but wait! only pit bulls attack!
- Thread starter elegy
- Start date
L
Ok, what's the point of this? We all know that dogs of any breed (or mix) can bite. Are you so ticked off that you feel the need to bring in other breeds that haven't been as exposed as pits have? No, pits are the only one's that bite, but they are the one's that get exposure because of what they were originally bred for and how some current breeders and owners treat/raise them. How many people buy a poodle, golden or lab and train it to be a vicious guard dog? Not to many I'm willing to bet. But people do buy pits, german shepherds and dobermans to do this and then don't train them correctly and the dogs end up attacking someone/something.
Like you said, dogs bite. I would like to know why you want to make other breeds out to be "bad" because of "bad owners/breeders". Pit bulls have had a bad rap, but why would you want another breed to go through the same thing. You didn't like it; it's unfair; places are banning pits, etc. Why would you want another breed, or multiple breeds, to go through the same thing?
Like you said, dogs bite. I would like to know why you want to make other breeds out to be "bad" because of "bad owners/breeders". Pit bulls have had a bad rap, but why would you want another breed to go through the same thing. You didn't like it; it's unfair; places are banning pits, etc. Why would you want another breed, or multiple breeds, to go through the same thing?
Yes were well aware of the fact that our dogs can and do bite but I have yet to see a yard raided where they find 20 poodles on chains with tread mills and the like. It isn't the dog it is what people get them for. There are so many responsible Pitbull owners out there who truly got the dog for the love of the breed and have no agression problems because they wouldn't dream of allowing their beloved pet to fight and be hurt. When asking a question about why do they get that rap then ask yourself who owns them and why ? Very seldom do you hear stories of the dedicated owner because unfortunantly there are not enough to go around. I have met many here and love to see it because I to think pit bulls are beautiful animals and I know they can be the sweetest dogs. I know that they are big slobber you to death babies if they are treated right.
because i'm tired and i'm frustrated and i'm sick to death of threads like "no wonder pit bulls look bad" and on and on and on. i'm sick of the comments like "90% of pit bull owners are irresponsible". i'm sick to death of bsl. i'm sick of people hating my dogs. i'm sick of how freaking STUPID people can be. i'm sick of the comments about how we only hear about pit bull attacks.
that's why.
because i love my dogs so much it makes me cry sometimes and i want them to have the same chances in life that all the other non-discriminated against breeds have. i want people to understand that it's not just my dogs with their big heads.
because i don't want to have to be afraid that somebody's going to pass a law that's going to get my dogs banned or killed. because i want to be able to take my happy wagging dogs out in public without people giving me dirty looks and crossing the street.
because i can't understand how in a forum dedicated to people who love dogs, there can be people saying the things they do about pit bulls.
because i love this breed more than anything else on earth. because they are the most special and important beings in my life right now.
that's why.
that's why.
because i love my dogs so much it makes me cry sometimes and i want them to have the same chances in life that all the other non-discriminated against breeds have. i want people to understand that it's not just my dogs with their big heads.
because i don't want to have to be afraid that somebody's going to pass a law that's going to get my dogs banned or killed. because i want to be able to take my happy wagging dogs out in public without people giving me dirty looks and crossing the street.
because i can't understand how in a forum dedicated to people who love dogs, there can be people saying the things they do about pit bulls.
because i love this breed more than anything else on earth. because they are the most special and important beings in my life right now.
that's why.
do you honestly think those people in those articles bought their labs or their golden retrievers or their spaniels to be vicious guard dogs? and yet, their dogs bit people. because they're DOGS. because they weren't managed properly, controlled properly, contained properly. it had NOTHING TO DO WITH BREED. that's the point. the whole freaking point.
it's not about breed. it's not about getting any other breed in trouble.
they don't get the exposure because of their background. they get the exposure because that's the cool thing to do in the media. they're media darlings right now. it used to be german shepherds. then it was dobes. what'll it be when all the pit bulls are dead?
