Why I Say No To Dog Parks As A Pit Mix Owner

[Dobiegurl]

For one thing, rotties are not dog aggressive. Pit bulls were bred to fight and KILL other dogs, so its not smart to let them loose in a pack a strange dogs.

There are a lot of responsible pit owners, but the kind of pit owners that are ignorant are the ones who let a dog aggressive pit into a dog park. That is very ignorant!!

Rotties were not bred to kill other dogs or people, period. You are talking about BSL, and thats way different.

By the way, I dont think you should start an argument over what breed is the strongest, because there is no proof to support that. Size does matter. If what you are saying is true, then a chihuahua could kill a JRT, because he is smaller than the JRT. Put a fila or a mastiff against a pit, and the pit would probably get crushed. Just my opinion.

But we are not talking about a Chi and a JRT. A pitt is very powerful and cannot compare a Pit/mastiff fight to a Chi/JRT fight. Pitts are very pain tolerant and are very strong. If they get the right timing and latch onto the neck the other dog is done.

Rotts are dog agressive as are many other breeds such as Akita's, Doberman's, Cane Corso's, Presa's, and the list goes on and on. There are alot of dog agressive dogs but its just that Pitt agression usually leaves the other dog in serious condition if not already dead. Pitts are in a catagory of their own, not because they are more or less dog aggressive but because the attack is more devestating.

Pitts were NEVER bred to kill people.

I do not agree with dog parks for any dogs. Any dog can become dog agressive and I am not going to let my dog get into a fight because I would hurt that other dog because nothing messes with my baby.

Not all pitts are bad but I don't think you should take that chance with another dog. The media does not need another "pit bull attack story" on the cover of the newspaper.

 

[rosebud*]

IMO 90% of the problems are the owners regardless of breed of dog. Like it was stated before, some people have a pit as a status symbol without really realizing what kind of training it takes to keep it in check. You shouldn't take any dog to a dog park to socialize it without previous socialization. But yet many dog owners do that, thinking it is like taking your kids to the park and you are free to drink you latte and read the paper.

 

[oriondw]

Not sure where you live, but in the United States any animal, wild or domesticated, that causes damage to another domesticated animal, person or propperty in either offense or defense is considered "dangerous and/or destructive" in the eyes of the Law.

Not sure which state you live in, but that is not the law in most States.

 

[montydog]

THANK YOU Mojozen for your clarity and sanity! I would never take my GSD or Jindo to the dog park either...because I know them! Although the Jindo has never, ever growled or showed agression towards me or my family I have seen what he is capable of with other dogs, no not all dogs. I love the dog for what he is he is but I'm not in denial about his breed and potential. He is perfectly happy not going to the dog park too. I do love taking my lab to the park because she is a very dog-social girl and so I appreciate dog parks too. I think Pit Bull terriers are beautiful and can be the best behaved and sweetest dogs with people and know some very playful ones but they have become so popular and prevalent around here and everyone has them now including many people who shouldn't. All of the hype tryng to dispel fear of Pit bulls has gone overboard only encouraging a lot of young new dog owners who want to hang out at the dog park to go there with their cute young pits who "just have a bad rap". If you are someone who wants to hang out at the dog park and relax and socialize don't go and get one of these dogs. Of course there are a rare few with diligent owners (and I don't mean owners who buy their dogs an expensive coat or sweater and feed the best foods) who are very well supervised and can be so playful with most other dogs. Even if they are sweet little angels to you dog-on-dog agession is in their blood and they are capable of killing and just because its fine with your neighbors dog you never know which dog will ignite him. I've seen too many intact Pit bulls off leash here lately(now come on, this is just asking for trouble) and I've heard too many PB owners say "he/she is friendly" a few minutes before biting another dog and then they say "I've never seen him do this before" or "the other dog started it". Irresponsibility, Denial, Stupidity, & Ignorance on the part of the owners can lead to serious trouble and harm. Thanks for letting me give my two cents.
Oh and anyone who compares a nippie chihuahau or other 7lb dog to a PB is in serious denial.

 

[rottnpagan]

By the way, I dont think you should start an argument over what breed is the strongest, because there is no proof to support that. Size does matter. If what you are saying is true, then a chihuahua could kill a JRT, because he is smaller than the JRT. Put a fila or a mastiff against a pit, and the pit would probably get crushed. Just my opinion.

Um, no. Pit bulls routinely took down bulls that were considerably larger than a fila or a mastiff. I have no doubt that a rottweiler would lose in a fight with a pit bull, and I have no plans to allow something of the sort to occur, regardless of breed.

 

[Amstaffer]

You're kidding me, right? You don't think pit bulls are/can be dog aggressive? That they are just dog dominant? So basically you are saying that all the other experienced breeders, rescuers, and owners who have witnessed hair trigger dog aggression in pit bulls are wrong?

Pit Bulls absolutely can be Dog aggressive if they have have positively reinforced to be such or not trained and/or socialized to act on their dominance differently.

