On voting for McCain

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For those that think McCain's health care plan is better I ask you, Why?

The only people it really does anything for are those that pay high deductible HSA accounts, not a bad deal, but it does nothing for those that have employee paid insurance or good private insurance.

But taken a step beyond that, and one thing that was brought up in the 2nd debate and nobody really seems to talk about is what it would allow the insurance companies to do. Every year in our state we fight a bill that tries to get pushed thru that allows insurance companies to bypass state mandates, and set up shop in states with very lax insurance laws, but sell insurance to other states with tougher laws under the home state rules.

Our state has good laws that protect consumers and providers. If people think they have a hard time getting things covered under their insurance now, just wait. You'll possibly have cheaper insurance under McCains plan, and maybe more people will have it, but on thing is for sure, the amount of things covered will go down. I can almost promise that. paying for HC insurance that covers nothing is not an answer either, but think of the money the ins companies could make when they don't have to cover squat, but still get to take your premium payments every year.

So for those that think McCain's plan is better I'd really like to know why? Just becaues people don't use the word "socialized" and "universal" when talking about it? Because the nuts and bolts of the plan are junk and worse for the American people.
 
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But taken a step beyond that, and one thing that was brought up in the 2nd debate and nobody really seems to talk about is what it would allow the insurance companies to do. Every year in our state we fight a bill that tries to get pushed thru that allows insurance companies to bypass state mandates, and set up shop in states with very lax insurance laws, but sell insurance to other states with tougher laws under the home state rules.

Our state has good laws that protect consumers and providers. If people think they have a hard time getting things covered under their insurance now, just wait. You'll possibly have cheaper insurance under McCains plan, and maybe more people will have it, but on thing is for sure, the amount of things covered will go down. I can almost promise that. paying for HC insurance that covers nothing is not an answer either, but think of the money the ins companies could make when they don't have to cover squat, but still get to take your premium payments every year.
Superb point!
 

Pam111

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Lil, then what happens to the Medicaid system? For instance, I know many people who can afford insurance for their entire families...at the very least for their kids. But they choose to ride the Medicaid system. How is the government seriously going to intervene on each individual's behalf and force them to change?
I'm just curious what the state's income limits are for Medicaid? It's weird that it varies so much from state to state. Here, for one person, you cannot make over 730 (something very close to that--can't remember the exact number) per month to qualify for Medicaid. No way anyone with an income that low can afford private insurance
 

zoe08

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I don't think it's wrong to spend lots campaigning..not sure about McCain , but Obama gets millions of donations.
McCain and Obama both said they would accept public funding.

Well Obama backed out and did not accept it. So he is free to raise money from private donations (whose paying him?) and raised around 150$ million just in September.

McCain accepted public funding and is limited to spending $84 million over the whole campaign.
 

Lilavati

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McCain and Obama both said they would accept public funding.

Well Obama backed out and did not accept it. So he is free to raise money from private donations (whose paying him?) and raised around 150$ million just in September.

McCain accepted public funding and is limited to spending $84 million over the whole campaign.
That was not one of Obama's stellar moments, I'll definately give you that.
 

MelissaCato

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So for those that think McCain's plan is better I'd really like to know why? Just becaues people don't use the word "socialized" and "universal" when talking about it? Because the nuts and bolts of the plan are junk and worse for the American people.
I agree. McCains plan is disturbing compaired to Obama's.

But, this election isn't totally about healthcare, it's about the exectutive, legislative and judicial branchs of our government following the oath of office (protect and defend the Constitution) .. and clearly both McCain and Obama have no intention to do so.

All judicial, executive and legislative branches should follow their oaths of office on demand ... that is what people should be concerned about.

Apparently people don't care anymore. I sure hope Chuck Baldwin and Ron Paul voters can flip this November Election. Too much to hope for huh ?
 

borzoimom

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McCain and Obama both said they would accept public funding.

Well Obama backed out and did not accept it. So he is free to raise money from private donations (whose paying him?) and raised around 150$ million just in September.

McCain accepted public funding and is limited to spending $84 million over the whole campaign.
You got that right and the limits of donation not to mention whom is highly questionable to say the least...
 

Miakoda

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I'm just curious what the state's income limits are for Medicaid? It's weird that it varies so much from state to state. Here, for one person, you cannot make over 730 (something very close to that--can't remember the exact number) per month to qualify for Medicaid. No way anyone with an income that low can afford private insurance

My younger brother's children have Medicaid. And so did his wife until recently as she just gave birth to their 5th child. All I know is he makes about $30,000 a year.

That's just what pisses me off. When my husband changed jobs to get better insurance for us, some ignoramus tried to tell us that my pregnancy would be a pre-existing condition. Well, I freaked out, but I did talk to the doctor and the financial person at the doc's office. The doc was completely sympathetic and agreed to take me on Medicaid. However, do you know that I had several people that actually told me "Don't you think that's abusing the system? You can afford it."

