Teddy Bear 'Mohammad'

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by GipsyQueen, Dec 1, 2007.

  1. GipsyQueen

    GipsyQueen Active Member

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    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/11/27/sudan.bear.ap/index.html

    Just a little add on; In the German news they are saying that she was imprisoned for 15 days, but people in Sudan are protesting for her to be put to death.

    What are your thoughts on this? We had a huge discussion about this yesterday in school after watching it on the news in my politics class. Most people could only shake their heads and ask themselves - 'What has our world come to?'

    I asked myself the same question and could only shake my head because I think it is absolutely insane to want to put someone to death because she let her students pick a name, which happened to be Mohammad, a very popular name in the Muslim world, for their teddy bear. They see it as an insult to their prophet. Of course I am not Muslim so I see things differently - but still... What have we come to? It's a Teddy Bear! Thats not the only Teddy bearing the name Mohammad.
     
  2. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    It's bizzare . . . because its a common name in the Muslim world. People here name their children, pets and stuffed toys all sorts of religious names . . . because that's what most of the common names are. I've known both humans and dogs named John, Mark, Mathew, Michael, and Jesus (Spanish pronunciation). Perhaps animals and toys are not normal given human names in Sudan?


    And the saddest irony . . . I suspect Mohammed would have laughed and been flattered.
     
  3. GipsyQueen

    GipsyQueen Active Member

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    I would have thought the same thing. I mean it was a Christian school - they should have been honored.
     
  4. blue

    blue Jerk.

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    Im not realy suprised. Its a culture where the victim of gang rape can recieve 200 lashes.
     
  5. Puckstop31

    Puckstop31 Super-Genius

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    This is the true face of the greatest threat civilization has ever faced.

    I'll tuck this away for later.
     
  6. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    Seriously... it's a teddy bear.

    I was thinking of naming Fozzie, Mohammed, when I first adopted him. I'm glad I didn't! Sheesh
     
  7. blue

    blue Jerk.

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    20 lashes just for thinking it.
     
  8. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    i saw that a few days ago at work

    and when i think of it all i can think is... come ON
     
  9. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    It's their religion, and while it's probably extreme to us - it's no more of an outrage to them than if someone erected a giant statue of god in the heart of the bible belt really.

    I don't agree with it. Or justify it, but I do respect their right to their own religion.

    Like many religions on this earth I don't agree with ;)

    Even I would know not to name something mohammed, and she is a teacher working their, she should have be aware......

    Either way, poor woman.
     
  10. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    I don't know if anyone has ever been to vatican city, but you can't wear shorts there, you can't have a silly haircut, there are all KINDS of things you have to respect while you are there.....

    I don't think this is any different.

    I don't believe she was insulting Islam - but she was a little naive.
     
  11. Puckstop31

    Puckstop31 Super-Genius

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    So not being able to wear shorts is the same thing as being KILLED for naming a teddy bear? or the idea that if a young woman is raped, she is punished for it?

    Dizzy.... Please....
     
  12. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    No, its not. But two notes:

    1) This is Sudan, which regardless of religion, is a umm . . . not very civilied place might be the polite way to put it.
    2) Two, it was not so very long ago that people were burned at the stake for:
    a) Saying that the wine and bread at communion were not the literal flesh and blood of Christ but rather symbolic
    b) Asking if Adam and Eve had a navel (note, that's not answering, its ASKING)
    c) Being Jewish
    d) Being an old woman who likes cats
    e) Being unpopular with hysterical teenage girls (actually, that was hanging, not burning)

    And as for women accused of fornifaction (which in many cases included rape unless she could prove she fought tooth and nail and was willing to die for her virtue . . . and then it was still her word against a man's): well, burning, hanging, flogging, the stocks, and ostracism were all popular.

    This doesn't make it right, and simply comparing the outrages of one religion to another doesn't justify either. However, acts of stupid religious fanaticism are not confined to one religion, and in the past, ALL religions have been guilty of them. Particularly when we are talking about the hinterlands of a faith, where people make up for a lack of education and understanding of their own religion with militant enthusiam. (The Taliban in Afganistan? Most of them couldn't even read their own language, let alone classical Arabic). I'm not defending this . . . its stupid and cruel and more than that I believe that Mohammed (not to mention God) would be appalled. But I'm not sure that its evidence that Islam is a threat to civilization.
     
