San Francisco's new pet law

[dobesgalore]

I agree that the government shouldn't say what can and can't be sold by stores. However, I think their reasoning behind it is looking out for the best intrest of the animals. There are an awful lot already homeless in shelters now, and strays from past owners who just arn't responsible. Not nuetering, spaying keeping them in fenced yards etc... It does also support the irresponsible breeders out there. Its about these animals lives. They have no say about who buys them, or how they are sold. They just go where they are taken. Its the luck of the draw. I don't live in San Francisco, but I am really hoping Alabama will pass such a law. It does however need to be governed as in the types of animals included. Separating pet animals from feeder type animals.

 

[ACooper]

I agree that the government shouldn't say what can and can't be sold by stores. However, I think their reasoning behind it is looking out for the best intrest of the animals. There are an awful lot already homeless in shelters now, and strays from past owners who just arn't responsible. Not nuetering, spaying keeping them in fenced yards etc... It does also support the irresponsible breeders out there. Its about these animals lives. They have no say about who buys them, or how they are sold. They just go where they are taken. Its the luck of the draw. I don't live in San Francisco, but I am really hoping Alabama will pass such a law. It does however need to be governed as in the types of animals included. Separating pet animals from feeder type animals.

Oh, I have NO disagreement in the fact that they want to slow down/change the influx of 'unwanted' pets into the shelters, and I definitely agree it's a sad thing to know all these animals are put down on a daily basis.......the numbers I see from other areas boggle my brain!

I stand firm on the notion of NOT giving the government a "doorway" into telling store owners what LEGAL items they can or cannot sell. I am not a paranoid whistle blower, I don't think this law is an attempt to ban all dog ownership, nothing like that. But it WILL set a precedent on the sale or distribution of LEGAL items and I will not agree with something like that.

If they want to clean up the puppy mills..........BAN PUPPYMILLS. Don't make new laws of how they are run, BAN THEM, period. That would make it easier to sock it to store owners who BUY/SELL pups from an illegal source. Make it mandatory that these store owners can show PROOF of where these pups have come from..........the source can be checked out anytime, sort of like a food inspector who shows up at a restaurant.

Heck, if they just ENFORCED many of the laws already on the books, there wouldn't be a need for new laws that won't be enforced. JMO.

 

[dobesgalore]

Actualy, banning puppy mills would be the way to go. But how can that be done? How can every single miller out there be found and stopped? How can they be stopped from reopening their "buisness" again maybe elsewhere? But I agree. Stopping them would in turn stop petshops from buying from them. I feel like it be harder to ban millers vs. governing an already established legal buisness. Unless maybe pet shops should have to produce some sort of proof of health testing and guarentees from the original breeder? Maybe a contact to the breeder the animals came from should also be supplied to the customer who buys an animal at a pet shop?

 

[ACooper]

Well that would come back to the AKC and CKC registered puppies these mills crank out more often than not. It would be a simple matter in my mind to KNOW where tons of puppies are coming from. The dog registries document these pups right? Also, these same stores could show documentation upon request as to WHERE these pups came from. Wouldn't be that hard to pinpoint where the mills are, where they've moved to, and who is running them with about an hour or so worth of work.........at least you wouldn't think so.

And sure, some papers could be forged........but that is yet another crime to go down for and would make SOME people stop and think over the worth of committing this crime.

If a place is cranking out more than xx number of pups per year, THAT could be considered milling........and milling could = illegal.

 

[darkchild16]

What about putting a waiting period on dogs sold at pet shops or period. That will discourage alot of it, not be interpretted any other way cant be used for any other purpose. Set a certain time lik 2-3 days where they have to keep thepuppy before releasing it

 

[dobesgalore]

That all makes total sense. But I have a feeling its one of those things that "easier said than done", ya know?

 

[~Jessie~]

Sex is legal, but you can't go and buy a hooker.

A child isn't allowed into a pornography store, even though porn is legal.

Oxycontin is legal, but you need a prescription to buy it from the pharmacy.

I don't love the government, but this is one law that I can agree with.

Puppies and kittens are completely different from water bottles. First of all, they are actual living beings. They need to be cared for, and they can live well into their teens. You can go buy a puppy or kitten without even filling out an application. You can just pay for it and take it away. With puppy stores comes parvo, and other nice diseases. I'm sure that thousands of people are screwed over by petstores every year... tons of dogs from puppy stores die from parvo, intestinal diseases, etc, etc.

Once they are adults, dogs/cats that are unneutered can cause serious problems. They can create their own feral populations, and pop out kittens/puppies really quickly.

Not to mention, they can become a health concern, overrun native wildlife, bite/attack people, etc.

An unspayed female cat, her mate and all of their offspring, producing 2 litters per year, with 2.8 surviving kittens per litter can total 11,606,077 cats in just nine years.

