but wait! only pit bulls attack!
- Thread starter elegy
- Start date
L
Well, if it's not a characteristic in the APBT profile then there are some poor breeders and some poor owners...which we all agree on. I don't know why you are defending the pit bull against me when I have nothing against them. You should be taking your opinions and facts to those that can change BSL.
I've yet to meet an agressive pit. The only one's I've seen have been very friendly, even though they were raised by some not-so-great owners. They were not trained, but were not abused or treated badly so they were nice. The only time the female showed any "aggression" was after she'd had a litter and everyone kept messing with the pups...but that's to be expected from her in that case. These people were poor breeders who really knew very little about conformation standards and what the breed should look like...but the dogs were nice.
I've yet to meet an agressive pit. The only one's I've seen have been very friendly, even though they were raised by some not-so-great owners. They were not trained, but were not abused or treated badly so they were nice. The only time the female showed any "aggression" was after she'd had a litter and everyone kept messing with the pups...but that's to be expected from her in that case. These people were poor breeders who really knew very little about conformation standards and what the breed should look like...but the dogs were nice.
L
If you feel you are "banging your head" why bother speaking to me? 
I've stated my views and been around the bush with others, I do not wish to start with you.
I do understand the problem, and I do (duh!) own a dog. I've already stated that BSL isn't fair and something should be done about it. So, instead of debating on here why not go out and state facts to court and government officials who can do something about it.
I've stated my views and been around the bush with others, I do not wish to start with you.
I do understand the problem, and I do (duh!) own a dog. I've already stated that BSL isn't fair and something should be done about it. So, instead of debating on here why not go out and state facts to court and government officials who can do something about it.
R
I hear this all the time... "pits are not supposed to be human aggressive". Well, yes, that statement is true, but just because they are not SUPPOSED to be human aggressive doesnt mean that most of them or all of them are not. I am sure back in the days of dog fighting, pits werent human aggressive, but thats not so much true today. There is a trend of breeding pits for guard work, not dog fighting. Pits are becoming more human aggressive and less dog aggressive. Some of the most popular pit bloodlines are mixed with mastiff blood to create a larger pit bull. What were mastiffs used for? GUARD WORK!! The pits that are not human aggressive are game bred ones, and how many game bred pits are there now days? Very few...
Yes, pits have been and are blamed for attacks, and they are viewed in a different light than labs, goldens, pointers, hounds, etc. But I dont think its a good argument that they arent supposed to human aggressive, because its not as true as it once was. Pits are being used as guard dogs now. They are becoming human aggressive, period.
Pits are supposed to be dog aggressive, but a ton of them arent. They get along very well with other dogs. Same goes for human aggression. A lot of them ARE human aggressive eventhough they werent originaly bred to be that way.
Yes, pits have been and are blamed for attacks, and they are viewed in a different light than labs, goldens, pointers, hounds, etc. But I dont think its a good argument that they arent supposed to human aggressive, because its not as true as it once was. Pits are being used as guard dogs now. They are becoming human aggressive, period.
Pits are supposed to be dog aggressive, but a ton of them arent. They get along very well with other dogs. Same goes for human aggression. A lot of them ARE human aggressive eventhough they werent originaly bred to be that way.
pit bull mastiff crosses are NOT PIT BULLS. they are bandogges. they are mixes. they are MUTTS. they are NOT PIT BULLS even if they have hung papers saying that they are. you cannot compare the pit bull to a mastiff mix.
yes, there are people breeding pit bulls to be guard dogs. yes, there are people beating and starving and torturing their dogs to make them mean. yes, there are people deliberately breeding aggressive pit bulls. yes.
but the majority of pit bulls? not deliberately bred to be aggressive. not tortured. not meant to be guard dogs. the majority of pit bulls getting into trouble? they're just your average joe scatter-bred, byb pit bull, maybe with one of those mythic jeep or gator or ofrn bloodlines way back.
of the 92 pit bull related fatalities between between 1965 and 2001 a whopping 5 were the result of dogs gotten with the intent of them being guard dogs.