The part with dog behavior that many people get confused is this; Dogs have tendencies towards Dominance and Submissiveness. Dominance is a trait and Aggression is a behavior, people confuse the two all the time. A dog learns to act aggressive because of his or her life experience. Some dogs act aggressive out of displays of Dominance that is incorrectly channeled (Most Pit Bulls who act aggressive fall into this) other dogs act aggressive out of fear (this is where most dog bites on humans come from)

Hair Trigger dog aggression as you call it, is not inherent but a result of a dog who has been abused, neglected or encourage to act aggressive. If you spend the time to work with a Pit Bull (Train, Socialize etc...) you can make them a trustworthy animals with other dogs (please check out the Dog Whisper on National Geographic Channel). I have seen many many cases of this as I have been around dog shows (we should meet at the next one in Madison) and experienced dog owners.

Is the this training and socializing for the new dog owner or some wannabee tough guy.............no! The Pit Bull is for the experienced dog owner who is willing to dedicate most of his free time to working with his dog. If you are looking for a status symbol (not talking about you Mojo) or good starter dog, PLEASE look elsewhere.

 

[Amstaffer]

By the way, I dont think you should start an argument over what breed is the strongest, because there is no proof to support that. Size does matter. If what you are saying is true, then a chihuahua could kill a JRT, because he is smaller than the JRT. Put a fila or a mastiff against a pit, and the pit would probably get crushed. Just my opinion.

A few hundred years of dog fighting scum have found that the dog that was best at fighting was the Pit Bull (or at least is call the Pit Bull today)

Strongest doesn't mean anything either (Which there is proof of for the Pit Bull, pound for pound its not even close) its gameness and that is the separating factor. I however think that the whole fighting/gameness thing is disgusting and I wish the Pit Bull was 100th on the list of "game dogs" so idiots who pick this breed for dubious reasons would look elsewhere. Because they excel in my favorite category.....Sweetness! I will argue night and day that there is no breed alive that can out Sweetness a Pit Bull (IMHO). I realize that will be hottly contested but BRING IT ON!

 

[Gempress]

For one thing, rotties are not dog aggressive.

"An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs should not be faulted."

That is a quote from the official rottweiler AKC breed standard. Basically, dog aggression but is an accepted part of the rottweiler's natural temperament.

 

[sharpeilover]

i cant beleieve there is an argument about which breed would be able to fight better, in a perfect world all dogs are friendly to people and other animals. Dogs fight mainly because of the way they have being brought up to fight. Yes there is dogs that dont like other dogs but there is something that normally triggers that. Not just woke up and thought, right going to kill a dog today

 

[mojozen]

Amstaffer,
I think on the subject of Dominance vs Aggression in pit bulls - you and i are in two different camps of thought.

I think dog aggression IS an inherent part of the breed - it's not a form of dominance as I know some housepet pit bulls who were never abused, never mistreated, and never trained to be fighters but ARE dog aggressive and they can have hair trigger responses. They can be trained to ignore dogs at a distance - but that's intense, constant training.

I disagree with you on many of your points, but agree with you on the points about pit bulls not being a good starter dog (they are incredibly different from every dog i've ever had!), often times have crappy owners, and dog fighting is bad. The people who engage in it today oftentimes do not know what the bloody hell they are doing either with training, breeding, or managing the dogs they keep. And that's when true tragedy strikes... which is a **** shame.

I still don't believe that we as responsible dog owners should be encouraging other pb owners to go to the dog park. But what i believe and think only has impact on my own world, I suppose.

Next Madison Dog show is around the 8th of May I believe (my birthday!) and if I can manage to get off from work I'd love to meet up.

 

[casablanca1]

If you are in a dog park thats kind of to be expected.

I believe you misread my post. What I said - "I've just had to beat free-roaming animals off my dog too many times, usually as the aggressor's owner strolls up, leash in hand, a look of wry amusement on their face" - was about public places like streets and sidewalks, not a fenced dog park.

Of course, bringing a squirt bottle in case and knowing what to do in case of a fight is important.

Any dog who can be stopped by a squirt bottle can be stopped by a well-placed foot. Bringing a squirter to the dog park is nice (it keeps your feet out of squabbles) but I wouldn't be too complacent about how effective it will be if a truly aggressive dog attacks someone or their dog.

 

[Amstaffer]

Amstaffer,
I think dog aggression IS an inherent part of the breed - it's not a form of dominance as I know some housepet pit bulls who were never abused, never mistreated, and never trained to be fighters but ARE dog aggressive .

These Housepet (which I think all Pits should be) that you speak of are neglected in away. The neglect I am talking about is not the obivous and hideous type you see on Animal Planet but rather lack of firm and consistent training. Believe me you can take a dog (especially from puppyhood) and channel dog dominance into non-aggression even with Pit Bulls.

Next Madison Dog show is around the 8th of May I believe (my birthday!) and if I can manage to get off from work I'd love to meet up.

That would be cool, I'll check the calander and see if I can make it. Where is it going to be at? That building by the old Madison Coliseum? If it is a Sat. or Sunday I can be there.