You know who is stuck cleaning this mess up? In many cases it ends up falling back onto the government. Our county animal control shelter took in 64,656 dogs/cats last year. 13,434 were euthanized. At $60 a pop for an adoption animal, they aren't raking in the money. Tax payer money goes to this service.

I think that mills are the ones that mainly need to be targeted, but as long as petstores sell puppies/kittens, these mills are going to continue to exist and churn out cheap pets for big profits.

Yeah, selling puppies and kittens in stores is legal at the moment... but I really do think it should be banned.

 

[Jules]

Sex is legal, but you can't go and buy a hooker.

A child isn't allowed into a pornography store, even though porn is legal.

Oxycontin is legal, but you need a prescription to buy it from the pharmacy.

I don't love the government, but this is one law that I can agree with.

Puppies and kittens are completely different from water bottles. First of all, they are actual living beings. They need to be cared for, and they can live well into their teens. You can go buy a puppy or kitten without even filling out an application. You can just pay for it and take it away. With puppy stores comes parvo, and other nice diseases. I'm sure that thousands of people are screwed over by petstores every year... tons of dogs from puppy stores die from parvo, intestinal diseases, etc, etc.

Once they are adults, dogs/cats that are unneutered can cause serious problems. They can create their own feral populations, and pop out kittens/puppies really quickly.

Not to mention, they can become a health concern, overrun native wildlife, bite/attack people, etc.

An unspayed female cat, her mate and all of their offspring, producing 2 litters per year, with 2.8 surviving kittens per litter can total 11,606,077 cats in just nine years.

You know who is stuck cleaning this mess up? In many cases it ends up falling back onto the government. Our county animal control shelter took in 64,656 dogs/cats last year. 13,434 were euthanized. At $60 a pop for an adoption animal, they aren't raking in the money. Tax payer money goes to this service.

I think that mills are the ones that mainly need to be targeted, but as long as petstores sell puppies/kittens, these mills are going to continue to exist and churn out cheap pets for big profits.

Yeah, selling puppies and kittens in stores is legal at the moment... but I really do think it should be banned.

:hail::hail::hail:

 

[babymomma]

Sex is legal, but you can't go and buy a hooker.

A child isn't allowed into a pornography store, even though porn is legal.

Oxycontin is legal, but you need a prescription to buy it from the pharmacy.

I don't love the government, but this is one law that I can agree with.

Puppies and kittens are completely different from water bottles. First of all, they are actual living beings. They need to be cared for, and they can live well into their teens. You can go buy a puppy or kitten without even filling out an application. You can just pay for it and take it away. With puppy stores comes parvo, and other nice diseases. I'm sure that thousands of people are screwed over by petstores every year... tons of dogs from puppy stores die from parvo, intestinal diseases, etc, etc.

Once they are adults, dogs/cats that are unneutered can cause serious problems. They can create their own feral populations, and pop out kittens/puppies really quickly.

Not to mention, they can become a health concern, overrun native wildlife, bite/attack people, etc.

An unspayed female cat, her mate and all of their offspring, producing 2 litters per year, with 2.8 surviving kittens per litter can total 11,606,077 cats in just nine years.

You know who is stuck cleaning this mess up? In many cases it ends up falling back onto the government. Our county animal control shelter took in 64,656 dogs/cats last year. 13,434 were euthanized. At $60 a pop for an adoption animal, they aren't raking in the money. Tax payer money goes to this service.

I think that mills are the ones that mainly need to be targeted, but as long as petstores sell puppies/kittens, these mills are going to continue to exist and churn out cheap pets for big profits.

Yeah, selling puppies and kittens in stores is legal at the moment... but I really do think it should be banned.

:hail::hail::hail::hail:

You said it better then I ever could.. And i agree with 100% of what you said.

 

[Deathcricket]

I don't love the government, but this is one law that I can agree with.

Fat people are completely different from skinny people. First of all, they are actual healthy. Fat people need to be cared for, and they can die early from stuff like heart disease. You can go buy a cheeseburger or large soda without even filling out an application. You can just pay for it and take it away. When McDonalds came to our town, everyone just got fat. I'm sure that thousands of people are screwed over by fast food places every year... tons of people die from heart disease, diabetes, strokes, etc, etc.

Once they are adults, people that eat fast food can have serious problems. They can consume to many calories, and pack on the pounds really quickly.

Not to mention, they can become a health concern, look hideous, not fit into their clothes, etc.

An average person eats out at least once a day. Each meal contains extreme levels of sodium, cholestral, fat, etc.

You know who is stuck cleaning this mess up? In many cases it ends up falling back onto the government. Our county hospital is overloaded with obese people. 13,434 have a stroke every day. At $60 a pop for a diabetes shot, they are raking in the money. Tax payer money goes to this service.

