IF a middle school councilor

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by smkie, May 19, 2012.

  1. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    Man placed his hand on your 12 yr girl's knee on the inside and front while he leaned in to speak to her (telling her she is lying) would you find this a red flag? What would you think if you found out he has done this many times? He leans in and has direct eye contact, about a foot from your face at the same time. My jaw dropped, I know I did not like it at all and have reported it. What I want to know is if anyone else thinks that is way inappropriate?
     
  2. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    I think that's getting inside personal boundries quite a bit and it would make me intensly uncomfortable if it happened to me, never mind if I was 12.
     
  3. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    I told her I don't care if it is a police officer, a doctor, anyone, all she has to say is "that is inappropriate please do not touch me" and remove herself to the nearest adult and tell them why. YOU do not have to let ANYONE make you feel uncomfortable like that. I don't like it, not one bit. I have reported it and am glad she will not be seeing him ever again.
     
  4. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing or a red flag or that the person meant anything wrong by the gesture.. BUT I do think it's important to teach that if you EVER feel uncomfortable by that kind of thing, it's ok to say so and remove yourself from the situation.

    I went to a small private school and our academic counselor was really huggy, our school is the type is pre-k to high school so more chances then not, he had known us basically our entire lives.
    He never meant anything sexual or wrong with it, but when I was around that 12ish age, for some reason all of a sudden I didn't know what to do and hugging him made me uncomfortable. I said so and told my parents, we all spoke together and everyone got to explain their feelings.. he profusely apologized, my parents and I got to talk to him about it and get it all out in the open so it wasn't awkward and now, we laugh about it lol

    just saying, regardless of the situation..there is nothing wrong with saying that you are uncomfortable and teaching kids what to do if they do feel that way.
    It isn't burning bridges and in cases where it is just a misunderstanding, like mine was, getting it all out in the open helps things smooth over much faster and creates a safer school environment for all :)
     
  5. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    This. Coming from somebody who has been there, if he meant anything, it wouldn't have stopped at that
     
  6. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Whether he meant anything further by it or not, I think it's completely inappropriate. Heck, if two adults were in a business meeting and one did this to the other it most likely would be seen as unacceptable. Why, then, would it be ok for an adult in a position of authority to do it to a child?
     
  7. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    Well because adult-child relationships often inspire some kind of nurturing impulse and some people pair touching with nurturing... business meetings, are, well, business.

    I totally agree with Fran. He may be a creep but he didn't necessarily mean anything by it. Unless he was actually going for her inner thigh I don't think we can say he's a molester, that wouldn't be fair. But if she says she's uncomfortable he must back off immediately and refrain from doing it again.
     
  8. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    A meeting with a school counselor is business, IMO. And my point was more that I don't expect children to tolerate any type of touch that I wouldn't tolerate myself, if it makes them uncomfortable.

    Nobody has said he's a molester. But IMO that kind of touch between an adult and a child is inappropriate regardless of what he meant by it.
     
  9. filarotten

    filarotten Moderator

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    I also agree with Jesslough, I think it would have went farther if he meant something by it. I have touched many people's thighs or arm while taking to them during the years.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2012
  10. ACooper

    ACooper Moderator

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    Got to agree with Sass on this. In a school setting where it's prohibited for even FIRST graders to share a hug, (which I find sad BTW) a grown man putting a hand on the leg of a 12 year old girl and moving in close to her space like that IS inappropriate. Doesn't matter if he had ill intent........it's inappropriate behavior.
     
  11. -bogart-

    -bogart- Member of WHODAT Nation.

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    Yes. Thank god you did something about it. As a public school counselour he has to know to keep his hand off . Period . No excuses. I mean does he not watch the news and see how many sick freaks there are molesting kids and realize "hey maybe I need to keep my hands off them so i don't get accused" at the very least.


    Smkie hugs. To her as well.
     
  12. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    He may very well not have meant anything by it, but it does seem inappropriate, especially for a one on one meeting. I would think a middle school counselor would have more sense than that, I would have been uncomfortable too. Hopefully a talk with him will straighten this out.
     
  13. puppydog

    puppydog Tru evil has no pantyline

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    To me that smacks of bullying. I had a teacher who would do that and I lost it with him. He then told my parents I was difficult.
     
  14. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    That to me is really creepy. And it doesn't really sound like Fran's scenario where the councilor was just huggy because he cared a lot about the kids.

