IF a middle school councilor
- Thread starter smkie
- Start date
Its not a sexual place to me per say. But it is a part of my body that people don't touch. I mean, not even family members (aside from babies and kids grabbing onto my knees) touch the inside of my knee. It's just...weird. Sort of like the base of my neck or small of my back or my side. Those aren't sexual touches, but I don't want people touching me there.
I'm not totally averse to friendly touch gestures. My forearms, hands, shoulder, etc. That's cool. I wouldn't feel okay with someone touching any part of my body while reprimanding me, even if it was "just" a verbal reprimand.
That's just me personally though.
I'm not totally averse to friendly touch gestures. My forearms, hands, shoulder, etc. That's cool. I wouldn't feel okay with someone touching any part of my body while reprimanding me, even if it was "just" a verbal reprimand.
That's just me personally though.
She's not talking about the back of the knee, where it bends. But the side of the knee that leads to the inner thigh. That's a very tricky/ticklish spot and not at all one I would have been comfortable being touched in at that age, or heck, even now by anyone that was supposed to be in an authority position. That's straight up sexual harassment to most HR companies.
And at the end of the day, it made Hyia very uncomfortable and escalated an already difficult situation and THAT is the real issue here.
And at the end of the day, it made Hyia very uncomfortable and escalated an already difficult situation and THAT is the real issue here.
I didn't read all 15 pages of this...
But if she was uncomfortable, why not take her back to the counselor with you present and explain to him the situation? It really seems entirely too simple to explain to the counselor that the child was not comfortable with the level of physical contact he employed.
Do *I* think it was inappropriate in general? No. But if this particular child was uncomfortable, he should be informed of that. I don't see any reason to go above his head and report his behaviour without speaking to him first. But, that's just me.. I'm very confrontational when I have a problem with someone.
But if she was uncomfortable, why not take her back to the counselor with you present and explain to him the situation? It really seems entirely too simple to explain to the counselor that the child was not comfortable with the level of physical contact he employed.
Do *I* think it was inappropriate in general? No. But if this particular child was uncomfortable, he should be informed of that. I don't see any reason to go above his head and report his behaviour without speaking to him first. But, that's just me.. I'm very confrontational when I have a problem with someone.
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I don't see how it's hard to understand. If my boss called me to his/her office for a reprimand, got into my space nearly nose to nose, stared straight into my eyes, told me I was a liar, and THEN placed his/her hand on my leg.......or ANYWHERE on my body, I would think it was far past the realm of appropriateness. So because she is a kid it's supposed to be ok for that to happen? Noway.
It wasn't a touch of condolence, it wasn't a touch of comfort, it wasn't a touch of pervertedness, it was sheer dominating/intimidating behavior..........something a counselor of ANY KIND (let alone one for children!!) should not do.
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I don't see how it's hard to understand. If my boss called me to his/her office for a reprimand, got into my space nearly nose to nose, stared straight into my eyes, told me I was a liar, and THEN placed his/her hand on my leg.......or ANYWHERE on my body, I would think it was far past the realm of appropriateness. So because she is a kid it's supposed to be ok for that to happen? Noway.
It wasn't a touch of condolence, it wasn't a touch of comfort, it wasn't a touch of pervertedness, it was sheer dominating/intimidating behavior..........something a counselor of ANY KIND (let alone one for children!!) should not do.
Thank you. exactly.
I sent her back to school today. I told her don't make a big deal about anything. Go enjoy your day, and let it all go. Just remember if anyone in the future touches you and you don't want them to, all you have to say I do not like this touch, please take your hand off of me. That's all you have to say no matter what person it is. She is doing much much better. Have fun with field day and your friends.
I sent her back to school today. I told her don't make a big deal about anything. Go enjoy your day, and let it all go. Just remember if anyone in the future touches you and you don't want them to, all you have to say I do not like this touch, please take your hand off of me. That's all you have to say no matter what person it is. She is doing much much better. Have fun with field day and your friends.