I think that obese people are the ones that mainly need to be targeted, but as long as fast food stores sell cheeseburgers, these places are going to continue to exist and churn out lardasses for big profits.

Yeah, buying a cheeseburger in a fast food restaurant is legal at the moment... but I really do think it should be banned.

Fixed for ya. :lol-sign:

 

[InLimbo87]

Fixed for ya. :lol-sign:

Actually that wasn't the intention of the argument. It's apples to oranges on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

Next time consider coming up with your own legit argument rather than that. Most would consider that rude, and I believe my iq went down a few points subsequent.

 

[Fran101]

Actually that wasn't the intention of the argument. It's apples to oranges on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

Next time consider coming up with your own legit argument rather than that. Most would consider that rude, and I believe my iq went down a few points subsequent.

I agree.

where the heck did that come from?? Its not even apples and oranges, its like apples and hairdryers!!

Oh and Ill add a " :hail: " to jessies post. lots of great points!

I think with no more puppy stores around, people will be forced to do more research and to think twice. It won't just be like "lets go to the mall to get some shoes.. oh look! puppies! lets get one!!"

 

[Laurelin]

I don't think people will be forced to research at all. Every single day in our newspaper there is an ad for 'yorkies, schnoodles, morkies" etc etc etc. Basically any teacup or designer breed you could want. Mills will STILL exist and still sell to people either way. Especially with the frequency of mills with really fancy websites. Eliminate pet stores and it's still super easy to get a dog.

 

[Jules]

I dislike nothing more than people not getting the argument and tweaking the argument to the point of it being pointless.

 

[CaliTerp07]

I don't think people will be forced to research at all. Every single day in our newspaper there is an ad for 'yorkies, schnoodles, morkies" etc etc etc. Basically any teacup or designer breed you could want. Mills will STILL exist and still sell to people either way. Especially with the frequency of mills with really fancy websites. Eliminate pet stores and it's still super easy to get a dog.

But it's one additional step. With this instead of going to the mall for shoes and coming home with a puppy, you have to consciously choose to get a puppy, and go out in search of it.

 

[ACooper]

Sex is legal, but you can't go and buy a hooker.

A child isn't allowed into a pornography store, even though porn is legal.

Oxycontin is legal, but you need a prescription to buy it from the pharmacy.

I don't love the government, but this is one law that I can agree with.

Sex is legal, but it isn't an object to own...........and in some places, it IS perfectly legal to buy a hooker, LOL

Pornography has age regulations on it, just like alcohol and tobacco. If those stores sell to minors and get caught, they go down.........just as I think pet stores supporting mills should do. But the fact is, they are allowed to sell those things WITHIN the guidelines of the law.

Narcotics like Oxyconton (sp?) are not banned from retailers selling, they just have regulations slapped on them the same as tobacco, alcohol, etc..

Point is, controlling what LEGAL things a store can sell is not part of the government's job.........if they made mills ILLEGAL, then they could slap the stores supporting them.

Puppies and kittens are completely different from water bottles. First of all, they are actual living beings. They need to be cared for, and they can live well into their teens. You can go buy a puppy or kitten without even filling out an application. You can just pay for it and take it away. With puppy stores comes parvo, and other nice diseases. I'm sure that thousands of people are screwed over by petstores every year... tons of dogs from puppy stores die from parvo, intestinal diseases, etc, etc..

Don't disagree with you on that one tiny bit........except to say that we can't have it both ways. Either your pet is your PROPERTY (barring illegal abuse) or it's a living breathing creature that needs the government to govern the treatment.

We can't make a stand for both.......just won't work. Want the government telling you when and where to neuter your dog? Want them saying you can't leave the dog unattended? Want them telling you when, where, and how much to vaccinate your dog? Perhaps even what to feed your dog? Wonder how long it would take for Purina to own politicians? All of that can go right back to "living breathing creature" instead of PROPERTY.

Once they are adults, dogs/cats that are unneutered can cause serious problems. They can create their own feral populations, and pop out kittens/puppies really quickly.

Not to mention, they can become a health concern, overrun native wildlife, bite/attack people, etc.

An unspayed female cat, her mate and all of their offspring, producing 2 litters per year, with 2.8 surviving kittens per litter can total 11,606,077 cats in just nine years.

You know who is stuck cleaning this mess up? In many cases it ends up falling back onto the government. Our county animal control shelter took in 64,656 dogs/cats last year. 13,434 were euthanized. At $60 a pop for an adoption animal, they aren't raking in the money. Tax payer money goes to this service.

I think that mills are the ones that mainly need to be targeted, but as long as petstores sell puppies/kittens, these mills are going to continue to exist and churn out cheap pets for big profits.

Yeah, selling puppies and kittens in stores is legal at the moment... but I really do think it should be banned.

