Update on Bush Admin. Regulation--Ladies, read this
- Thread starter Lilavati
- Start date
without the deppo shot i could DIE! no literally i could bleed to death.
its highly unlikely i can actually get pregnant...thats life for ya...
ive bene on birth control pills since i was 10, deppo for the past 7 yrs! without it i bleed dtragith through, heavily for up to 4 weeks straight, it wasnt unusual for me to pass clots the size of quarters for 4 weeks, stop for 3 days and resume bleeding for another month...
i had to spend much of the year between 9 and 10 in the hospital for anemia, bad clotting and hemmoraging, the drs made it ver clear, its BC or possibly death!
right now i am jobless through no fault of my own, i havent had health insurance for years because i aged out, i started using planned parenthood because they can privide me affordable health care...
but what if...with this stuff, the nurse that provides me with my shot decideds its morally wrong...
what if they decide...birth control is ONLY for convenience and i dont need to give it anymore?!
i have no choice...theres no other planned parenthood within driving distance of me...i cant afford a private practice...i certainly cant afford an er visit...so i should just sit at home and pottentially bleed to death beuse some nurse decidede its against their morals and refuses to refer me to another provider?
so...
i DO think that a person has every right to refuse treatment based on their moral compass...however i also feel that those folks shoudl not put themselves in a situation where those morals might come into play...dont like abortion, dont work for a PP or abortion clinic...
i think giving them the right to REFUSE to get/send you to someone who will however is WRONG beyond wrong...
what if i was to turn up at the er, with my condition, ive been refused my medication and now im running a serious medical risk..the er nurse however also doesnt belive in BC and not only doesnt have to help me...but also doesn thave to get me someone that will?!
this otpics fairly agrivatiiong for me for obvious reasons...
but to make it worse.
a good frined of mine died a few years back after she was refused an abortion and died of complications caused by the pregnancy.
the dr had already said being pregnant could do alot of damage to her health and her mother still refused...she was only 15 (her bf of the time raped her though noone belived her)
edit to add:
ok so im "special" their anti bc morals dont effect me because its a medical reason...but who decides when the symptoms are bad enough?
what if "so having your periods going to make you VERY sick...but it wont kill you...so im not going to give you the medication" becomes the norm?!
its highly unlikely i can actually get pregnant...thats life for ya...
ive bene on birth control pills since i was 10, deppo for the past 7 yrs! without it i bleed dtragith through, heavily for up to 4 weeks straight, it wasnt unusual for me to pass clots the size of quarters for 4 weeks, stop for 3 days and resume bleeding for another month...
i had to spend much of the year between 9 and 10 in the hospital for anemia, bad clotting and hemmoraging, the drs made it ver clear, its BC or possibly death!
right now i am jobless through no fault of my own, i havent had health insurance for years because i aged out, i started using planned parenthood because they can privide me affordable health care...
but what if...with this stuff, the nurse that provides me with my shot decideds its morally wrong...
what if they decide...birth control is ONLY for convenience and i dont need to give it anymore?!
i have no choice...theres no other planned parenthood within driving distance of me...i cant afford a private practice...i certainly cant afford an er visit...so i should just sit at home and pottentially bleed to death beuse some nurse decidede its against their morals and refuses to refer me to another provider?
so...
i DO think that a person has every right to refuse treatment based on their moral compass...however i also feel that those folks shoudl not put themselves in a situation where those morals might come into play...dont like abortion, dont work for a PP or abortion clinic...
i think giving them the right to REFUSE to get/send you to someone who will however is WRONG beyond wrong...
what if i was to turn up at the er, with my condition, ive been refused my medication and now im running a serious medical risk..the er nurse however also doesnt belive in BC and not only doesnt have to help me...but also doesn thave to get me someone that will?!
this otpics fairly agrivatiiong for me for obvious reasons...
but to make it worse.
a good frined of mine died a few years back after she was refused an abortion and died of complications caused by the pregnancy.
the dr had already said being pregnant could do alot of damage to her health and her mother still refused...she was only 15 (her bf of the time raped her though noone belived her)
edit to add:
ok so im "special" their anti bc morals dont effect me because its a medical reason...but who decides when the symptoms are bad enough?
what if "so having your periods going to make you VERY sick...but it wont kill you...so im not going to give you the medication" becomes the norm?!