unfortunately, it seems that the vast majority of pit bull breeders breed with no mind to temperament one way or the other. they breed for size, for color, for that hideous "low-rider" look that's so popular. but that doesn't mean that there are not thousands upon thousands of pit bulls in the shelters all across this country who are not perfectly reasonable representations of what this breed is.
yes, there are people breeding pit bulls to be guard dogs. yes, there are people beating and starving and torturing their dogs to make them mean. yes, there are people deliberately breeding aggressive pit bulls. yes.
but the majority of pit bulls? not deliberately bred to be aggressive. not tortured. not meant to be guard dogs. the majority of pit bulls getting into trouble? they're just your average joe scatter-bred, byb pit bull, maybe with one of those mythic jeep or gator or ofrn bloodlines way back.
of the 92 pit bull related fatalities between between 1965 and 2001 a whopping 5 were the result of dogs gotten with the intent of them being guard dogs.
unfortunately, it seems that the vast majority of pit bull breeders breed with no mind to temperament one way or the other. they breed for size, for color, for that hideous "low-rider" look that's so popular. but that doesn't mean that there are not thousands upon thousands of pit bulls in the shelters all across this country who are not perfectly reasonable representations of what this breed is.
L
Well, you have your "humble" opinion and I have mine. Do you mean to say that you know everything about Pit Bulls? Did you know that the NAPBTA condones euthanasia of pit bulls that display dog to human aggression?
Regarding aggression in the breed: DOG to DOG aggression IS a characteristic of most terriers, including the APBT, BUT IS 100%, completely different from DOG to HUMAN aggression. Any APBT that displays dog toward human aggression in any form, unless saving the life of their owners, should be euthanized. The APBT is not a guardian breed and should never act like one.
So, do you think they are wrong?
http://www.apbtconformation.com/temperament.htm
Don't forget to read what they say Pit Bull owners should do as an ambassador to the breed.
Regarding aggression in the breed: DOG to DOG aggression IS a characteristic of most terriers, including the APBT, BUT IS 100%, completely different from DOG to HUMAN aggression. Any APBT that displays dog toward human aggression in any form, unless saving the life of their owners, should be euthanized. The APBT is not a guardian breed and should never act like one.
So, do you think they are wrong?
http://www.apbtconformation.com/temperament.htm
Don't forget to read what they say Pit Bull owners should do as an ambassador to the breed.
This is going to throw everyone for a loop, as I have protective and guardian breeds. My son has been considering getting a pit bull for my 2 year old grand daughter. I told him no way.
When he asked why??? I told him. "The majority of the pitts I have seen in Texas have been bred to be, what I would consider a dog I would never trust around my granddaughter". I would never allow him to take that chance, and I don't feel Todd has enough experience to own one. Plain and simple, he doesn't. Even if he did grow up with Terriers, Rotties, Danes, Filas. If he should get one that is not genetically sound, or aggressive we would be looking at major problems. I wouldn't recommend a Rottie or Fila either.
Now before you flip out, remember I do have a dog that is banned in many countries and both my large ones are on bsl lists. This does not mean all pitts are mean, or Rotties, ( I love mine dearly) I have met many of both that were adorable, and...unstable.
But, as much as we argue, there are the facts; more and more byb's seem to be coming out of the woodwork on all breeds. I don't care if it is a Lab, a Golden or a Rottie. Breeds are being ruined that were once perfected; they are not what the original breed standards were. Why, because of greed, abuse and pure laziness on the owners part. And, also, we must not forget the Macho Image.
You have no idea how many idiots have told me to feed the Danes and Roxie gunpowder to make them mean. My neighbor, Spikes owner, wanted me to tie Brutus out in the back and beat him everyday, this would make him protective.
These are the people that are getting our dogs killed. Not to mention, the other idiots that are so afraid of dogs they overreact or don't give a Sh*t and just jump in the yard with them. Until, there are less people in the world, less unstable bred dogs and owners, we are going to have this problem...not to mention the lack of hype from the media.
What the answer is...I'm still working on it. In the meantime, I will do everything within my power to protect my dogs, and my granddaughter.