the media cannot be counted on to present an accurate picture. you should know that. if it bleeds, it leads. it's about attracting viewers and readers and money. not about accuracy or spreading correct information.
pit bulls were CULLED for being human aggressive for crying out loud. if they bit their handler in the pit they were KILLED. how does that translate into today's attack dog? how does that translate into guard dog? that's how much this breed has been warped. if it can happen to the pit bull, it can happen to any other powerful breed.
most dog attacks are not the result of people training their dogs to be vicious. most pit bull attacks have nothing to do with druggies or gang bangers or thug wanna be dogfighters. they have to do with careless human beings who don't train or socialize their dogs PERIOD.
a dog who has been through obedience classes is something like 90% less likely to bite than a dog who hasn't been. THAT'S the point.
we get so hung up on breed. on which breeds are good, which are bad, which are going to bite. we forget the breed is secondary to the hands of the owner in which the dog has been placed.
it's not about breed. it's not about getting any other breed in trouble.
they don't get the exposure because of their background. they get the exposure because that's the cool thing to do in the media. they're media darlings right now. it used to be german shepherds. then it was dobes. what'll it be when all the pit bulls are dead?
the media cannot be counted on to present an accurate picture. you should know that. if it bleeds, it leads. it's about attracting viewers and readers and money. not about accuracy or spreading correct information.
pit bulls were CULLED for being human aggressive for crying out loud. if they bit their handler in the pit they were KILLED. how does that translate into today's attack dog? how does that translate into guard dog? that's how much this breed has been warped. if it can happen to the pit bull, it can happen to any other powerful breed.
most dog attacks are not the result of people training their dogs to be vicious. most pit bull attacks have nothing to do with druggies or gang bangers or thug wanna be dogfighters. they have to do with careless human beings who don't train or socialize their dogs PERIOD.
a dog who has been through obedience classes is something like 90% less likely to bite than a dog who hasn't been. THAT'S the point.
we get so hung up on breed. on which breeds are good, which are bad, which are going to bite. we forget the breed is secondary to the hands of the owner in which the dog has been placed.
OMG! This is eye opening...
You know what I thought was funny about most of those links... Not one of the headlines had the dog breed in it! If there is ever an attack with a pitt involved "KILLER PITTBULL" is somewhere in the headline.
Isn't that funny..
I'm glad you posted this elegy. As a pitt owner I've given up personally. No matter how many people meet my little guy and love him, no matter how many people in school see how well behaved he is and no matter how many people try to fight BSL, it doesn't seem to matter.
I totally agree with you. But not to be a downer, but I don't think it really matters. Even dog people on this forum have taken this the wrong way... let alone people who aren't dog lovers.
I'm with you elegy but I don't think it really does any good, and I'm sorry to say it.
You know what I thought was funny about most of those links... Not one of the headlines had the dog breed in it! If there is ever an attack with a pitt involved "KILLER PITTBULL" is somewhere in the headline.
Isn't that funny..
I'm glad you posted this elegy. As a pitt owner I've given up personally. No matter how many people meet my little guy and love him, no matter how many people in school see how well behaved he is and no matter how many people try to fight BSL, it doesn't seem to matter.
I totally agree with you. But not to be a downer, but I don't think it really matters. Even dog people on this forum have taken this the wrong way... let alone people who aren't dog lovers.