I agree that the whole thing is wrong... Particularly for this
Child. I am just trying to picture a way that someone touches te inside of your knee. Hand on top with fingers on the inner part of the knee? Left hand reaching across to right knee? SOME people have referred to the touch as creepy so thats what I was trying to figure out
But that's not to be confused with me being OK with the situation
Child. I am just trying to picture a way that someone touches te inside of your knee. Hand on top with fingers on the inner part of the knee? Left hand reaching across to right knee? SOME people have referred to the touch as creepy so thats what I was trying to figure out
But that's not to be confused with me being OK with the situation
Left arm extended, palm on top of knee, thumb and fingers on inside. THe whole thing took a few seconds, about the time for my jaw to hit the ground, and then he asked her to leave the room. I was still registering shock of did I see what I thought I saw, did he just do what I think he just did...I had been in the er until 1 am, I was tired, and my wits were not about me, and I take total blame for not reacting faster than I did, it just kept replaying in my mind, along with her gestures, and my trying to assess her emotional state and if I though this was going to be ok, not ok with her attending graduation. A lot to process all at one moment, but what he did, stuck like a burr and replayed in my mind. I knew I didn't like it one bit, my mind thought INAPPROPRIATE ..don't do that and then she was gone but I wasn't sure why it bothered me as much as it did. IT just seemed wrong.
It was inappropriate. Not necessarily sexual at all, but definitely inappropriate.
FWIW, it probably would have made me either react aggressively, or shut down completely, especially combined with the in your face deal. At twelve, I probably would have had a very loud, large meltdown, at 24, I'd probably just shut down and not be able to function the rest of the day, but then, I was not a normal child, and I'm not a normal adult
FWIW, it probably would have made me either react aggressively, or shut down completely, especially combined with the in your face deal. At twelve, I probably would have had a very loud, large meltdown, at 24, I'd probably just shut down and not be able to function the rest of the day, but then, I was not a normal child, and I'm not a normal adult
THe melt down came as soon as she hit the door home. I have asked doctors why, and was told because home is the safe place where your still loved and liked, no matter what. That's why. It was an epic meltdown to say the very least but she is much much better now and I am so happy for her.
When I was watching the moonwalk for our Guild there was a boy who with a thick accent was bouncing and saying I LIKE FIELD DAY YES I DO>>I LIKE FIELD DAY and so does Hyia so for her to be able to attend is a two thumbs up.
When I was watching the moonwalk for our Guild there was a boy who with a thick accent was bouncing and saying I LIKE FIELD DAY YES I DO>>I LIKE FIELD DAY and so does Hyia so for her to be able to attend is a two thumbs up.
Nobody huh?
Very first sentence, whether you want to admit it or not, you started this thought process or at least wanted it introduced to the reader's mind. You could have of course said you met with a couselor who put a hand on your child's and thought it was unprofessional to have any physical contact.
but instead you were sure to lead with MAN placed hand's on a1 2 year old girl, on her leg on inside and front while leaning in, and you found out he's done this many times. Tell us all again you weren't trying to paint a picture of a creepy old guy with your little girl and other little girls. Intentional or not, you did.
and this was said
and this
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or course nothing sexual was meant by throwing in that since it was a male, that made it extra creepy. Why? is it extra creepy for a man? nothing sexual right?
of course the reasons you believe that have nothing to do with being sexual or not, it's just because right?
Very first sentence, whether you want to admit it or not, you started this thought process or at least wanted it introduced to the reader's mind. You could have of course said you met with a couselor who put a hand on your child's and thought it was unprofessional to have any physical contact.
but instead you were sure to lead with MAN placed hand's on a1 2 year old girl, on her leg on inside and front while leaning in, and you found out he's done this many times. Tell us all again you weren't trying to paint a picture of a creepy old guy with your little girl and other little girls. Intentional or not, you did.
and this was said
and this
and this
or course nothing sexual was meant by throwing in that since it was a male, that made it extra creepy. Why? is it extra creepy for a man? nothing sexual right?
of course the reasons you believe that have nothing to do with being sexual or not, it's just because right?