As I have said before on this forum...instead of arguing, which, if any dogs should be on the BSL list, we need to pull together and figure out how to protect our beloved dogs. We as owners, that do work hard at taining and socializing our dogs, need to pull together instead of arguing. It isn't accomplishing anything. It didn't save one dog today. We should be spending time on how to correct the problem. Let's find the answer people.
*** I am no way supporting the bsl of Pitties or any other breed.
When he asked why??? I told him. "The majority of the pitts I have seen in Texas have been bred to be, what I would consider a dog I would never trust around my granddaughter". I would never allow him to take that chance, and I don't feel Todd has enough experience to own one. Plain and simple, he doesn't. Even if he did grow up with Terriers, Rotties, Danes, Filas. If he should get one that is not genetically sound, or aggressive we would be looking at major problems. I wouldn't recommend a Rottie or Fila either.
Now before you flip out, remember I do have a dog that is banned in many countries and both my large ones are on bsl lists. This does not mean all pitts are mean, or Rotties, ( I love mine dearly) I have met many of both that were adorable, and...unstable.
But, as much as we argue, there are the facts; more and more byb's seem to be coming out of the woodwork on all breeds. I don't care if it is a Lab, a Golden or a Rottie. Breeds are being ruined that were once perfected; they are not what the original breed standards were. Why, because of greed, abuse and pure laziness on the owners part. And, also, we must not forget the Macho Image.
You have no idea how many idiots have told me to feed the Danes and Roxie gunpowder to make them mean. My neighbor, Spikes owner, wanted me to tie Brutus out in the back and beat him everyday, this would make him protective.
These are the people that are getting our dogs killed. Not to mention, the other idiots that are so afraid of dogs they overreact or don't give a Sh*t and just jump in the yard with them. Until, there are less people in the world, less unstable bred dogs and owners, we are going to have this problem...not to mention the lack of hype from the media.
What the answer is...I'm still working on it. In the meantime, I will do everything within my power to protect my dogs, and my granddaughter.
As I have said before on this forum...instead of arguing, which, if any dogs should be on the BSL list, we need to pull together and figure out how to protect our beloved dogs. We as owners, that do work hard at taining and socializing our dogs, need to pull together instead of arguing. It isn't accomplishing anything. It didn't save one dog today. We should be spending time on how to correct the problem. Let's find the answer people.
*** I am no way supporting the bsl of Pitties or any other breed.
Last edited:
We've done as much as I think we can in Ontario.
Thousands of dollars was raised to retain the lawyer Clayton Ruby. We are now awaiting the judges decision. (I donated a large chunk of money to one of the fundraisers in Gravenhurst as I could not attend their gathering)
Elegy is completely correct about APBT being bred for dog on dog aggression. NOT human aggression.
But of course there are obviously pitts that aren't good representatives of the breed. Just like any other breed. There are plenty of dogs that don't do what they were intended to to because as filarotten just posted, there are so many BYB's out there with totally different goals.
Even still, my back yard bred pitt is the perfect picture for the mental image of pitts being horrible guard dogs. Hades loves everyone. Literally, anyone can roll him over and rub his belly. He LOVES people.
My parents were weasy when I first came home with a pittbull. What about my niece and nephew? I have never had any problems, although I understand your sentiments completely fila. If the pitts in your area are bad representatives of the breed you definitely don't want them around kids.
Thousands of dollars was raised to retain the lawyer Clayton Ruby. We are now awaiting the judges decision. (I donated a large chunk of money to one of the fundraisers in Gravenhurst as I could not attend their gathering)
Elegy is completely correct about APBT being bred for dog on dog aggression. NOT human aggression.
But of course there are obviously pitts that aren't good representatives of the breed. Just like any other breed. There are plenty of dogs that don't do what they were intended to to because as filarotten just posted, there are so many BYB's out there with totally different goals.
Even still, my back yard bred pitt is the perfect picture for the mental image of pitts being horrible guard dogs. Hades loves everyone. Literally, anyone can roll him over and rub his belly. He LOVES people.
