Why I Say No To Dog Parks As A Pit Mix Owner

[Dobiegurl]

I really dont understand why you are saying that a pit can take down ANY breed. Why argue that? You have no proof. Pits are not the only breed that has a high pain tolerance. Filas, tosas, canary dogs, and other breeds were also used for fighting, and they have a high pain tolerance. They are way bigger then pits. I have personaly seen a fila crush a pit instantly. Their jaws are bigger than pit jaws. You get your hands on a conditioned fila or canary dog, and then tell me that a pit is stronger. You are very mistaken, because you cannot take one breed and say that they are the strongest. Its more about the individual dog.

If you look at the history of rotties, you will see that they are not supposed to be dog aggressive. Pits have been bred to kill other dogs for many many years. Its not that they are stronger than a different breed, its because most of them are aggressive with other dogs, and they will attack. I had this problem in my local dog park. 9 times out of ten, the pits were causing the fights. That is my experience.

I never once said that pitts were bred to kill people. I said they were bred to kill other dogs.

I don't recall stating that a pit can take down any breed, I simply said that they were very strong and pain tolerant. I really don't know why I am argueing this point because I in no way support fighting but a pit bull can be a fila or presa or a corso. The term "pit bull" covers a wide range of breeds and never once did I specifically say America Pitt Bull Terrier.

All dogs can become dog agressive but its just that pitts express it more. There are ways to lessen a pitts agressive behavior but you can't make it disappear. Any dog can attack or respond to another dogs behavior at any point in their lives. I believe a great deal of the agression comes from the owners but the genes they need to become these fighting dogs are already installed in them, they just need some kind of stimuli to let out these behaviors. Any thing can trigger your dog to go off, some things we will never know. I do not feel dog parks are safe at all because any dog can turn at any given moment. Yes, pitts tend to show more agression but all dogs have the ability to become agressive. Its just when a pit engages in a fight they have the determination to finish it. That is where the owners come in to make sure that they do not get into a situation where a fight might start.

 

[BigDog2191]

Actually, out of the couple of times I've seen him... the people will show up at his facility and give him an update. Or he'll visit them and give them an update.

I think he's rather creative in what he does and his techniques are... to say the least interesting. But I earned a lot of respect for him when he dealt with a VERY aggressive Jindo and then CAME 2 weeks later and got feedback from the people who were actually planning on rehoming him in the first place decide to keep him. That's talent and understanding dogs.

Only one training method I didn't agree with that he did - there was a dog who was scared of almost everything whenever he would walk through the public... Caesar leashed him in a way that the tail wouldn't go between the dogs legs and stood upright.

The reason I didn't agree with it is because 'you can make me smile but you can't make me happy'. But in the end, the dog ended up being confident.

 

[oriondw]

People who think that pits are some super dog killers are gullible...

All the hype around pitbulls, they are really nothing special.

 

[rottiegirl]

You can say whatever you like, the majority of the dog world will disagree.

And yes, actually I have seen well bred filas and tosas. I fail to see your point.

It would be ridiculous for anyone to say that any pit can take down ANY dog. You do not make any sense. You are acting like pits are 100 times more powerfull than any dog that walked the earth. Thats far from the truth. one pit could be way more weak then a different pit, they are all different. The pits that I seen at the park didnt have much muscle mass, and they were very small. It would be a mistake for them to mess with a larger, stronger dog. That is my point. And some posters are jumping on me, because I said that.

 

[BigDog2191]

People who think that pits are some super dog killers are gullible...

All the hype around pitbulls, they are really nothing special.

Well, it's kind of a stupid and disgusting to discuss this.. but actually, pits are extremely strong and extremely fast, they can kill just about any dog, that's why extreme caution has to be taken with them. That's why they're so popular in fight rings.

 

[rottiegirl]

People who think that pits are some super dog killers are gullible...

All the hype around pitbulls, they are really nothing special.

So true. Its the very reason why pits are so popular with rappers and thugs. They think pits are the strongest dog ever.

 

[rottiegirl]

Well, it's kind of a stupid and disgusting to discuss this.. but actually, pits are extremely strong and extremely fast, they can kill just about any dog, that's why extreme caution has to be taken with them. That's why they're so popular in fight rings.

They are popular in american rings. I have seen ACDs that were way faster than pits. No matter what people say, pits are not the strongest breed.

 

[oriondw]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaasdddddddd

 

[oriondw]

Well, it's kind of a stupid and disgusting to discuss this.. but actually, pits are extremely strong and extremely fast, they can kill just about any dog, that's why extreme caution has to be taken with them. That's why they're so popular in fight rings.

Hype.

 

[BigDog2191]

They are popular in american rings. I have seen ACDs that were way faster than pits. No matter what people say, pits are not the strongest breed.

They're popular in a lot of other places as well... I've talked to many people who own them in different countries where fighting is actually a lot more common.

ACDs are faster... well a greyhound is faster too, so what? ACDs were meant to herd not fight. Pitbulls were.

 

[motherofmany]

You are play semantics here, at the end of the day(figurative day) a good dog behaviorist can take a dog that has learn to express dominance in the for of aggression and channel that into something else..

It is not a semantic argument and your failure to recognize that is a little disturbing. Pit Bulls and other breeds selectively bred for dog aggression are not merely channeling dominance into dog aggression. They are exhibiting what was considered a desirable breed trait (meaning inbred behavior characteristic) that was encouraged (purposely bred for)

I never said you could eliminate tendencies just behaviors. Behaviors (what the dog actually does) is what we are worried about.