Nolu, regardless of how the term "Abortion" is defined in the dictionary, it's most commonly used to refer to the deliberately termination of a living fetus, who would have been borned perfectly healthy if not being aborted. True some people refer to miscarriage as spontaneous abortion, and there's nothing wrong with it - but they're the world different, aren't they?
and ACTUALLY Dr's don't call nessecary "abortions" Abortions. Perhaps the definition is the same but Dr's don't view them the same.
When I had to have my "abortion" I was assured over and over that I was not in fact having an abortion. I was having an emergency termination.
And while it may sound silly to you because it's just a change of words... it's not. It isn't just a change of wording. It's a change of procedure. An Abortion is an unnessecary procedure to terminate a baby. An Emergency termination is just that... a NESSECARY EMERGENCY procedure. and it is two completely different things to the medical profession.
When I had to have my "abortion" I was assured over and over that I was not in fact having an abortion. I was having an emergency termination.
And while it may sound silly to you because it's just a change of words... it's not. It isn't just a change of wording. It's a change of procedure. An Abortion is an unnessecary procedure to terminate a baby. An Emergency termination is just that... a NESSECARY EMERGENCY procedure. and it is two completely different things to the medical profession.
I <3 George Carlin. RIP.
Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective. I used to work at a boarding resort. I had to deal with people who felt that Beneful was the bestest food ever, that their 42 lb Beagle really did need to eat 6 cups of food a day, that Ceasar Milan was the god of dog training and they had no problem whomping on their dog with the leash after jerking them around by a prong collar. Now, my personal morals screamed bloody murder quite often there, especially when it came to overfeeding dogs that were so obese they resembled coffee tables. Yet, I had to follow the owners directions. That's what I was getting paid for, to take care of their dog like they would when they couldn't be there. There was no wiggle room for my personal morals, despite the fact that it physically pained me to do my job. I did all I could to offer alternate suggestions, recommended books, websites, different techniques, etc. But that was all I could do. I could not refuse to perform a service that I felt was detrimental to a dog's well-being. I finally got fed up with being part of the slow death of too many dogs and quit.
Granted, there is a world of difference between being a doctor and a dog worker in terms of ease of finding a job, but the basic principle is the same.
Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective. I used to work at a boarding resort. I had to deal with people who felt that Beneful was the bestest food ever, that their 42 lb Beagle really did need to eat 6 cups of food a day, that Ceasar Milan was the god of dog training and they had no problem whomping on their dog with the leash after jerking them around by a prong collar. Now, my personal morals screamed bloody murder quite often there, especially when it came to overfeeding dogs that were so obese they resembled coffee tables. Yet, I had to follow the owners directions. That's what I was getting paid for, to take care of their dog like they would when they couldn't be there. There was no wiggle room for my personal morals, despite the fact that it physically pained me to do my job. I did all I could to offer alternate suggestions, recommended books, websites, different techniques, etc. But that was all I could do. I could not refuse to perform a service that I felt was detrimental to a dog's well-being. I finally got fed up with being part of the slow death of too many dogs and quit.
Granted, there is a world of difference between being a doctor and a dog worker in terms of ease of finding a job, but the basic principle is the same.
Are you serious? Most people don't become doctors just so they can help someone terminate their pregnancies..
I have lots of friends who're practicing nurses. They all refuse to participate in any abortion procedure, and the hospitals are fine with it. Actually, most asked during their interview if they could do that, and would only accept the job when the answer is yes.
I have lots of friends who're practicing nurses. They all refuse to participate in any abortion procedure, and the hospitals are fine with it. Actually, most asked during their interview if they could do that, and would only accept the job when the answer is yes.
Correct. Doctor's refer to it as "termination." (or at least most I know of do)
But what about in the situation I presented (that I've been presented with). A client walks in and tells you to euthanize her perfectly healthy Shih Tzu. They don't want the dog anymore because it sheds too much and is peeing on the floor. And they've got company coming to stay so they don't want to deal with it anymore. Do you a) do as the client wishes and what you are paid to do or b) offer training solutions and a good groomer or c) provide them with the information for a good rescue and have them call
And Foxy, that's why I HATE when bills/laws touch on several different topics vs. just addressing one issue at a time. I cannot stand it when lawmakers attach pet projects to other issues that are going up for approval because they know that since the majority of the people want the main issue/project/whatever passed, that their not-so-popular agenda has a better chance of getting through the cracks.
