IF a middle school councilor

But it does have something to do with whether something is right or not. Even verbal communication with individuals who have certain disorders can be "wrong" in some cases where it wouldn't be with a normal child (for example, you can cause a meltdown in a child on the Autistic spectrum simply by using a metaphor that confuses and frustrates them, rather than speaking literally). On the other side, some people with certain disorders actually benefit from being touched while they're being spoken to or during stressful situations. Details do matter.

Yah, I'm gonna go ahead and call bull to "not saying anything about punishing him". The whole reason somebody goes to someone superior, before trying to talk like an adult and use your words, is so said person would be punished.

They could not punish him. But they won't just leave it, because now they have a parent getting into it watching that they'll be punished.

I have huge issues with people I don't know touching me. That being said something touching me or grabbing me (in a not forceful way) to get my attention isn't inappropriate in my books. And at 12 being called out for doing something would probably make me way more uncomfortable than the actual touch.

For me it isn't about not telling the superior. Has someone talked to this person and just said something along the lines of 'hey she's not comfortable with that.'? For me it's more about not starting a giant witch hunt over something as small as a touch on the knee. Just because you are a touchy person *again just touched the knee* doesn't mean you are sexual predator or are doing anything inappropriate.

i think that is horrid , Smkie is not a liar. period DOT. get it right , she is not out to get anyone in trouble for no reason . how could you actually think that .

the bottom line here is , Hyia felt uncomfortable and it was reported . as it should be.
if the school does not do anything then it is on them but SMKIE did THE RIGHT THING taking care of her girl.

is anyone reading her posts ? she said this person fully knows all Hyias issues and did the totally inappropriate things anyway. not just the touch but the whole bus issue.

I left it to the school's discretion to figure if it were appropriate or not. I didn't say draw and quarter him. When I told the social worker that is there for Hyia, and a part of the school staff, I said I am not out on a headhunt and I am not. I want them to know that I did feel it was inappropriate imo and that his actions caused her more not less stress in hopes that they will address this with him, so that he never puts another child in the same position he put her. There is no need for touch in this situation and there is no reason ever for touching a girl OR boy there.

Yes I have but in my mind 'handled wrong' and 'inappropriate touching' are two different things. I haven't said anything else this entire thread because there are too many to reply to so I answered the first post. Is it a red flag? Do I find it inappropriate?

No I do not consider a touch on the need and being close *which you would have to be to touch the knee* a red flag or inappropriate.

My only issue is it looks like it's turned into a giant 'bad touch' witch hunt on this guy and I don't feel this was 'bad touch' in the sense that the school is probably now going to have to handle it.

When I was PAID to "understand and deal with" children who had psychological disorders, a small part of what I was PAID to do was physically restrain ("hug") children with Autism during intense or stressful emotional situations. That was and still is considered appropriate and beneficial conduct in that particular context. Now, turn around and post a generic hypothetical, "a staff member at school put his arms around my daughter and held her close to his body" without ANY context what-so-ever. Sounds a bit more "creepy" when taken out of context, you think?

The issue that is the first and foremost most important part is that he told me "the bus is a trigger" and that I should pick her up and there I was standing in front of the building for a half hour, and then he personally put her on the bus. THat is purely incompetent. I started this thread because I wanted to know what others thought about the touch. I hope they do look at how he handles special needs children in the future because setting them up to fail isn't in the job description. So I hope the school addresses that fact before they look at how the whole thing began.
. What happens to him and how the school deals with it is not business.

I think she provided a bit more than that, but we'll leave that alone. But if you want a direct answer to your scenario, yes, I would find that inappropriate based on those facts. Creepy? That's not my word.

Psychological disorders, seizures, various other things might REQUIRE physical RESTRAINT. A school guidance counselor calling a student into their office for questioning/chat should NEVER require that type of touch. And if it did, it should not be done alone behind closed doors.

I must have missed what the disorder(s) is(are) with the young girl. I am very sorry about all of it. How very stressful.