  13. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    She won't be killed for it...

    I can guarentee you that.

    And yes, I believe it is the same thing. Different punishments maybe ;)
     
  14. Puckstop31

    Puckstop31 Super-Genius

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    Other faiths have evolved into the 21st century. It is now Islams turn...

    As for what I quoted, I agree. That is, I agree until a idea of universal tolerance of everything 'forces' us to turn a blind eye to outrages such as this... To brush it off as, "to each their own". If a civilization is not willing to take a stand for its most basic principles, it neither can nor deserves to survive.

    You stand for something, or you stand for nothing....
     
  15. Puckstop31

    Puckstop31 Super-Genius

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    Yeah... Because she is in hiding. give that mob 10 seconds with her and see what happens.


    MAYBE different punishments? I cannot believe you are using THAT as your defence.

    Where do you draw the line then? Like I just said... You stand for something or you stand for nothing.
     
  16. GipsyQueen

    GipsyQueen Active Member

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    I agree, I think it really is the Islams time to evolve. A lot of Islamic countries are trying to evole but often they miss their chance. Currently there is a big issue between Turkey and Germany. About 7 months ago they arrested a boy who is 17 years old in Turkey for having sexual contact with a 13 year old girl from England. There is much more proof that he is innocent. They keep on putting things off. Well Turkey wants to join the EU - No one want them really. This in someway would have been their chance to show that they can strive with in European standards - but in some way they missed their chance. Just reminded me of this.
     
  17. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    I don't expect for one second for you to agree.

    Doesn't make me wrong and you right though ;)
     
  18. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    That is a great post.

    It is ridiculous to us, but not ridiculoous to them. It is a huge deal in Islam that nothing is accidentally worshiped, which is why there are these huge outcrys over things such as teddy bears named Muhammed and cartoons of Muhammed. It's offensive to them. However, that does not say that imprisoning her is right. It also does not say that what happens in Sudan is typical of all Muslims' beliefs or even typical of Muslim countries.

    One horrible example of taking the Qu'ran to extremes comes to mind. I can't remember where this was, but anyways... There was a house fire and two women came out of it, without their heads covered. The officers there to rescue them sent them back into the house to cover their heads and they both died. I'm sure that's where the story would end if it were reported here- "Two women die in fire because their heads weren't covered', however there was a huge outcry there, the officers were punished. just because something horrible like that happens in a Muslim country does not mean that the actions taken are the actions of the majority of the people or even of the way the government is supposed to run.

    That and there are so many schools of thought within Islam to try and say an incident iwth a teddy bear is proof that Islam itself needs to westernize is a bit naive. If you study Islam for even just a little time, one of the first things you should notice is that you cannot define most beliefs as Islamic. They're too different! There are basics, yes, such as the fact that there is only one God and Muhammed is his prophet, but the other teachings and practises vary so much. Also, the next thing I noticed was how similar Islam is to Chrisianity.

    Obviously certain humanitarian changes need to be made, but I see no reason that they should be forced into the Western way of doing everything. Isn't that just a touch ethnocentric? Why is our way the best way? No, I'm not talking about killing people over teddy bear names, but addressing some comments.
     
  19. GipsyQueen

    GipsyQueen Active Member

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    I agree, every single country has it's own culture - just like every religion. Most of us don't really understand how they think, they think differently than us - Which shouldn't be considered bad. BUT there are however, some things are not - and shouldn't be accepted because we are in a modern world where certian things need to be changed because we, the people as a whole have changed and evolved into something that we weren't 1000 years ago. I'm not saying that that our way - what we consider normal is the way to be. I disagree with many things that 50 years ago we considered unexeptable and are now happening on an hourly basis.
    I think there is so much more behind that teddy bear.
     
  20. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    This, I agree with :)
     

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