I'm sorry, but f-that. I'm still paying off crap for Cole, much less Carson and yet I get to pay for others to have unlimited number of children using the same doctors and going to the same hospitals as I do. In fact, so many women protested, that LSU shut down their OB program at LSU's Earl K. Long hospital (the charity hospital in Baton Rouge). It seems those women were unhappy that they weren't staying in the Taj Mahal and continued to use the other hospital....since you cannot turn away a woman in labor.

This is an issue that gets to me. I'm tired of paying out the wazoo for others yet when I need to use the services that I PAY FOR, I'm denied and/or fussed at for thinking to do so.
 

Pam111

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My younger brother's children have Medicaid. And so did his wife until recently as she just gave birth to their 5th child. All I know is he makes about $30,000 a year.

That's just what pisses me off. When my husband changed jobs to get better insurance for us, some ignoramus tried to tell us that my pregnancy would be a pre-existing condition. Well, I freaked out, but I did talk to the doctor and the financial person at the doc's office. The doc was completely sympathetic and agreed to take me on Medicaid. However, do you know that I had several people that actually told me "Don't you think that's abusing the system? You can afford it."

I'm sorry, but f-that. I'm still paying off crap for Cole, much less Carson and yet I get to pay for others to have unlimited number of children using the same doctors and going to the same hospitals as I do. In fact, so many women protested, that LSU shut down their OB program at LSU's Earl K. Long hospital (the charity hospital in Baton Rouge). It seems those women were unhappy that they weren't staying in the Taj Mahal and continued to use the other hospital....since you cannot turn away a woman in labor.

This is an issue that gets to me. I'm tired of paying out the wazoo for others yet when I need to use the services that I PAY FOR, I'm denied and/or fussed at for thinking to do so.
I just think there needs to be more universal standards or something. The 2 states I have lived in (Michigan and New York), it is hard to get assistance and you do actually need to be very low income. But then I hear stories on here about people in other states with much higher incomes getting assistance. It just seems really unfair

Oh, but I don't have a problem with you using Medicaid. If you can't get insurance and you're pregnant, that's the time to have it
 

Miakoda

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Here's my question though:

Let's say you don't have insurance. And I definitely believe that a pregnant woman, no matter the circumstances, should have access to healthcare for the baby's sake at the very least. So there's a local charity hospital that has some of the best teaching doctors in the region. And they run a great program with what they have. But, the hospital is old, pregnant woman must share a room. etc.

Now those with private insurance can go to 1 of 2 hospitals that have OB programs. Both have nice private rooms. And one is a nationally recognized hospital for their care (espeically the NICU....Woman's Hospital in Baton Rouge). Not to mention the food at one of them is absolutely delicious!

Now, do those without insurance have the right to demand to go to the same hospital as those with private insurance because the extras are better? The doctor care is on-par no matter where you are. But the extras (private rooms, t.v.s, cable, wireless internet, food you get to order whenever..& whatever) are far different.

Should I honestly have to pay for woman, many of whom can afford insurance but chose not to, to have all the extras?

That's what irks me the most. By no means do I want someone to go with doctor care from someone with a made-up degree or who shows up drunk 75% of the time. However, the fact that I'm still paying off bills because I must provide the same cable and internet access to uninsured women pisses me off.

I'm grateful that I've never been without insurance. Sure, it's been a huge financial sacrifice at times, but I've always made the right choice is forfeiting other things (pizza nights, movies, etc.) to have it. But, if I were ever in the situation of not having it and I was told I must go to the local charity hospital, then I would. No problem.
 

Pam111

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Yeah, that must be something that varies a lot, too. Here, they do mostly go to the local charity hospital (all of my clients have given birth at Sisters of Charity Hospital) and a lot of the doctors who accept Medicaid are not really the greatest.
 

~Jessie~

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I've never been without health insurance. In between graduating college (being dropped off of my mom's plan) and finding a job, I went on private insurance. I paid about 30% extra so that my preexisting conditions would be covered. Now I have group health insurance covered through my job.

If you are on government aid, I believe that you should only get the bare minimum like Miakoda was saying. You shouldn't get a private hospital room, better food, etc, etc. Afterall, the cost of your stay is being covered on MY dime.

If you are working hard to cover your own care (whether it be private or group health insurance) then you should get the private room and the extra luxuries during your hospital stay. After all, you EARNED it by paying for it yourself!

What is the point of even trying to find a job that offers insurance or having to work your butt off to cover your own health insurance if others are getting a better/same plan for free? I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem fair to me.
 

Miakoda

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What is the point of even trying to find a job that offers insurance or having to work your butt off to cover your own health insurance if others are getting a better/same plan for free?
ding ding ding!
 

zoe08

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What is the point of even trying to find a job that offers insurance or having to work your butt off to cover your own health insurance if others are getting a better/same plan for free? I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem fair to me.
I agree it's not fair.