Smkie;

I am so sorry this has happened and that the fallout hurt Hyia the way it did. This man sounds like he was trying to establish dominance over her, not in a sexual way. I do not think it is appropriate. In psychiatry we are taught to never, ever touch anyone. As a mental health professional you are not in a parental type role. Touching patients, at all, ever, is considered crossing professional boundaries and can get you in a lot of trouble.

Touching is not forbidden because of sexual concerns, but because it alters the therapeutic relationship, and damages ones effectiveness.

Just because I don't touch patients does not mean that I am not warm and supportive. It just means I don't touch them. It seems like the same rules should apply for this professional counselor.

Why do you go to a superior? To get the person spoken to/in trouble, or to give a compliment. You do NOT go to somebody's superior for the shits and giggles. Period DOT. (wtf does that mean, exactly? Am I using it right?)

THat is how I saw it.
I went to his superiors over the whole thing, including and first and foremost, the bus he put her on. What kept my mind unrest is how wrong I felt what he did was, and by asking people here that I know have experience with schools, with preteens, teachers, and other parents, I would glean perspective of how serious or not what I saw and heard was. THis is my second generation of children to be mentally and physically supportive to. I was a scout mom, from tiger to eagle as well only those that have been a scout parent will know exactly what kind of dedication that takes or how many parents and leaders you build relationships with that involve directly your child. I am not one who invites unnecessary drama into my life, it is too hard of a struggle to begin with, and what energy I have left, is sent to far more peaceful places. I did however think the topic very important. I thank all of you for your replies, and your moral support. and to those that sent Hyia a vibe and some love, bless you.

To report incidents to be investigated . To get to the bottom of things. What else should she do , because obviously he did not follow through on what he recommended (not riding bus) what would make her go to him to tell him her concerns because he did not get it right the first time and who is to say he wouldn't completely screw it up again?

If you have a problem with someone at a school , that is what you do. going to the teacher will not do anything but bring repercussions down on the child.

I dont know how old you are or if you have dealt with the public school system , but it aint easy and you have to be the childs advocate , especially when dealing with the special ed system. it is a doosy.

Now on to Period DOT. means that what ever is said before that is the truth. no questions asked truth.

seriously? I think you have a very limited view on life if this is why you see people speaking to supervisors. I supervise many people--and I certainly want to know if something is feeling uncomfortable for a family or child. I can't address it if I don't know about it--whether it is to help the family see if from the staff perspective, or vice versa.

As a parent--I speak to a supervisor to share concerns, and information--maybe to help them see the world that we as parents are dealing with. I have a situation right now that needs to be discussed--not to get anyone punished, or praised...but to help them see that the way the situation was handled caused great hurt to us as a family. I would not want it to happen to another family.

In the past I have dealt with very significant issues, not to punish anyone--but again to bring light to a situation, to make sure it does not happen to anyone else. I could EASILY have gone to court, brought it to the media, etc. I did not. I dealt with it --discreetly and effectively, as did the school administrators. No one was "punished".

To add to what Baxter said: Sometimes an isolated incident is just that......isolated, unintentional, harmless. (as in Fran's case in which it was reported, discussed, and resolved)

Sometimes it's a PATTERN of behavior, but the pattern will never be brought to light without speaking up and reporting issues.

I still can't believe a hand on the knee is such a big issue.

you don't touch patients? talk about missing out on an enormous part of healing, physically and emotionally. I get that some people have an irrational fear of touch, and believe in the boogey man at every turn, but touch by others is a completely normal part of being human. I think people should learn to deal with it, professionals and everyone else.

A touch on the knee to say, hey, this is serious, are you lying is much different than gently running your hand up their thigh and whispering into their ear softly so they can feel your hot breath.

One is creepy, one is not. One is a perfectly normal part of being human AND in a position of authority. Are they allowed to look at people? we know what looks can do to people? can they use voice inflections? those can convey meaning and seriousness and denote authority as well? How about just a monotone computer voice over a loudspeaker? Would that be a better way to deal with them?

I don't have an irrational fear of touch, or a fear of being molested. I just have a personal bubble.....

I haven't read all the replies, but *I* would have more of an issue with someone that close to my face calling me a liar than with the hand on knee, tbh.