I'm with you elegy but I don't think it really does any good, and I'm sorry to say it.
thank you for posting this. as an owner of dobermans - the point of this is that its not a breed that is bad. its irresponsible owners.
the fact that all these other breeds have bitten and harmed people - you never see them all over the news. you never see them plastered in the papers with headlines or catchy things like "KILLER DOG" or "MAULING". in fact, when a siberian husky killed a child in MA this past year or so - it barely made the news at all. when a woman broke up a dog fight that involved one pitbull, it made every single news station that night.
the point is - if you own dogs, and you love dogs, you should understand that pointing the finger at one breed is never going to work.
you guys are angry because other breeds were mentioned - think of how it feels when you live that EVERY SINGLE DAY. you are angry because you know the dogs that you have in your house, be it a lab or a golden or whatever - is a wonderful dog and you do your best to make them upright doggie citizens - how do you think it feels when the dogs in your house are dobes or pits or rotties? that NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO with those dogs, people will still label them and you are still subject to ridiculous laws not because yours are BAD, but because someone ELSE was irresponsible.
what it comes down to is this:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
-Pastor Martin Niemöller
What are you all going to do when YOUR BREED IS NEXT?
the fact that all these other breeds have bitten and harmed people - you never see them all over the news. you never see them plastered in the papers with headlines or catchy things like "KILLER DOG" or "MAULING". in fact, when a siberian husky killed a child in MA this past year or so - it barely made the news at all. when a woman broke up a dog fight that involved one pitbull, it made every single news station that night.
the point is - if you own dogs, and you love dogs, you should understand that pointing the finger at one breed is never going to work.
you guys are angry because other breeds were mentioned - think of how it feels when you live that EVERY SINGLE DAY. you are angry because you know the dogs that you have in your house, be it a lab or a golden or whatever - is a wonderful dog and you do your best to make them upright doggie citizens - how do you think it feels when the dogs in your house are dobes or pits or rotties? that NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO with those dogs, people will still label them and you are still subject to ridiculous laws not because yours are BAD, but because someone ELSE was irresponsible.
what it comes down to is this:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
-Pastor Martin Niemöller
What are you all going to do when YOUR BREED IS NEXT?
First of all I would like to say that I have a huge amount of respect for the responsible owners of pit bulls that do right by them, and try every day to make a difference in someones view of these wonderful animals
I cant speak for elegy, but I dont think that was the point she/he (sorry) was trying to make...
Its not fair for any breed to be banned, but you know what it happened and its happening..
I dont know how it is to be a pit bull owner, and right now I wouldnt want to be one..
Its soo unfair for people to judge animals on the way their heads are shaped or they way their face looks..
But if we as people cant even stop and look around us and not judge people then why not judge dogs
No, its not fair that they have to go through this, but they do, the only thing I can do is be there for the people that "I" know that have to go through this..and try to make a difference in the people that "I" meet...when it comes to this issue...
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As an Austrailian cattle dog owner I can tell you that they ought to be put on the agressive list as well as catahoulas because that is what they are bred for not just herding but defending and mine do. Therefore I say again it is bad owners and bad press because the pit next door loves to play with our dogs and there is no agression or the need to kill....... well maybe your frisbee is in danger he is by all means a big " Lick-a lotamous "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...og15.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/09/15/ixworld.html
ironically, someone JUST sent me this.
how do you corgi and BC owners feel?
ironically, someone JUST sent me this.
how do you corgi and BC owners feel?
I think Doberkim and Jess have made great points.
I would hope that other dog owners realize that it's not the breed. I hope that other dog owners would help in the fight. But as I said, it doesn't seem to be that way. People figure that it's not their breed so they don't have to worry about it.
As, Kim said, your breed could very well be next. Not to pick on labs in particular, but there have been 4 lab related attacks, (2 on people 2 on dogs) in my city in the past 3 months. I believe there is some type of "list" out there stating the breeds that are next in line for BSL. If we allow this "pittbull ban" to go through without a fight, it will most definitely not stop here.
As I've mentioned on so many other threads, if you want a dog YOU yes the PERSON should have to be certified and have to take some sort of dog behavioural course to get a dog. THAT will solve our problem. NOT banning "aggressive breeds".
I would hope that other dog owners realize that it's not the breed. I hope that other dog owners would help in the fight. But as I said, it doesn't seem to be that way. People figure that it's not their breed so they don't have to worry about it.
