut becuase thats what you are taught doesnt mean thats the way it is here.

Well - isn't that interesting

Same religion - different ways of practicing it and interpreting the bible.....

I think that sums this subject up magnificantly.

 

[Dizzy]

ps - so what does god look like?

 

[sparks19]

ps - so what does god look like?

why are you always so smug....

Anyway I am sure she is referring to Jesus Statues...

 

[darkchild16]

thank you Sparks. And if you have looked at a crusafix you would know how people imagine God looking.

And because Im showing that shes wrong shes always smug when i prove her wrong.

 

[Dizzy]

why are you always so smug....

Anyway I am sure she is referring to Jesus Statues...

No - I said about putting up staues of GOD.

And darkchild said there are lots of staues of god - and I asked what do they look like.

I've never seen one.

 

[Dizzy]

thank you Sparks. And if you have looked at a crusafix you would know how people imagine God looking.

And because Im showing that shes wrong shes always smug when i prove her wrong.

So you're not talking about statues of god?

 

[darkchild16]

Well - isn't that interesting

Same religion - different ways of practicing it and interpreting the bible.....

I think that sums this subject up magnificantly.

I never said that. I stayed out of the debate if I remeber correctly I just wanted to correct the misstatement

 

[Dizzy]

This is the post I was referring to.

Originally Posted by Dizzy
It's their religion, and while it's probably extreme to us - it's no more of an outrage to them than if someone erected a giant statue of god in the heart of the bible belt really.
I know this isnt really that relevent to the discussion but I have to say something being born and raised in the bible belt.

Dizzy have you ever been to the bible belt? If you had you would relize how SO untrue your statement is. Where I am from you have statues of God everywhere. They are usually outside churches too. One of the big religious landmarks in my city here-which isnt the bible belt but all the same-is a window that somehow started to rainbow and it looks like a outline of the Virgin Mary. I knwo alot of people from N. Florida who come here just to see it. It is so common the only way I relized it wasn't down here as much is that they suddenly disappeared when I moved to South Florida. Just wanted to say that.

 

[darkchild16]

So you're not talking about statues of god?

To me since i do not really believe the whole religion thing I tend to use the words interchangably and they are used interchangably in different religions .

 

[Dizzy]

To me since i do not really believe the whole religion thing I tend to use the words interchangably and they are used interchangably in different religions .

Right...

So you're talking about crusifix's?

That's jesus though... not god... Ss far as I was aware you're not supposed to create an image of god (hence no statues of god).

When I asked what the staues look like, I was being genuine.

Believe it or not.

My point still, therefore, stands.

 

[darkchild16]

The crusifix is one example. Im trying to find an example of the one of God that I have seen.

Thats another one. But mostly you see the God part of this one in its own statue.

 

[Dizzy]

I think the original point was that christians don't have images of god and to a hardcore christian this is offensive, to a hardcore muslim naming a bear mohammed is offensive.

Darkchild - you have just nicely shown how there are variations in christianity as with ALL religions - and the MAJORITY are "normal" people who don't approve of this kind of act.

The point that THIS raises is that you can't bundle all these people into one cateory - just like you can't bundle ANY faith into one.

There are extremeists in ANY religion who will go above and beyond what is "necessary".

Look at the family protesting at soldiers graves..... They are following the word of god... so they think.

Which was my point... just because these people do that, I do not think ALL christians are "animals" or "uncivilised" or need "westernising".

 

[darkchild16]

I never said they needed to be westernized. But If this is a person that is not a member of their religion how can they dictate her life. And if it is such a sin why are so many people named Mohammed??? Its a bunch of BS if you ask me.