On voting for McCain
- Thread starter noludoru
- Start date
I suppose the difference here is what we mean by "advocate." By all means, tell people not to have abortions. Encourage alternatives. Let them know how you feel about it. Please. I'd like more people to realize that there are alternatives, and help for those to chose them.
However, what I meant by "advocate" was advocate making those beliefs into law, by making voting choices based heavily on an candate's abortion stand. Now, I don't know if you do this or not . .. there are certainly many other reasons to vote for McCain. But, unfortunately, there are many who DO vote on that basis. And there are many more who actively lobby the government to pass such laws. They are the ones I object to, the ones who I say should look some of these women in the eye . . . because they are the ones who are willing to force their belief on others, even if it is through the proxy of the law.
As many people vote for McCain on the basis that he's opposed to abortion are the many people who will vote for Obama just because he's for it.
I agree with you that this should not be the only deciding factor, but it is clearly a very important one. After all, there are issues that are more important than others - and none are as important as life itself & the family in which is is entrusted.
I agree with you that this should not be the only deciding factor, but it is clearly a very important one. After all, there are issues that are more important than others - and none are as important as life itself & the family in which is is entrusted.
I am not going to continue the abortion debate, because it is obviously never ending, and we have all expressed how we feel about it.
You say your concern things being placed into law to force people one way or the other. But this isn't just a concern with abortion. It is a concern with EVERYthing.
If you do not want anyone's beliefs forced on others, than I am assuming you aren't voting? Because there will be issues with that on BOTH sides. And I am much more concerned with what will be forced on me or what rights will be taken away if Obama becomes president.
You say your concern things being placed into law to force people one way or the other. But this isn't just a concern with abortion. It is a concern with EVERYthing.
If you do not want anyone's beliefs forced on others, than I am assuming you aren't voting? Because there will be issues with that on BOTH sides. And I am much more concerned with what will be forced on me or what rights will be taken away if Obama becomes president.
Of course I will be voting. And yes, I will be voting for Obama. Am I concerned about the rights he might take away? Yes. On the other hand, having seen the rights taken away, ignored and corrupted under the Republicans, I'm not impressed with their way of doing things either. Going on Obama's campaign promises, combined with the fact he's going to have to deal with the Supreme Court (which he can stablize as moderate, but can't swing left), I don't think my rights are in a heck of a lot of danger . . . at least, no more than they've been for the last 8 years. That is, of course, widely open to debate. It comes down to which news sources you read and believe.
I will also point out that the right to determine what happens to my womb, particularly when there are health consequences, is a whole heck of a lot more personal than any right Obama seems to threaten, let alone SAYS he will threaten, or states he holds in contempt. But that's a whole other debate that basically comes down to whether I believe what he says about his intended policies, and that gets us into ACORN, socialism, Ayers, government insurance vs. socialized health care, and a whole bunch of topics that are just as much of a screaming match as abortion, without the virtue of actually being philosophically interesting.
Notably, it was NOT a forgone conclusion that I would vote for Obama. In the absence of viable third party candiates, it was going to be one or the other. But I have been a long time supporter of McCain. My vote was his to lose. He lost it.
I will also point out that the right to determine what happens to my womb, particularly when there are health consequences, is a whole heck of a lot more personal than any right Obama seems to threaten, let alone SAYS he will threaten, or states he holds in contempt. But that's a whole other debate that basically comes down to whether I believe what he says about his intended policies, and that gets us into ACORN, socialism, Ayers, government insurance vs. socialized health care, and a whole bunch of topics that are just as much of a screaming match as abortion, without the virtue of actually being philosophically interesting.
Notably, it was NOT a forgone conclusion that I would vote for Obama. In the absence of viable third party candiates, it was going to be one or the other. But I have been a long time supporter of McCain. My vote was his to lose. He lost it.
Okay. I think I get it now . . . pardon me for being so obtuse before 
I think perhaps it is Lilavati and I who have missed the point . . . . you're opposed to anyone else's beliefs being imposed upon you, but are for your beliefs being imposed upon those of us who aren't moral enough to share your convictions. Got it now.
And, I'm doing some reading up on the Weather Underground and so far, I'm seeing that, in retrospect, the Weather Underground was, to the established regime at the time, roughly the equivalent of Thomas Jefferson's gang of ruffians to King George. They were called traitors and treasonous too. They blew up things, destroyed government property, etc.
I think perhaps it is Lilavati and I who have missed the point . . . . you're opposed to anyone else's beliefs being imposed upon you, but are for your beliefs being imposed upon those of us who aren't moral enough to share your convictions. Got it now.
And, I'm doing some reading up on the Weather Underground and so far, I'm seeing that, in retrospect, the Weather Underground was, to the established regime at the time, roughly the equivalent of Thomas Jefferson's gang of ruffians to King George. They were called traitors and treasonous too. They blew up things, destroyed government property, etc.
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Okay. I think I get it now . . . pardon me for being so obtuse before
I think perhaps it is Lilavati and I who have missed the point . . . . you're opposed to anyone else's beliefs being imposed upon you, but are for your beliefs being imposed upon those of us who aren't moral enough to share your convictions. Got it now.
I think perhaps it is Lilavati and I who have missed the point . . . . you're opposed to anyone else's beliefs being imposed upon you, but are for your beliefs being imposed upon those of us who aren't moral enough to share your convictions. Got it now.
I just got back from a long meeting and a (very) late lunch. I may have missed a few posts, but as far as I know, I haven't even try to impose my belief on anyone.. just share it as it is in the most honest way I know how.