As, Kim said, your breed could very well be next. Not to pick on labs in particular, but there have been 4 lab related attacks, (2 on people 2 on dogs) in my city in the past 3 months. I believe there is some type of "list" out there stating the breeds that are next in line for BSL. If we allow this "pittbull ban" to go through without a fight, it will most definitely not stop here.
As I've mentioned on so many other threads, if you want a dog YOU yes the PERSON should have to be certified and have to take some sort of dog behavioural course to get a dog. THAT will solve our problem. NOT banning "aggressive breeds".
L
"because they weren't managed properly, controlled properly, contained properly. it had NOTHING TO DO WITH BREED. that's the point. the whole freaking point. " -elegy
That's what I'm trying to say. It's the owners that are making specific breeds look bad. Not the breeds themselves. I understand that pits are getting a very bad rap; but it's the owners and bad breeders that are causing it, not the dog. The dog is the outlet, unfortunately. I only know of a few people on here that are "against pits" and I'm not one of them. I like all breeds, big and small. I will give any dog a chance, but the second it is agressive towards me or my dogs I will do everything in my power to remove the dog from the situation it's in and the owners it's with. The dogs, and breeds, should not have to suffer due to irresponsible owners and breeders.
YES, there are irresponsible breeders and owners...you have to see that. That is the problem with why pits (and other so-called agressive breeds) are being persecuted. If more people took responsibility for their animals and trained them right and gave the socialization that was needed these dogs would not be biting people for no reason (or no good reason). Some of the bitten people bring it on themselves as well, regardless of training. A dog can only take so much poking, pulling, proding and meanness from another person/dog before it will strike back and defend itself. In those cases the dog should not be punished and the bitten person/dog has already been punished (by being bitten for their actions). (ex. - kid walked into a yard and started riding a chained up dog...or kid puts their face in a dogs face while it's eating in it's own fenced in yard and the kid came in uninvited)
I agree pits shouldn't be persecuted, but the bad owners/breeders should be. On the other hand, no breed should be persecuted because of a bite. If the dog is unable to be rehabilitated (or whatever they do after he keeps biting) then he may need to be pts. But don't condemn a whole breed.
That's what I'm trying to say. It's the owners that are making specific breeds look bad. Not the breeds themselves. I understand that pits are getting a very bad rap; but it's the owners and bad breeders that are causing it, not the dog. The dog is the outlet, unfortunately. I only know of a few people on here that are "against pits" and I'm not one of them. I like all breeds, big and small. I will give any dog a chance, but the second it is agressive towards me or my dogs I will do everything in my power to remove the dog from the situation it's in and the owners it's with. The dogs, and breeds, should not have to suffer due to irresponsible owners and breeders.
YES, there are irresponsible breeders and owners...you have to see that. That is the problem with why pits (and other so-called agressive breeds) are being persecuted. If more people took responsibility for their animals and trained them right and gave the socialization that was needed these dogs would not be biting people for no reason (or no good reason). Some of the bitten people bring it on themselves as well, regardless of training. A dog can only take so much poking, pulling, proding and meanness from another person/dog before it will strike back and defend itself. In those cases the dog should not be punished and the bitten person/dog has already been punished (by being bitten for their actions). (ex. - kid walked into a yard and started riding a chained up dog...or kid puts their face in a dogs face while it's eating in it's own fenced in yard and the kid came in uninvited)
I agree pits shouldn't be persecuted, but the bad owners/breeders should be. On the other hand, no breed should be persecuted because of a bite. If the dog is unable to be rehabilitated (or whatever they do after he keeps biting) then he may need to be pts. But don't condemn a whole breed.
If that was what you were trying to say, why would you even type this
Wouldnt you be ticked off, if everytime someone saw you and your labs walking down the street and someone said, "Those are vicious, keep them away"
How would you feel?? I know I would be angry, hurt and angry and hurting for my dogs that *I* know have done nothing but look a certain way...