 

[casablanca1]

BTW, what is with the constant blame-the-victim mentality with the people who own large dogs when talk turns to dog attacks? I know little dogs can be a pain in the ass, but if my dog went after one and tried to kill it, I wouldn't give a **** who eye-f*cked who or who snapped at who first, I'd be angry at myself and at my dog. I might be be irritated at the other dog and its owner, but I'd accept that if my dog attacked seriously, it was mostly about my dog and my ownership, not the other dog. Obvious exception made for a dog who responds to a serious if size-related ineffectual attack by a small dog, but most incidents I hear about are about a small dog who snaps or yaps or jumps at the larger dog, aggressive behavior but not justification for retaliation. I've owned dog-aggressive dogs (not murderously so, but certainly not dog-friendly) and although I've occasionally wanted to murder clueless people, I don't look at myself as a beleaguered victim and I don't understand why so many people seem to have that self-pitying sigh in their voice when they comment on how 'oh, even if the pit didn't start it, he'll be blamed for finishing it' and 'this Chi got right in my dog's face and started the whole thing but it's owner said that Rotties were awful dogs and so I told her..." Give me a break.

 

[PFC1]

I don't know if this is so much a blame the victim mentality. In a dog park situation, it seems to me that a dog with a proper temperment for the park will not react violently to another dog who simply gets in its face and barks, or even behaves in a way that is intimidating or dominating, but short of actual biting. If a dog reacts to any confrontation by lashing out violently, then the reacting dog does not have the proper temperment for an off leash park. However, if a dog actually bites or attacks, then it certainly is expected that the bitten dog will respond in kind. Of course, there are also different levels of biting. Dogs can play by chewing on each other, and it's not necessarily inapropriate. Dogs can also nip at one another, particularly where one dog is telling the other "stop trying to mount me," or "knock it off," yet those uses of the teeth are not all out agressive attack mode, and do not necessarily mean that that dog is ill tempered. (It is in these instances when owers should be stepping in to prevent escalation.) So, to the extent that a pit owner is saying that their dog will react to an unprovoked bite or attack by fighting back, I certainly understand that. To the extent they are claiming that the other dog started it by "getting in the pit's face," or some other behavior short of an actual attack, I do not accept that. Maybe that's what you are trying to say. If so, I agree.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

I do not agree with taking pits to dog parks. They do have a tendency to be dog aggressive, and while I think they are awesome dogs, they still have that tendency.

 

[rottnpagan]

i cant beleieve there is an argument about which breed would be able to fight better, in a perfect world all dogs are friendly to people and other animals. Dogs fight mainly because of the way they have being brought up to fight. Yes there is dogs that dont like other dogs but there is something that normally triggers that. Not just woke up and thought, right going to kill a dog today

It's not a perfect world. Not all dogs *are* friendly to all people, or all dogs. The sooner more people realize that, and take the needed steps to make sure that their dogs and other dogs are safe from fights or finger-pointing, the better it will be.

 

[rottnpagan]

These Housepet (which I think all Pits should be) that you speak of are neglected in away. The neglect I am talking about is not the obivous and hideous type you see on Animal Planet but rather lack of firm and consistent training. Believe me you can take a dog (especially from puppyhood) and channel dog dominance into non-aggression even with Pit Bulls.

So you're saying that even though it's a standard and accepted part of the breed, by nature -by pure genetics- you or a dog trainer (and I'm not talking Milan here) can 'save' them? That nurture will overtake nature, 100%?

Wow. That's a rather naive concept, IMO.

 

[oriondw]

i cant beleieve there is an argument about which breed would be able to fight better, in a perfect world all dogs are friendly to people and other animals. Dogs fight mainly because of the way they have being brought up to fight. Yes there is dogs that dont like other dogs but there is something that normally triggers that. Not just woke up and thought, right going to kill a dog today

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

 

[Amstaffer]

So you're saying that even though it's a standard and accepted part of the breed, by nature -by pure genetics- you or a dog trainer (and I'm not talking Milan here) can 'save' them? That nurture will overtake nature, 100%?

Wow. That's a rather naive concept, IMO.

From Puppyhood I would say 99.9 percent of the time. Even Dogs suffer from mental illness.

As adult who has already compiled a life time of experiences.... no but the sooner you get the dog the better. Depending on the time committed and skill of the dog owner can greatly affect your success.

Nurture will beat Nature most everytime given the right set up.

Wow. Your wholesale disbelief exposes your lack of knowledge of behavior, IMHO

If you do any research on dog behavior, dog training or basic Psychology at all you will find that Genetics gives tendencies but actual Behavior is determined by Nuture (life experience and training).

Genetics (Breeds and such) makes it very easy for the Categorizing addicts that us humans are to pigeon hole dogs. On another post someone said that "All dogs are individuals" that was sooo true. We hate to admit to that because that makes dogs closer to our elevated status but it is a very true statement.

 

[rottnpagan]

Wow. Your wholesale disbelief exposes your lack of knowledge of behavior, IMHO

If you do any research on dog behavior, dog training or basic Psychology at all you will find that Genetics gives tendencies but actual Behavior is determined by Nuture (life experience and training).

I've done quite a bit, thank you. I disagree with your opinion. I think that a 'love can save them all' attitude does not but a disservice to many dogs. Not all, but more than it should.

I just hope no one is hurt, and the breed doesn't suffer for it, anymore than it already has.