I sort of have a stupid question that I am wondering about.
I know Mr. Obama supports Universal Healthcare (which is also an issue for me)....but does he also want abortion to be included on that healthcare plan?
I am curious because that plan would be funded by us, the tax payers, and would essentially be forcing us to support something that many of us dont. We would essentially loose our "Choice" in that particular matter.
~Cate
I know Mr. Obama supports Universal Healthcare (which is also an issue for me)....but does he also want abortion to be included on that healthcare plan?
I am curious because that plan would be funded by us, the tax payers, and would essentially be forcing us to support something that many of us dont. We would essentially loose our "Choice" in that particular matter.
~Cate
Actually, he supports government-provided insurance, though as an additional option, not instead of private insurance. That is to say, he wants to make government insurance widely available as an alternative to or a supplement to private insurance. Although this might make health care more universal, it is not Universal Health care. I have no idea why everyone seems to think he wants to install the British or Canadian system . . . that's not what he's proposed. Its not single payer, and its not mandatory for anyone but children. Like it or not, its not what I keep hearing it described as.
That aside, I don't know the answer to your question. I know that some abortions are paid for by government funding, and I think it varies with the state (so it might be state funding, and not Federal). Also, define abortion here . . . there are medically necessiarly abortions (say, etropic pregnacies) and those SHOULD be covered. ("Sorry ma'am, both you and your baby will die, but your insurance won't cover it because its an abortion" . . . that would be lovely, really.) Now, if you had one of the muliple options for private insurance under his plan, I guess that would depend on your insurance company . . . and I have no idea if insurance companies provide benefits for elective abortions, it was never on my comparison shopping list.
That aside, I don't know the answer to your question. I know that some abortions are paid for by government funding, and I think it varies with the state (so it might be state funding, and not Federal). Also, define abortion here . . . there are medically necessiarly abortions (say, etropic pregnacies) and those SHOULD be covered. ("Sorry ma'am, both you and your baby will die, but your insurance won't cover it because its an abortion" . . . that would be lovely, really.) Now, if you had one of the muliple options for private insurance under his plan, I guess that would depend on your insurance company . . . and I have no idea if insurance companies provide benefits for elective abortions, it was never on my comparison shopping list.
I just kind of look what happened in Hawaii -- they installed a gov't provided health care system for children....and the people that were providing health care for their children stopped paying for it. They had to stop the program. MA right now is way over budget, most likely for the same reasons.
Do you really think that people arent going to stop paying for their own healthcare when they can get it from free through the gov't? And even if I choose to remain with my healthcare plan it doesnt change that I'll still be paying the taxes that support other people's insurance...insurance that could very well include something that in most cases I find reprehensable.
I do agree that medically necissary for the *mother* can and should be paid for by insurance.
~Cate
Do you really think that people arent going to stop paying for their own healthcare when they can get it from free through the gov't? And even if I choose to remain with my healthcare plan it doesnt change that I'll still be paying the taxes that support other people's insurance...insurance that could very well include something that in most cases I find reprehensable.
I do agree that medically necissary for the *mother* can and should be paid for by insurance.
~Cate
The last I knew of the situation was that they don't KNOW if he was born in Africa. They are claiming that the Hawaiian birth certificate is a phony/forgery and there is no evidence that he was born in any hospital of Hawaii in 1961. Also, some of his own relatives supposedly claim that he was born in Africa.
Further more, his mother married a man from Indonesia and moved the whole family there, which the Berg lawsuit claims that IF he ever had an American citizenship that it would be null by that fact.
There is supposed evidence that Obama had an Indonesian passport in 1981, and more supposed evidence that he holds a Kenyan citizenship.
It's all quite an interesting situation if there are any facts/evidence in any of it. What a scandal that will make should he get elected only to be thrown out for things that should be confirmed BEFORE he is allowed to run, LOL
I have summarized most of it, but here are some links to read if you are interested:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/980050/obama_lawsuit_citizen_or_not.html?cat=17
http://www.obamacrimes.com/
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/philip-j-berg-obama-lawsuit-update-temporary-restraining-order-philadelphia-federal-court-obama-being-served-philadelphia-times-herald-obama-not-us-citizen-update/
Further more, his mother married a man from Indonesia and moved the whole family there, which the Berg lawsuit claims that IF he ever had an American citizenship that it would be null by that fact.
There is supposed evidence that Obama had an Indonesian passport in 1981, and more supposed evidence that he holds a Kenyan citizenship.
It's all quite an interesting situation if there are any facts/evidence in any of it. What a scandal that will make should he get elected only to be thrown out for things that should be confirmed BEFORE he is allowed to run, LOL
I have summarized most of it, but here are some links to read if you are interested:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/980050/obama_lawsuit_citizen_or_not.html?cat=17
http://www.obamacrimes.com/
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/philip-j-berg-obama-lawsuit-update-temporary-restraining-order-philadelphia-federal-court-obama-being-served-philadelphia-times-herald-obama-not-us-citizen-update/
Have you even SEEN Obama's commericals? I have never seen so much hate in my life. I have yet to see ONE McCain ad here, because our TVs 'HERE' our full of Obama ads and calling McCain a liar.
I am for McCain, there is not one thing I like about Obama.
And I agree 110% with Sparks19 first post. (Page 8, post #76)
I am for McCain, there is not one thing I like about Obama.
And I agree 110% with Sparks19 first post. (Page 8, post #76)