But what about in the situation I presented (that I've been presented with). A client walks in and tells you to euthanize her perfectly healthy Shih Tzu. They don't want the dog anymore because it sheds too much and is peeing on the floor. And they've got company coming to stay so they don't want to deal with it anymore. Do you a) do as the client wishes and what you are paid to do or b) offer training solutions and a good groomer or c) provide them with the information for a good rescue and have them call
And Foxy, that's why I HATE when bills/laws touch on several different topics vs. just addressing one issue at a time. I cannot stand it when lawmakers attach pet projects to other issues that are going up for approval because they know that since the majority of the people want the main issue/project/whatever passed, that their not-so-popular agenda has a better chance of getting through the cracks.
And I didn't imply that most physicians go to medical school solely for the purpose of prodding unborn babies in the head, either.
Those nurses have the option to work in an Orthopedic office, or cardiac unit, or ICU, etc. etc. If they CHOOSE to work in the vicinity of a va-jay-jay then they should be willing to accept all aspects of that job, not just the underwater birthing with dolphins and a choir of angels that go along with it. I apologize if I'm coming off as completely rude, but this is an issue I feel incredibly strongly about--likely as strongly as you do likewise.
Those nurses have the option to work in an Orthopedic office, or cardiac unit, or ICU, etc. etc. If they CHOOSE to work in the vicinity of a va-jay-jay then they should be willing to accept all aspects of that job, not just the underwater birthing with dolphins and a choir of angels that go along with it. I apologize if I'm coming off as completely rude, but this is an issue I feel incredibly strongly about--likely as strongly as you do likewise.
A non-medical abortion is not something an OB/GYN MUST do. Nor should I have to euthanize your perfectly healthy pet all because it turned out to be dark brown instead of black. Or because you decided you didn't want it.
Just like you don't believe one has the right to refuse to do something based on his/her morals, I don't believe one must be forced to do something based on your morals....or lack thereof.
Just like you don't believe one has the right to refuse to do something based on his/her morals, I don't believe one must be forced to do something based on your morals....or lack thereof.
You're trying to prove that it's completely separate, but it's not. An unborn baby is a baby to me. It is from conception. I understand you believe differently. But just because you believe firmly in your opinion, doesn't make it fact.
You want the right to have an abortion. And a doctor wants the right to not perform one. He's not forcing you to not have one. But you are trying to force him to perform it anyways. Something is wrong with that picture.
You want the right to have an abortion. And a doctor wants the right to not perform one. He's not forcing you to not have one. But you are trying to force him to perform it anyways. Something is wrong with that picture.
Ok, let me blow a fuse here
One, the primary objection to this is it may include many kinds of birth control, and sterilization, as well as abortions
Two, it covers ANY abortion and ANY sterization, explicitly. So, if the fetus is alive, no matter how much the mother's life is in danger, it can be refused.
Three, it will override state laws requiring morning-after pills be offered to rape victims
Four, it says you can't refuse a job. So you have a gynecology practice that does abortions, and you need a nurse, and an pro-lifer shows up and the only way in which she is not qualified is that she won't do abortions. She could get a job elsewhere, but she's showing up, because SHE KNOWS SHE CAN SUE YOU IF SHE DOESN'T GET A JOB. If you think this won't happen, you are delusional. There are other jobs that don't involve abortion. Most places don't DO abortions. If you don't like abortions, don't get a job somewhere you will asked to, because you can not perform a basic function that job. A non-medical example: If I had a moral objeciton to reprisenting oil companies, I wouldn't work here, and I wouldn't be raising a fuss that they quite reasonably refused me a job, because that's part of what they do here.
