Update on Bush Admin. Regulation--Ladies, read this
- Thread starter Lilavati
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and again comes the point of WHO decides at what point certain procedures become medically nessicary?
again i DO think a dr or nurse should have the right to refuse a procedure, assuming they havent taken a job thats primary purpose is that procedure (someone who is anti abortion taking a job at an abortion clinic for ANY reason should not be allowed to deny a patient, after all they chose that position!)
however i also think they should NOT be able to withhold information on who will...
if they have the right to say no they should at least have the deacency to say "but talk to the folks at front desk" or "let me call someone who can help you"
again i DO think a dr or nurse should have the right to refuse a procedure, assuming they havent taken a job thats primary purpose is that procedure (someone who is anti abortion taking a job at an abortion clinic for ANY reason should not be allowed to deny a patient, after all they chose that position!)
however i also think they should NOT be able to withhold information on who will...
if they have the right to say no they should at least have the deacency to say "but talk to the folks at front desk" or "let me call someone who can help you"
I agree that these people should not take a position at an abortion clinic.
But when I had to have my emergency termination it was done at a regular run of the mill hospital. and this is where all abortions are routinely done... at the hospital. not an abortion clinic.
So in THAT aspect I find it kind of silly to say "don't work there" when probably 1% or less of their job would involve abortions.
but I do agree with jobs that the title specifically revolves around abortions and other things of that nature.
But when I had to have my emergency termination it was done at a regular run of the mill hospital. and this is where all abortions are routinely done... at the hospital. not an abortion clinic.
So in THAT aspect I find it kind of silly to say "don't work there" when probably 1% or less of their job would involve abortions.
but I do agree with jobs that the title specifically revolves around abortions and other things of that nature.
That's a complicated issue. There was a time and place (and still are, I'm afraid) when people of certain races, genders, religions, etc, would have a very difficult time finding employment in certain fields, and the only reason was prejudice. That's why these laws exist: you can't not hire someone simply because they are black. Unfortunately, people being people, the laws are exploited. How often, I don't know. But it happens, and it would happen even more with something as controversal and political as abortion on the table. (Note, I'm talking about non-discrimination laws, not affirmative action, which is different.)
Are they good laws, or bad laws? Who knows. But this seems an invitation to abuse, especially since I can't imagine that this is that big of a problem.
If only 1% of your possible job involves abortions, then I have trouble imagining that they can't bring someone else in to do it . . . unless, of course, you are permited not to call that other person.
Are they good laws, or bad laws? Who knows. But this seems an invitation to abuse, especially since I can't imagine that this is that big of a problem.
If only 1% of your possible job involves abortions, then I have trouble imagining that they can't bring someone else in to do it . . . unless, of course, you are permited not to call that other person.
I admit I haven't read this particular piece of legislation. I think Miakoda brings a very good point about morals and forcing people to go against them.
I also am not sure why this legislation is actually needed in terms of abortions. I could deny treatment to anyone, assuming it wasn't life threatening right now without any new laws being passed. So whether or not they can force Dr's to perform one is really a mute point.
There does have to be a referral however, not direct, but info given to the patient.
If a Doc doesn't want to perform an abortion, he doesn't have to, and i'm quite certain that most doc's won't persue that field. It's seems odd, kind of like the thought of scientologists becoming Pharmacists just so they can deny people their medications. a pharmacist that doesn't sell drugs won't be in business long and a doctor that specializes in performing abortions, but refuses to do them won't work long either. There isn't much room for a doc that won't dispense drugs, but there are thousands of specialties or just general practice for a doc that won't perform abortions or give BC.
But since a lot like to tell them they should find other jobs, how about you guys put in the time and work, become a doc or pharamcist and ensure that there are people willing to perform those services??? That way you get to have your morals and others get to keep theirs. SOunds like a win win to me.
I also am not sure why this legislation is actually needed in terms of abortions. I could deny treatment to anyone, assuming it wasn't life threatening right now without any new laws being passed. So whether or not they can force Dr's to perform one is really a mute point.
There does have to be a referral however, not direct, but info given to the patient.
If a Doc doesn't want to perform an abortion, he doesn't have to, and i'm quite certain that most doc's won't persue that field. It's seems odd, kind of like the thought of scientologists becoming Pharmacists just so they can deny people their medications. a pharmacist that doesn't sell drugs won't be in business long and a doctor that specializes in performing abortions, but refuses to do them won't work long either. There isn't much room for a doc that won't dispense drugs, but there are thousands of specialties or just general practice for a doc that won't perform abortions or give BC.
But since a lot like to tell them they should find other jobs, how about you guys put in the time and work, become a doc or pharamcist and ensure that there are people willing to perform those services??? That way you get to have your morals and others get to keep theirs. SOunds like a win win to me.
That's the point. There's no reason why people who don't want to do these things would take these jobs under most circumstances . . . except to screw things up. There are some very narrow situations, say of a nurse saying she won't participate in a abortion at a large hospital, when its not her normal job, in which protections are necessary. Those protections are already in place, by statute, passed by Congress . . . not regulations passed by people appointed by the adminstration that are not put to vote. Notably, this is the same department of health and human serivices whose committee on birth control is headed by a man who thinks that BC destroys relationships because if a man has sex with a woman and she can't pregnant he will think of her as a mere sex object. (I'm not making this up). This is a massive attack, wrapped in PC, pious, project religious freedom language, on women's rights.