Maybe you're only worried about behaviors. I am worried about tendencies (traits) because they play a very strong role in behaviors. You cannot eliminate the behavior without eliminating the trait when it comes to selected (purposely bred in) traits. Knowing that a breed has a behavioral trait can helps to control the expression of it because one knows to train around it, but it cannot 100% eliminate the possibility of expression. There is no failure free "proof" for dog aggression in dogs purpose bred for that very reason.

I do understand your idea of containment...but the problem I have with this containment is that it implies helplessness or inablilty to change. You have acknowledge that change can be made in dogs by training.

Containment is a proactive stance. It actually aknowledges that we are not helpless to control certain environmental impacts. It also aknowledges that we are not going to change innate behaviors, just modulate them. Not helpless, wise enough to control what we can.

I think it is completely fine that Mojo has decided to avoid dog parks just as I hope you will realize that by an experienced and skilled dog owner it is possible to take your dog anywhere you want.

This is where I thing the BS comes in. Sorry, but a skilled trainer will aknowledge that there are places and circumstances that they cannot place their dog into without risk.


http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html

 

[rottiegirl]

They're popular in a lot of other places as well... I've talked to many people who own them in different countries where fighting is actually a lot more common.

ACDs are faster... well a greyhound is faster too, so what? ACDs were meant to herd not fight. Pitbulls were.

I just brought up a ACD, because I have seen them in fights and they are quick. I have never been so scared in my life, lol.

Ok, here is an interesting web site. I think weight does improve a dogs chances in a fight, That is why dog fighters match the weights of the dogs for fighting. http://www.fila.org/libourel/index.html

 

[Dobiegurl]

This post has become disgusting. Why are we arguing about which dogs can fight better? I simply said that pitts were very pain tolerant and strong. Any dog in great physical condition can take a pitt, its just a fact that pitts were bred for fighting and killing other dogs. Pitts are not super dogs and I have to disagree that ALL pitts are agressive because I had a pitt when I was like five and she never got agressive. We had 4 other dogs in the house and she never once growled. All dogs were bred for different purposes and I think the ones bred to kill other dogs have an advantage but that doesn't mean that they are unstoppable. Pitts are actually very sweet dogs and not all know how to fight. One time these stupid thugs living next door put their pitt in my yard for that one second we left her outside and when we got back she was in a corner with her guts hanging out. It was obvious that she did not defend herselve because she didn't know how. Not all pitts are fighting dogs and all this media about killing pitts only brings more attention to them and more thugs want them. And once they are banned the thugs will move on to another breed and mess up snother breed.

 

[Dobiegurl]

Oh wow, I never once said that a rottie could take down a pit. I said that the aggressive pits that I seen in the dog park were pretty lucky that they didnt mess with a larger conditioned dog. Its more individual. A well bred and conditioned rottie could take down a poorly bred pit. That goes for any breed. You cannot say that one breed is stronger than another breed. Its just not true. Like I said before, I have personaly seen a fila take down a pit in no time. That is what I seen with my own eyes, so I do not think you can claim that any pit can take down any dog. Have you ever seen a well conditioned fila or tosa before? Guess not.

If you believe every dog is an individual why do you stereotype pitts, saying that when you go to the park the pitts always start the fight. I'm confused as to what side you are on. Do you think pitts should not go to dog parks as a whole, or do you believe each dog is an individual? It can't be both, either you see all pitts as dog agressive or you feel they are individuals.

 

[Dobiegurl]

Ok, here is an interesting web site. I think weight does improve a dogs chances in a fight, That is why dog fighters match the weights of the dogs for fighting. http://www.fila.org/libourel/index.html

Again, a fila or any other bully breed can be considered a "pit bull". There is no specific breed for the term pit bull. There is however an American Pit Bull Terrier. Fighting pitts are just random bred bully dogs.

 

[rottnpagan]

It would be ridiculous for anyone to say that any pit can take down ANY dog. You do not make any sense. You are acting like pits are 100 times more powerfull than any dog that walked the earth. Thats far from the truth. one pit could be way more weak then a different pit, they are all different. The pits that I seen at the park didnt have much muscle mass, and they were very small. It would be a mistake for them to mess with a larger, stronger dog. That is my point. And some posters are jumping on me, because I said that.

Please re-read my post before you start spouting off. I never ONCE said pit bulls were more powerful than any other dog. I said that pit bulls were bred for taking down bulls, which they were. And that there's no doubt in my mind that a pit bull would harm a rottweiler. I also said that I will not put MY dogs into a position of potential harm. REGARDLESS.

A pit bull DOES NOT care what size it's opponent is.

And rottiegirl, if you'd like to *discuss* this further, take it to PM. I, too have an issue with the way this thread has gone, and I'm stopping it publicly.

 

[rottiegirl]

Again, a fila or any other bully breed can be considered a "pit bull". There is no specific breed for the term pit bull. There is however an American Pit Bull Terrier. Fighting pitts are just random bred bully dogs.

Well, I was talking about an APBT. That is the breed that my local dog park is having problems with. I think everyone on chaz uses the term "pit bull" to describe an APBT.

 

[rottiegirl]

Please re-read my post before you start spouting off. I never ONCE said pit bulls were more powerful than any other dog. I said that pit bulls were bred for taking down bulls, which they were. And that there's no doubt in my mind that a pit bull would harm a rottweiler. I also said that I will not put MY dogs into a position of potential harm. REGARDLESS.

A pit bull DOES NOT care what size it's opponent is.

I know that pits do not care about size, most dogs dont.

I am just saying that the pits at the park were lucky that they didnt go after a bigger, stronger dog.

 

[brock23]

This thread has been very interesting for a few pages now.........................pulls out popcorn and sits back to enjoy the show.

 

[jess2416]

This thread has been very interesting for a few pages now.........................pulls out popcorn and sits back to enjoy the show.

Hee hee... If you got popcorn I'm there too..