Again Jessie, all of that is true, true, true..........and after banning the stores in San Fran doesn't cure everything for them, they will target want ads, posters, and places like Craig's list because pets from those places can and do cause all the things you've listed out there. After that isn't the magic they'd hoped for..........where next? Think they can ban the whole internet? LOL

They need to stop all the dicking around and punish the naughty child instead of keeping the whole class in for recess.

 

[Deathcricket]

I dislike nothing more than people not getting the argument and tweaking the argument to the point of it being pointless.

Banning fat people from eating hamburgers vs Banning stupid people from buying pets.

Both are one group of people asking for changes that directly affect a 2nd group of people simply because they don't agree. Both are equally a waste of time. Fat people will just buy lunches from multiple sources, dumb people will just buy dogs off craig's list, or out of the back of a pickup truck on a whim. Ahh well, I thought it was a good comparison.. Dropping it.

Like my post, there is no way this law will even be remotely effective. ACooper is much more effective at arguing logically, so I will leave them to it. :rofl1:

 

[corgipower]

I don't think people will be forced to research at all. Every single day in our newspaper there is an ad for 'yorkies, schnoodles, morkies" etc etc etc. Basically any teacup or designer breed you could want. Mills will STILL exist and still sell to people either way. Especially with the frequency of mills with really fancy websites. Eliminate pet stores and it's still super easy to get a dog.

Yes, but to buy from the newspaper, you have to specifically flip to that section of classifieds. To buy online, you have to go actually look for the listings.

My first dog was a Pomeranian when I was a kid. I knew nothing about dogs, my whole family knew nothing about dogs. We were at the mall, walked past a pet store, and a lady was standing in front of the store holding a fuzz ball. We ended up buying it just because.

Not the ideal way to do things, and not the smartest thing we ever did. We weren't looking to own a dog, we were far from prepared to have a dog and if we hadn't walked past a cute little fluffy puppy, we wouldn't have gotten one.

Don't disagree with you on that one tiny bit........except to say that we can't have it both ways. Either your pet is your PROPERTY (barring illegal abuse) or it's a living breathing creature that needs the government to govern the treatment.

Well, the government does tell us what we can and can't do with our property. I can't turn the yard into a garbage pit, I can't build without permits, I can't drive my car in whatever fashion we see fit. Some properties can't be used for businesses, some can't be used for homes.

I can own gasoline and fertilizer, but the government doesn't allow me to combine them.

 

[LindaJD]

If we leave the word "Dog" out of the equation, it gets rid of quite a bit of the emotion this ban/law invokes.........so lets do that for a moment. Let's replace the word "Dog" with some other LEGAL thing shall we? Say like........Bottled water.

So they are attempting to pass a law banning store owners to sell bottled water. The plastic bottles are bad for the environment, and not EVERYONE recycles. If we could educate and get EVERYONE to recycle the problem would be solved, but alas that is not going to happen so we take away the right for store owners to SELL bottled water, a perfectly LEGAL item to buy and sell........problem solved.

No, that is not how it is supposed to go down. If we OUTLAW bottled water, then it is fine and dandy to prohibit the sale of bottled water...........unless and until THAT happens, I can and should be able to sell bottled water all day long if that's my choice. If I am against bottled water, I don't have to sell it in my store. Period. The end.

All that said, I am against puppy mills and pet stores selling puppies to whoever walks in with cash..........but it IS NOT RIGHT FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO TELL STORE OWNERS WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT SELL AS LONG AS IT IS A LEGAL ITEM TO BUY OR OWN.

There is a town near me that did ban the sale of bottled water, a few months later the A. General shot the ban down. The town is trying to get the ban going again.

Town Bans Bottled Water Sales - Boston News Story - WCVB Boston

 

[ACooper]

Well, the government does tell us what we can and can't do with our property. I can't turn the yard into a garbage pit, I can't build without permits, I can't drive my car in whatever fashion we see fit. Some properties can't be used for businesses, some can't be used for homes.

I can own gasoline and fertilizer, but the government doesn't allow me to combine them.

Yes, this is also true.........and most of the time you KNOW what kind of property you are buying beforehand (zoned for residential/zoned for business) so you have the choice to buy or not.

Some of your points fall into the "barring illegal abuse" category, like driving your vehicle any way you want, turning your yard into a garbage pit.......and my favorite of all examples, mixing gasoline and fertilizer :rofl1: (if I haven't mentioned it lately, I love you CP, LMAO!) All those things pose can pose an immediate health hazard to other people and have hence had laws made previously. I can even throw another example out there for you.........I live in town, I can't have cows, pigs, chickens, horses, or goats even though this is MY property! But that would/could pose health hazards, not to mention the smell and noise to OTHER people trying to enjoy THEIR property, hhahaha