My parents were weasy when I first came home with a pittbull. What about my niece and nephew? I have never had any problems, although I understand your sentiments completely fila. If the pitts in your area are bad representatives of the breed you definitely don't want them around kids.
This is actually kind of comical. From what I see, everyone here is anti-BSL. So what's to argue about?
I think I see what you were trying to get at Labbreeder. The solution to the problem isn't pointing out attacks by other dogs.
But I think the original post was more of an observation about how pitts are given a bad rep by the press. I think that IS part of the problem though. If pitt attacks weren't sensationalized so much in the media, they wouldn't be getting so much condemnation and there wouldn't be BSL.
I think I see what you were trying to get at Labbreeder. The solution to the problem isn't pointing out attacks by other dogs.
But I think the original post was more of an observation about how pitts are given a bad rep by the press. I think that IS part of the problem though. If pitt attacks weren't sensationalized so much in the media, they wouldn't be getting so much condemnation and there wouldn't be BSL.
L
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2005
- Messages
- 4,940
- Likes
- 0
- Points
- 36
I think we should be stricter with leash laws and fines.
If your dog bites someone... Crap, it'll be darn well expensive!
You should have a permit to breed. A vet, and a behavioralist/trainer should come to your house and 'check' to make sure the dogs are sound and healthy. The people would have to pay a certain amount (to make sure they were financially secure, and a limit would be put on litters per year.
~Tucker
If your dog bites someone... Crap, it'll be darn well expensive!
You should have a permit to breed. A vet, and a behavioralist/trainer should come to your house and 'check' to make sure the dogs are sound and healthy. The people would have to pay a certain amount (to make sure they were financially secure, and a limit would be put on litters per year.
~Tucker
L
Here ya go:
A breed ban on the human race! Until all homeless/orphaned children are adopted into homes and have turned 18. No more reproducing under the age of 21 or over age 40 after the ban has been lifted. Only 2 children per household.
All humans that wish to adopt or purchase a dog or cat (purebreed or mix) should undergo a psychological evaluation and be required to take at least one course in "how to train your dog to be a model canine citizen".
If only this could be done without violating everyone's civil rights and making everyone angry. I don't think it will happen, or is a feasible solution, any time soon. I do kind of like the general concept though - Give all children and dogs/cats good homes.
I still say it could be feasible to request all current owners take a training course with their dog...perhaps paid by the government or local agencies to promote people taking the class at first. Future owners would be required to take, and pay for, their own training course with their soon-to-be dog. Get the basics of sit, stay, come, heel, lay down pat. Then have owners come in every 3 months to show the improvement their dog has made due to training at home. If the dog doesn't show improvement, or has slipped in his training the owner gets a warning that the dog must improve. If he isn't improved by the next session (3 months away) then the dog is placed in foster care. I know this wouldn't be able to apply to ALL dogs becaue not all dogs learn at the same rate...perhaps different courses for different breeds?
Hey, I'm just throwing some ideas out there that could help.
A breed ban on the human race! Until all homeless/orphaned children are adopted into homes and have turned 18. No more reproducing under the age of 21 or over age 40 after the ban has been lifted. Only 2 children per household.
All humans that wish to adopt or purchase a dog or cat (purebreed or mix) should undergo a psychological evaluation and be required to take at least one course in "how to train your dog to be a model canine citizen".
If only this could be done without violating everyone's civil rights and making everyone angry. I don't think it will happen, or is a feasible solution, any time soon. I do kind of like the general concept though - Give all children and dogs/cats good homes.
I still say it could be feasible to request all current owners take a training course with their dog...perhaps paid by the government or local agencies to promote people taking the class at first. Future owners would be required to take, and pay for, their own training course with their soon-to-be dog. Get the basics of sit, stay, come, heel, lay down pat. Then have owners come in every 3 months to show the improvement their dog has made due to training at home. If the dog doesn't show improvement, or has slipped in his training the owner gets a warning that the dog must improve. If he isn't improved by the next session (3 months away) then the dog is placed in foster care. I know this wouldn't be able to apply to ALL dogs becaue not all dogs learn at the same rate...perhaps different courses for different breeds?
Hey, I'm just throwing some ideas out there that could help.