Since I was quoted, RTH, you'll note that I also said it would have been creepy if a female counselor had done it as well. It's creepy that the gesture was paired with a correction.
ETA: Also, if you had Smkie's life experiences being taken advantage of by older males at that age you'd understand her putting a slant on it, even if it wasn't intentional.
And yes, even if it wasn't creepy in a sexual way, as a dude working with children that counselor has to be an idiot to not protect himself from accusations.
ETA: Also, if you had Smkie's life experiences being taken advantage of by older males at that age you'd understand her putting a slant on it, even if it wasn't intentional.
And yes, even if it wasn't creepy in a sexual way, as a dude working with children that counselor has to be an idiot to not protect himself from accusations.
Because THAT is the world we live in, not the world we wish it was.
By the numbers, men commit sexual crimes far, far more often than woman. Little girls are the victim of such crimes far, far more often the little boys. So yes, I do believe people look at inappropriate behavior from male to a girl in a different light whether the male had sexual intent or not. Again though, it would have STILL been inappropriate if it were a Woman counselor, but you are right........people would have seen it differently even if they agreed it was inappropriate.
Profiling. It's wrong, but you can't help putting past experiences and prior knowledge into your judgment calls.
By the numbers, men commit sexual crimes far, far more often than woman. Little girls are the victim of such crimes far, far more often the little boys. So yes, I do believe people look at inappropriate behavior from male to a girl in a different light whether the male had sexual intent or not. Again though, it would have STILL been inappropriate if it were a Woman counselor, but you are right........people would have seen it differently even if they agreed it was inappropriate.
Profiling. It's wrong, but you can't help putting past experiences and prior knowledge into your judgment calls.
I think to me the additional creep factor from being a male comes from the fact that sexual abuse of a minor isn't something that happens when a random adult randomly sees a cute kid and exposes themself.
It happens when an adult in a position of authority exerts that authority in an inappropriate manner. Abusers typically don't begin exerting that control over children in a sexual way. They groom their victims psychologically by stripping their mental defenses and their ability to recognize or speak out against the abusive behavior.
I guess that's why I find that type of behavior creepy. It probably has to do with a combination of my own life experience and from working with high risk children and identifying factors like this in their lives, but internally it sends up a bunch of red flags. Not that he's necessarily a sex predator or anything like that. But it does indicate that he's an adult that willing to use their authority to cross personal boundaries in ways that are very uncomfortable for the kid. Having a background in mental health he had to know that's what he was doing to her. And it is a tactic that over time an abuser will use to break down someone's defenses. I find that creepy.
Does that mean I think the guy should be drawn and quartered? No, of course not. It probably wasn't sexual at all. He does need to be made aware that it wasn't a good decision, in case it was just poor judgement from a socially awkward person or something equally benign. It was damaging to the child. Touching children like that could be construed very badly for him and potentially ruin his career, and in the end there was no good reason for him to take a risk like that.
It happens when an adult in a position of authority exerts that authority in an inappropriate manner. Abusers typically don't begin exerting that control over children in a sexual way. They groom their victims psychologically by stripping their mental defenses and their ability to recognize or speak out against the abusive behavior.
I guess that's why I find that type of behavior creepy. It probably has to do with a combination of my own life experience and from working with high risk children and identifying factors like this in their lives, but internally it sends up a bunch of red flags. Not that he's necessarily a sex predator or anything like that. But it does indicate that he's an adult that willing to use their authority to cross personal boundaries in ways that are very uncomfortable for the kid. Having a background in mental health he had to know that's what he was doing to her. And it is a tactic that over time an abuser will use to break down someone's defenses. I find that creepy.
Does that mean I think the guy should be drawn and quartered? No, of course not. It probably wasn't sexual at all. He does need to be made aware that it wasn't a good decision, in case it was just poor judgement from a socially awkward person or something equally benign. It was damaging to the child. Touching children like that could be construed very badly for him and potentially ruin his career, and in the end there was no good reason for him to take a risk like that.