See I think that too much time and money is waisted on these issues from politicians and the administration. There are other problems our country has that needs great and immediate attention. I agree 1% if that nation wide.
I also feel if your going into the medical profession for anything you are going to find many things that go against your beliefs if you have strong beliefs. Anything in the medical field is very strongly taught that you have to put yourself aside, this is not about you or what you feel , it is about the patient. The patient is first.
I also feel if your going into the medical profession for anything you are going to find many things that go against your beliefs if you have strong beliefs. Anything in the medical field is very strongly taught that you have to put yourself aside, this is not about you or what you feel , it is about the patient. The patient is first.
It is entirely possible to work in any fields & still keep your faith and practice your beliefs. I don't see why Catholic Christians should not be doctors or nurses just because they're opposed to abortion & morally prevented from taking any part in it. I agree that they should not apply to work in abortion clinics because it makes absolutely no sense to do so. Other than that, it's their rights as much as any other person's right to refuse performing an abortion or supply the means to abortion.
This is not true. Even in restaurant or gas station you often see signs saying "Onwer reserves the right to refuse service to anyone". There are many, many doctors who are opposed to abortion don't provide the service at their clinic & would not prescribe any BC pills (for the purpose of BC for I know some may use it off-label). Anyway, if someone wants to have a procedure done, what's so hard about finding a doctor that will provide it & leave those who want nothing to do with it alone?
actually the medical field needs a lot more people that put their beliefs into their practice. Our medical field is strongly dictated by large pharma companies that have profit on the mind, not health, and protocols and treatments are more often being set by them. There are plenty of very good doctors that can not practice and help people they way they know is best, because their hands are tied by profit minded protocols. Their education is often funded by those same companies that have profit, not health, as their bottom line. They see only what they want them to see, and conceal the rest.
case in point. Diabetes (type II) is a set of symptoms almost entirely brought on because of diet. They blame genetics and stuff, and i'm sure in some cases it may play a part, but it is almost entirely diet related. In the 30's they treated people with nothing but diet change, very successfully. Today some more doctors are continuing that and having great results. But there wasn't "research". So Duke university did one and at the end of 6 weeks just over 80% were completely or nearly completely off any medications and those that were completely off had ZERO symptoms or clinical findings to indicate they had diabetes.
Doctors like this are fighting a huge fight with the ADA and societal ways of thinking. They spent over 50 million in research on type II last year, and cleaning out your refridgerator isn't supposed to be the cure. They sold 1.1 billion of metformin a popular diabetic drug for type II. Try changing diets, i mean really use that as your treatment protocol, you'd probably find yourself out of a job sooner than if you'd opt out of performing an abortion. It shouldn't be that way.
case in point. Diabetes (type II) is a set of symptoms almost entirely brought on because of diet. They blame genetics and stuff, and i'm sure in some cases it may play a part, but it is almost entirely diet related. In the 30's they treated people with nothing but diet change, very successfully. Today some more doctors are continuing that and having great results. But there wasn't "research". So Duke university did one and at the end of 6 weeks just over 80% were completely or nearly completely off any medications and those that were completely off had ZERO symptoms or clinical findings to indicate they had diabetes.
Doctors like this are fighting a huge fight with the ADA and societal ways of thinking. They spent over 50 million in research on type II last year, and cleaning out your refridgerator isn't supposed to be the cure. They sold 1.1 billion of metformin a popular diabetic drug for type II. Try changing diets, i mean really use that as your treatment protocol, you'd probably find yourself out of a job sooner than if you'd opt out of performing an abortion. It shouldn't be that way.
Just for the record I am against abortion and I never did anything with my schooling because I decided it wasn't for me.
For the sake of religion we were taught for example in my class that people with different religions might request you do certain things. Well I for one would not and so good thing I am not in that profession. Beliefs go way beyond abortion.
If someone has strong beliefs they should ask questions before they get the job to find if it fits them or not. If ones beliefs are against abortion there are hundreds of other good paying jobs they can have in different areas with the same degree that they would never have to worry about being ask to be involved in an abortion procedure. Wanna work in a hospital, go work in a children's hospital or one that deals with cardiology for example.
Yes patient is first and has every right to decide on their own health care. Doctors constantly advise this or that but it is the patients decision and right to decide to listen to the doctor or not.
For the sake of religion we were taught for example in my class that people with different religions might request you do certain things. Well I for one would not and so good thing I am not in that profession. Beliefs go way beyond abortion.
If someone has strong beliefs they should ask questions before they get the job to find if it fits them or not. If ones beliefs are against abortion there are hundreds of other good paying jobs they can have in different areas with the same degree that they would never have to worry about being ask to be involved in an abortion procedure. Wanna work in a hospital, go work in a children's hospital or one that deals with cardiology for example.
Yes patient is first and has every right to decide on their own health care. Doctors constantly advise this or that but it is the patients decision and right to decide to listen to the doctor or not.