    He was combining a familiar/intimate touch with a reprimand. I love my kids and show them affection, but I don't do it as I'm reprimanding them. That combo by itself is weird. For it to be coming from an adult male school counselor? Just... doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth.
     
  15. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    I think what's sad and creepy is the fact that a person can't put their hand on someone without being called a ****ing creep and thought capable of molesting children.

    Why does everything have to be so sterile all the time? a hand on a knee can mean a thousand different things, humans use contact and body language too, it's not just for dogs.

    Hand on the knee and direct eye contact up close can make someone feel uncomfortable, especially if they're trying to get away with something and you press them on it. It could be totally appropriate to do that depending on the situation, because it's much harder for someone to lie in that situation. or at least lie and get away with it.

    Comparing to a business meeting? people touch each other all the time in business meetings, some people hug, some people kiss, some pat on backs, some sit stone faced across a table.

    Sure, if you felt that strongly about it, report it. But not everyone is a molester or a creep, or inappropriate because they touch someone. In fact it's pretty normal to do so.
     
  16. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    I'm 31 and have never, ever had someone touch me in that manner that was not a family member or friend. Having an authority figure do that would make me uncomfortable at this age, and not necessarily because it's a sexual thing. I have certain parts of my body that are off limits for touching by someone who I don't have a close relationship with.
     
  17. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    If one of my students told me the counselor did that to her, I'd be emailing the administrator that supervised the counselor and letting him know that the counselor was making students uncomfortable with his/her actions.

    It doesn't matter if anything was meant by it or if it was strictly professional--if it makes the kid feel physically uncomfortable, it's wrong. It's why I offer kids high-5's instead of hugs. Enough of the kids are uncomfortable receiving hugs from a teacher that unless they initiate it, I don't ever offer it.
     
  18. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    I guess since getting hauled in for doing something wrong or lying probably makes most kids uncomfortable, better get rid of that too i guess.

    But more importantly, lets focus on something done in front of other adults that was most likely not sexual in anyway shape or form , but rather something done to denote the seriousness of the situation. Instead Let's talk about what a creep this guy could potentially be, let's go down the path of the boogey man again. It's easy to deflect things these days, just bring up pedophiles.

    How about, what did the child do, what were the circumstances, the seriousness, the nature of the visit to the counselor and was she in fact lying? Or are those details not important?
     
  19. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    I talked with her about this last night. I asked if he has done this before.

    Lots of times, my friend _______ too.

    How did you feel about it?

    I don't like it.

    and btw she was telling the truth.

    and no I don't think those details are important. I think any teacher, or stranger, or anyone should not be touching a child below the waist unless there is an injury and it is necessary and they have permission.to do so for that injury.

    I certainly wouldn't touch any child like that especially this age and older. Babies I pick up if they know me and the parents are approving and all is good, but I don't touch any one without them being either a dear friend or a family member. IT just isn't appropriate.


    -----------------------------

    Bullying is exactly how it came off to me, in every passive aggressive way, epsecially the hard eye contact and the in your face talking low.

    There was an hour and a half left of the day, it was graduation, and she didn't want to be there. I should have taken her home. I should not have listened to everyone else that she would be fine, and she should not miss graduation. I said ok, it's only an hour and a half left. Yet I could not leave the office, my eyes dripped, and I felt she wasn't well enough for this. Never again will I ever let anyone sway me into thinking they know her better than I do. I feel just sick about the fall out afterward which I won't go into here. A pat on the back, an arm around the shoulder would be one thing...but a hand on the knee of a preteen girl with hard eye contact and leaning in so his face is in hers while calling her a liar is not what I want anyone doing to my child, or me, or anyone else for that matter. I am very upset about this. I came home and thought I will walk until I am not angry any more, that didn't work my feet gave out first. I have very good recall, and what I saw wasn't right and two days later I am just as mad as I was when this happened. I wish he could have to live what she has had to live with, and then have someone treat HIM like that.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2012
  20. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Dang, you've been to a LOT different meetings than I have, that's for sure. If a business colleague put their hand on the INSIDE of my knee and leaned in to talk right in my face? NO. Nor have I ever been (or would want to be) hugged or kissed at a business meeting.

    This exactly. This was not a pat on the back or a quick shoulder squeeze, the inside of the knee is off limits IMO. Children are not property for adults to handle however they like.

    And no, whether she was lying or not has nothing to do with it, IMO. There are ways to get to the bottom of something that don't involve invading personal space.
     

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