Wouldnt you be ticked off, if everytime someone saw you and your labs walking down the street and someone said, "Those are vicious, keep them away"
How would you feel?? I know I would be angry, hurt and angry and hurting for my dogs that *I* know have done nothing but look a certain way...
why is it that irresponsible owners are making x breed look bad? why is that the chosen common denominator? why not irresponsible owners make irresponsible ownership look bad? or makes unleashed, free-roaming dogs look bad? or chained dogs look bad? or untrained dogs look bad? because those are often much more common denominators than breed.
the problem with pits is that there often IS no problem with pits. there's a big problem with ownership. absolutely. but it is not a breed-specific problem. all of those articles i posted- ALL of those dogs bit and not a single one was a pit bull. so why is it a pit bull problem? yes, lots of crappy people are attracted to pit bulls. and then we plaster them all over the media some more as the poster child of the evil nasty mean dog and even more people seeking evil nasty mean dogs go out and acquire them.
after the incident in california where diane whipple was attacked and killed by presa canario there was an unprecendented demand for the obscure breed by people wanting dogs like that one who killed the lady in california.
the problem with pits is that there often IS no problem with pits. there's a big problem with ownership. absolutely. but it is not a breed-specific problem. all of those articles i posted- ALL of those dogs bit and not a single one was a pit bull. so why is it a pit bull problem? yes, lots of crappy people are attracted to pit bulls. and then we plaster them all over the media some more as the poster child of the evil nasty mean dog and even more people seeking evil nasty mean dogs go out and acquire them.
after the incident in california where diane whipple was attacked and killed by presa canario there was an unprecendented demand for the obscure breed by people wanting dogs like that one who killed the lady in california.
L
Because, Jess, there was no definitive statement or question in the first post. There were only a bunch of sites about other breeds biting. Until the OP and others started posting, it was a smart alec post that was just showing that other dogs bite too. Well no DUH! Everyone knows that all dogs can bite...every animal can. The point of the post you quoted was to find out what the deal was and why the OP felt the need to drag in other breeds that HAVEN'T been ostrasized as pits have. Why would you want to have other breeds that have bitten go through the same thing pits are going through? I thought the point was to keep breeds, especially pits, from being labeled and banned.
Because if the media is going to report dog bites they should report about ALL dog bites. Maybe if the public actually got the WHOLE picture on dog bites they wouldn't be so prejudice about a certain breed. Maybe then people would realize "hmmmmmm, what do all these attacks have in common? Irresponsible owners?" Why do pits have to end up the martyrs?
L
Apparently the bites, or at least some of them, are being reported otherwise they wouldn't be on news sites. Granted you don't see near as many other breeds as you do pits because of the bad rap pits have gotten.
If bringing out all the bite articles would help to not ban a breed, then I'm all for it.
If it will only make the rest of the breeds (or any dog breed or mix) that have bitten also be banned then what will we do?
Will everyone have to give up their best fur friend even if he/she has never bitten someone? Should a petition be started to make it mandatory for all potential, and current, owners go through a course in 'how to train your dog'? If so, where does it get sent once it's signed?
No particular breed should have to be martyred in order to stop the sensationalism of a dog bite. What if this had started with poodles...what if poodles had been labeled "agressive"? Would you all still be as upset even though it's not your dogs breed? If so, why not have everyone get together and try to help stop breed banning??
If bringing out all the bite articles would help to not ban a breed, then I'm all for it.
If it will only make the rest of the breeds (or any dog breed or mix) that have bitten also be banned then what will we do?
Will everyone have to give up their best fur friend even if he/she has never bitten someone? Should a petition be started to make it mandatory for all potential, and current, owners go through a course in 'how to train your dog'? If so, where does it get sent once it's signed?
No particular breed should have to be martyred in order to stop the sensationalism of a dog bite. What if this had started with poodles...what if poodles had been labeled "agressive"? Would you all still be as upset even though it's not your dogs breed? If so, why not have everyone get together and try to help stop breed banning??