Those of us who make less money have less luxuries in all aspects of life. If you can't pay for your own insurance, or work in a job that provides benefits, then you should get your health care covered yes. But having cable TV in your room does not make your health better.
 

Lilavati

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I agree it's not fair.

Those of us who make less money have less luxuries in all aspects of life. If you can't pay for your own insurance, or work in a job that provides benefits, then you should get your health care covered yes. But having cable TV in your room does not make your health better.
I'll definately agree that you shouldn't get better care (at least in the sense of more luxerious) than those with private insurance . . . I'm not sure, though, to what extent the Feds are actually responsible for that issue. I believe the states have great influence over how that money is spent . . . but these are all issues that will have been taken up by the next President (either one) when Congress starts in on the bill.

But the fact that many people don't have their health care covered, or covered very minimally, has to change . . . it doesn't have to be fancy, but the rates for care, even basic care, are ruinous to those without insurance, and insurance that is decent is ruinous for many. I had "hit by a bus" insurance for a while. It was cheap, and covered nothing, but I could afford it. The purpose was to prevent an illness or accident from bankrupting my family . . . in terms of helping me out with doctor's bills and perscriptions, it was freaking useless.

On the other hand, there will always be people exploiting the system. Those people need to be punished if caught, but some will get away with it. Fear that people can and will exploit shouldn't lead us as a society to prevent honest people from getting help. Your story, Mikoda, is one of the reasons I'm really for health care reform . . . switching jobs shouldn't screw you. That's been fixed to some extent, but its still a real problem.

As for people going to good hospitals because they have to take them . . . yikes, I have no idea how to deal with that . . . except to transfer them after the birth. You really can't turn someone away in labor . . . perhaps charge them the difference?
 

sparks19

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I had Hannah with no insurance. We "shopped" around for hospitals that offered a discounted cash payment plan. I did all my 15 OB appts and gave birth and stayed for three days for less than $10,000

so I pay $100 a month... more if we have extra.

Sure... I didn't get the restaurant menu with crab cakes and everything that they offer at Women's and babies here... I didn't get all the super fancy perks that they offer at women's and babies... but I KNOW I got more personalized care at my smaller, non profit hospital than my friends got at Women's and Babies :) and we paid out of pocket for it. Sure I could have gone home to Ontario and abused the "free" healthcare. But I didn't want to... I knew I would get better care at this hospital.
 

Lilavati

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I had Hannah with no insurance. We "shopped" around for hospitals that offered a discounted cash payment plan. I did all my 15 OB appts and gave birth and stayed for three days for less than $10,000

so I pay $100 a month... more if we have extra.

Sure... I didn't get the restaurant menu with crab cakes and everything that they offer at Women's and babies here... I didn't get all the super fancy perks that they offer at women's and babies... but I KNOW I got more personalized care at my smaller, non profit hospital than my friends got at Women's and Babies :) and we paid out of pocket for it. Sure I could have gone home to Ontario and abused the "free" healthcare. But I didn't want to... I knew I would get better care at this hospital.

That was a good strategy . . . and for a pregancy without serious problems, a great solution. I'm not critizing you here, but what if something had gone very wrong? Wouldn't you prefer to have insurance?
 

~Jessie~

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On the other hand, there will always be people exploiting the system. Those people need to be punished if caught, but some will get away with it. Fear that people can and will exploit shouldn't lead us as a society to prevent honest people from getting help. Your story, Mikoda, is one of the reasons I'm really for health care reform . . . switching jobs shouldn't screw you. That's been fixed to some extent, but its still a real problem.
I'm completely for a health care reform. Individual insurance is just plain ridiculous- high monthly payments with high deductables... and it doesn't cover near what group insurance covers. Not to mention that so many people are excluded from these plans because of preexisting conditions.

Something really needs to be done. I don't believe in "universal healthcare" per say, but I think that insurance agencies need more regulation. It's outrageous that they can charge so much for so little in the way of benefits.
 

Lilavati

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I'm completely for a health care reform. Individual insurance is just plain ridiculous- high monthly payments with high deductables... and it doesn't cover near what group insurance covers. Not to mention that so many people are excluded from these plans because of preexisting conditions.

Something really needs to be done. I don't believe in "universal healthcare" per say, but I think that insurance agencies need more regulation. It's outrageous that they can charge so much for so little in the way of benefits.
Well, to be somewhat fair to them, they are somewhat caught by the high costs. Medical care is absurdly expensive in this country, even basic stuff. Now, they could use their market power more effectively to reign in those costs, but that's still a problem. Its not a one solution answer: its a systemetic problem with lots of causes, and if either party wants to fix this, they will have to go beyond their current plans.
 

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