Five, ok, look. I'm only nominally pro-choice. But I am going to lose my mind soon at the stupidity that comes out of pro-lifers mouths. One, a baby is not a fetus is not an embryo is not a fertilized egg. The real concern here is that a fertilized egg, not yet detectable as a preganancy, will be elevated to the level of a baby, and any thing that MIGHT lead to a fertilized egg being damaged could be classified as abortion. Two, aborting babies that are missing a finger is wrong. I'm not going to take on DS, that's more complicated. But you do realize, don't you, that many babies which are aborted for deformities are much worse off than either? Anacephaly, Triplody, horrific, deadly, painful deformities? Ones that kill at birth, shortly after birth, or lead to a life of agony or life as a human vegitable? You do realize that? so if you want to oppose abortion of deformed babies, don't consider the fingers and DS, consider the horrific deformities before you spout of. Three, people who use abortion as a form of birth control are scum. They are also rare, and we have statistics to prove it. Most abortions are accidents, from failed BC, or a one night, or rape . . . the woman did not have sex thinking "I'll just get an abortion." Maybe its wrong, but get the facts and the circumstances straight before you shoot off your mouth. Four, look at where this might lead. They may add in medications other than BC, and end of life issues. It may be a Trojan horse for greatly expanding the definition of abortion.
Six, this effects federally funded places, like big hospitals. Not mom and pop pharmacies, not your local doctors offices. So, if Mr. Smith doesn't want to sell Sally BC, this won't help him. Won't hurt him either. He can take it up with the state.
One, the primary objection to this is it may include many kinds of birth control, and sterilization, as well as abortions
Two, it covers ANY abortion and ANY sterization, explicitly. So, if the fetus is alive, no matter how much the mother's life is in danger, it can be refused.
Three, it will override state laws requiring morning-after pills be offered to rape victims
Four, it says you can't refuse a job. So you have a gynecology practice that does abortions, and you need a nurse, and an pro-lifer shows up and the only way in which she is not qualified is that she won't do abortions. She could get a job elsewhere, but she's showing up, because SHE KNOWS SHE CAN SUE YOU IF SHE DOESN'T GET A JOB. If you think this won't happen, you are delusional. There are other jobs that don't involve abortion. Most places don't DO abortions. If you don't like abortions, don't get a job somewhere you will asked to, because you can not perform a basic function that job. A non-medical example: If I had a moral objeciton to reprisenting oil companies, I wouldn't work here, and I wouldn't be raising a fuss that they quite reasonably refused me a job, because that's part of what they do here.
Five, ok, look. I'm only nominally pro-choice. But I am going to lose my mind soon at the stupidity that comes out of pro-lifers mouths. One, a baby is not a fetus is not an embryo is not a fertilized egg. The real concern here is that a fertilized egg, not yet detectable as a preganancy, will be elevated to the level of a baby, and any thing that MIGHT lead to a fertilized egg being damaged could be classified as abortion. Two, aborting babies that are missing a finger is wrong. I'm not going to take on DS, that's more complicated. But you do realize, don't you, that many babies which are aborted for deformities are much worse off than either? Anacephaly, Triplody, horrific, deadly, painful deformities? Ones that kill at birth, shortly after birth, or lead to a life of agony or life as a human vegitable? You do realize that? so if you want to oppose abortion of deformed babies, don't consider the fingers and DS, consider the horrific deformities before you spout of. Three, people who use abortion as a form of birth control are scum. They are also rare, and we have statistics to prove it. Most abortions are accidents, from failed BC, or a one night, or rape . . . the woman did not have sex thinking "I'll just get an abortion." Maybe its wrong, but get the facts and the circumstances straight before you shoot off your mouth. Four, look at where this might lead. They may add in medications other than BC, and end of life issues. It may be a Trojan horse for greatly expanding the definition of abortion.
Six, this effects federally funded places, like big hospitals. Not mom and pop pharmacies, not your local doctors offices. So, if Mr. Smith doesn't want to sell Sally BC, this won't help him. Won't hurt him either. He can take it up with the state.
The point I am making is in direct reference to the quote. You're implying that euthanizing an independent individual due to a minor inconvenience is on the same ground as an elective procedure in the womb.
In other news, I sure did jump right into the snakepit on this one, didn't I?
Obviously I know how to make first impressions here. Grawr! :rofl1:
In other news, I sure did jump right into the snakepit on this one, didn't I?
Obviously I know how to make first impressions here. Grawr! :rofl1: