Need help on deciding between Retrievers

Rose's Gal · Jul 10, 2005

Ok, I'm adding my .02 one last time, and then I'm out of here....(but I'll probably be back because I can't seem to stay away from these threads! lol)

Here is my opinion, and nothing more. I don't mean to offend anybody, but I do want my point to come across clear. (And please forgive my poor spelling. lol) And I'm never going to rest in peace until I make myself clear on this point. (And half of this is going to be a rant, so forgive me ahead of time.)

IMO, most 99.9% of Lab/Poodle mix breeders are irresponsible. Actually, if they are breeding a Lab and a Poodle and not trying to develop a breed, then I atomaticly label them as irresponsible. Just for the heck of it, I typed in Labradoodle breeders in on google and a couple (a thousand) pages popped up. I clicked on a link that had a breeder directery. I was just browsing through the ads of the breeders, and none, I repeat, none, were responsible breeders.
I only saw two or three that actually did OFA tests on there dogs (the others just said "Shots and wormed!" like it was the greatest thing in the world) but they (the OFA breeders) set off some red flags too.
I'm sorry, but I have yet to come across a responsible breeder of these dogs. I have yet to come across a breeder that is trying to make this a breed, not a mix.

I think you were joking, but I'm going to post this anyway, even if it isn't to you. lol
I can almost garentee that dogs from newspaper ads, or whatever are poorly bred. I've yet to come across a reponsible breeder posting in a newspaper. Please look somewhere else for a dog.

Now, about the AKC regestering Lab/Poodle mixes.
The AKC will not recognize a breed until it has so and so many members. And do you know what a requirement of the AKC is? That it be purebred! (It has to have a certian type of pedigree...can't remember what number or whatever it is.)
So Lab/Poodle mixes have as much as a chance as being registered by the AKC as Rose does (my Lab/Rottie/GSD/ACD mix) because no breeder is trying to have them as a set breed! They are just breeding mutts, while thousands die in shelters, giving them a cutsie name, and then charging 2,000$ for them.

I love my Rottie/Lab mix named Blackie. He is everything I've ever wanted in a dog. So why don't I get a Lab and a Rottie, call them a Rottador, breed them, and then charge 2,000$ per pup? Here is why:
Reason #1
Reason #2
Reason #3
Reason #4
Reason #5

And you don't know how many more I've found, in just the state of Indiana. Our local shelter just recentally had a litter of Lab/Rottie pups. I think there were like...10 or 12 or something. That is one more reason. (Or actually...10 or 12 more reasons.) The shelter also had two adult Lab/Rottie mixes. Those were two more reasons.
Do you want some more reasons? How about these purebred dogs that are exactly like my Lab/Rottie mix temperament wise, exercise wise, grooming wise, etc., etc.?
Rottweiler
Chesapeke Bay Retriever
American Staffordshire Terrier
Neopolitan Mastiff
English Mastiff
American Pit Bull Terrier
American Bulldog
Bull Terrier

Tell me...what did you find in a Lab/Poodle mix that you can't find in another shelter mutt or in another purebred dog? Frankly, I can't find a thing.

To preserve a breed. Goldens and Wheatons were bred for a purpose way back when. Now they are being bred to preserve a breed.

Yes, if you go to a rescue. For a shelter...maybe.
Now, here comes my opinion.
Papers - Why does this matter? Frankly, just because a Lab/Poodle mix is registered with the CKC (national puppymill registry) that doesn't prove the quality of the dog. Papers prove squat. Especially when you are buying a mix. So ya, when I start breeding my "Rottadors" I'm going to open up a registry just for them so I can claim that they are "pure bred".

Testing - I'm sorry you can't be willing to take a dog in that has never known love, just because it might have some health problems. I'm sorry that you can't welcome a dog that will become your best friend into your home because it might become sick. I'm going to feel sorry for your dog that you get from a breeder that might develop health problems. Because hey, once it develops health problems, it won't be worth squat.
(Ok, that was a little rude, and I'm not saying that is what you are like, but I'm frusterated and tired and I'm being a little bit sarcastic. Sorry. And I did type something else, but it didn't make sense to me, the writer, so I'm sure it wouldn't have made sense to you, the reader. lol)

Rock solid Background - Yes, some do. Some don't. Some are so little when they are dumped, it doesn't matter. And why does this matter to you? I can understand not wanting to be stuck with a fearful dog or whatever, but that can be determined with a simple temperment test. I know plenty of dogs that were "shelter mutts" that are perfect, well behaved, healthy dogs, and I've known some "pedigreed" dogs that have there "health tests" by "breeders" that are absolute nightmares. Of course, I've known just the oppisite too. A dog doesn't need a rock soild background to have a rock solid temperment. Just go and look at the dogs that were once abused that have turned into the best pets ever.

Ok, anyways, I have to go because I have two lovely, healthy, well behaved, child loving, shelter mutts, that are supposed to be unhealthy and horrilbe, that I have to go walk.
(And, omigosh, we got both of these dogs as puppies...Blackie actually at 6 months old...with unstable backgrounds too!

Oh no! And he just finnished an obedience trial where he got a 180/200 and 10 of those points were lost because he laid down during the sit/stay! Oh no!)

Oh, one more thing.

I can tolorate the Lab/Poodle mixes. They didn't ask to be bred by irrisponsible people. I can also kinda tolorate somebody buying one out of ignorance. They just simply didn't know. But what I can't tolorate is somebody buying one when they know full well what they are doing. That irks me.

Ok, I'm done now...As said earlier, sorry if that came off bad. I just had to get all of that off of my chest. Now for the one major question I've been wanting to ask, that I asked earlier but you have probably forgoten by now, because this post is so long. lol

Why do you want a Labradoodle? Why won't another breed or mutt that is in a shelter fill your wishes?

gaddylovesdogs · Jul 10, 2005

Excellent post, Andrea!!! You said everything that needed to be said, and very nicely.

poeluvr · Jul 10, 2005

Rose's Gal said:

stirder · Jul 10, 2005

excellent post roses gal. you hit the nail on the head. I want to ask one question rather than go back and read 15 pages of posts on this, you said "I think you were joking, but I'm going to post this anyway, even if it isn't to you. lol I can almost garentee that dogs from newspaper ads....." the reason I am asking about that is because I mentioned (and I think someone else did too) the same thing, to avoid newspaper ads when looking for a breeder. its not important just wandering if you were referencing my post?, maybe I wasnt clear on what I meant when I mentioned paper ads.
also, the reason you cant find any "responsible" breeders of labradoodles is because there are none. originally the "breed" started in australia to create a hypoallergenic lab. it failed and those responsible breeders who did all sorts of tests, used dogs with conformation AND working titles, and did ofa etc quit breeding them. some americans heard about it and started breeding them before the original breeders realized it failed. they are now doing it purely for profit.
I was sitting at the vets office the other day waiting to talk to my vet after she gave my ifes cat a lime/sulfer dip. I was reading a magazine called something like "american vet. association" or something similar. there was an article written by a spokesman for OFA, talking about designer dogs. this person said that OFA has certified exactly 10 labradoodles. and that they can only promise that almost any breeder you talk to who claims ofa certified is lying. this mornign I found 3 ads for labradoodle breeders in the newspaper, called all 3 of them. guess how many could tell me what OFA was??? not one. one told me that it was a very advanced trial of obedience, flyball, and agility= O.F.A. I played along for a little while as he fumbled to explain in more detail. then finally asked "doesnt it stand for orthopedic foundation for animals?" and he said "oh no, Ive never head of that, why would animals need orthodontists?"
the point is...there are thousands of true breeds out there. one of them is going to be everything a labradoodle will be. please dont pad these irresponsible back yard breeders pockets and encourage them to breed even more of them.

poeluvr · Jul 10, 2005

stirder said:

excellent post roses gal. you hit the nail on the head. I want to ask one question rather than go back and read 15 pages of posts on this, you said "I think you were joking, but I'm going to post this anyway, even if it isn't to you. lol I can almost garentee that dogs from newspaper ads....." the reason I am asking about that is because I mentioned (and I think someone else did too) the same thing, to avoid newspaper ads when looking for a breeder. its not important just wandering if you were referencing my post?, maybe I wasnt clear on what I meant when I mentioned paper ads.
also, the reason you cant find any "responsible" breeders of labradoodles is because there are none. originally the "breed" started in australia to create a hypoallergenic lab. it failed and those responsible breeders who did all sorts of tests, used dogs with conformation AND working titles, and did ofa etc quit breeding them. some americans heard about it and started breeding them before the original breeders realized it failed. they are now doing it purely for profit.
I was sitting at the vets office the other day waiting to talk to my vet after she gave my ifes cat a lime/sulfer dip. I was reading a magazine called something like "american vet. association" or something similar. there was an article written by a spokesman for OFA, talking about designer dogs. this person said that OFA has certified exactly 10 labradoodles. and that they can only promise that almost any breeder you talk to who claims ofa certified is lying. this mornign I found 3 ads for labradoodle breeders in the newspaper, called all 3 of them. guess how many could tell me what OFA was??? not one. one told me that it was a very advanced trial of obedience, flyball, and agility= O.F.A. I played along for a little while as he fumbled to explain in more detail. then finally asked "doesnt it stand for orthopedic foundation for animals?" and he said "oh no, Ive never head of that, why would animals need orthodontists?"
the point is...there are thousands of true breeds out there. one of them is going to be everything a labradoodle will be. please dont pad these irresponsible back yard breeders pockets and encourage them to breed even more of them.

lol...orthodontists..he didnt even know.lol

gaddylovesdogs · Jul 10, 2005

this mornign I found 3 ads for labradoodle breeders in the newspaper, called all 3 of them. guess how many could tell me what OFA was??? not one. one told me that it was a very advanced trial of obedience, flyball, and agility= O.F.A. I played along for a little while as he fumbled to explain in more detail. then finally asked "doesnt it stand for orthopedic foundation for animals?" and he said "oh no, Ive never head of that, why would animals need orthodontists?"

LMBO that's hilarious. Shows you how responsible they are.

Jason · Jul 10, 2005

Rose's Gal said:

I stopped reading right here. You lose all credibility when you make a ridiculous statement, even if some of your other points are correct.

stirder · Jul 10, 2005

well, beleive it or not the statement is true because there is no RESPONSIBLE reason to breed them, plain and simple.

Rose's Gal · Jul 10, 2005

Jason said:

Well, I'm sorry that if I make one mistake, all of my other advice gets thrown out the window. Excuse me. Just because a person can't advise on one thing, doesn't mean that they can't advise on another. That is bad logic.
And notice I didn't say 100%. The reason I said 99.9% is because out of all of the breeders of Lab/Poodle mixes I've seen, I have yet to see a responsible one. (And I've seen a LOT of breeders.)
(And notice, I said In My Opinion. Nothing more. That doesn't mean it is true, that means it is MY OPINION.)

Strider - Oh, I knew what you said, and you said it quite well. I was just addding that in for good measure. lol

ROFLMHO!!! That is rediculous!!! I don't know whether to laugh at this dudes stupidity, or to be so ticked that somebody like this is breeding! Well...at least he knew what obedience, flyball, and agility was!!

Jason · Jul 10, 2005

stirder said:

That's not true. It is easily possible that some, regardless of the actual percentage (but greater than the 0.1% Rose listed), are interested in bettering the breed and getting it recognized. To say without question none are interested in that is crazy.

gaddylovesdogs · Jul 10, 2005

Jason, unfortunately there are very few responsible doodle and poo breeders - one that do all necessary health and behavioral tests and want to have their mix accepted as an actual breed. There are very, very few.

Jason · Jul 10, 2005

Tell ya what Rose. Research the following breeders thoroughly and give me your honest opinion as to whether they are responsible or not. I'll listen to your EDUCATED opinion:
http://www.laa.org.au/breeders_Australia.htm
http://www.laa.org.au/breeders_US.htm
Thanks.
EDIT: One more: http://www.rutlandmanor.com/Site/Home.aspx

Rose's Gal · Jul 10, 2005

Jason said:

Ok, will do. I will be frankly honest, even if I don't want to be. lol
Checking them out now....

Jason · Jul 10, 2005

Rose's Gal said:

Thanks. I trust you'll keep an open mind. I'd like to know what you see that you like and what you see that you don't like. Tegan Park is supposed to be the best but you be the judge.

stirder · Jul 10, 2005

first one still claims to be breeding to create a allergy friendly dog, hasnt worked yet, and has been proven not too work.
clubdoodles has a 1 year old brood ***** and a 1 year old male poodle, a 1 year old chocolate labradoodle, and only say ofa cert or ofa prelim. they dont say what the scores were, and a 1 year old absolutely should not be bred
washington labradoodles doesnt list anything about ofa or other tests
california labradoodles...same problems as washington
same with snug harbor
same with whispering winds
same with aladdin

so my gut instinct is "irresponsible" and they all claim allergy friendly or hypoallergenic. that is not true. its possible they have done all the other tests, but would have to contact them to find out. I would want to see the ofa certificates etc.

stirder · Jul 10, 2005

even tegan park doesnt list any tests they have done to judge breeding quality.

Fran27 · Jul 10, 2005

I don't even know why you guys keep trying to convince him. Your posts were excellent, but he doesn't give a **** obviously.

stirder · Jul 10, 2005

like I said a while ago, he may not learn but maybe others will read this thread and learn from it.

Rose's Gal · Jul 10, 2005

The first breeder of the first link...I have no clue. They didn't give me a good impression, how about that? lol They didn't say anything about health testing or anything like that and they didn't mention anything about a contract, etc. I would like to see who the studs were for the litter, where they keep the dogs, etc., etc.

I also looked at this breeder (www.wodoodles.com)....not promising, IMO. They didn't say anything about health testing. Just that the pups recieve age apporpriate vet care, and that if the dogs aren't to be used for breeding, they are to be spayed.

I'm now looking at this website: www.rutlandmanor.com
I don't know yet....I guess it depends on a matter of opinion on this one. I think they have too many dogs. But then, I believe that a Responsible breeder should only breed when their show line needs to be improved and I also belive that they shouldn't have so many dogs that they need a "staff" and that the dogs have to live outside, however well furnished. But that is just MO. I wouldn't buy from them (even if it was like, Rotties or something), but they are deffinitally one of the better Breeders I've seen.
And it also doesn't thrill me that they ship their pups without meeting the people they are shipping too first...but then, that is me.
I also see nothing about how they screen homes, etc. But as I said earlier, deffinitally a better breeder.

www.labradoodle.com I don't think so...I see nothing about health testing, etc. Their website doesn't inspire confidence. Same with this other site I was looking at, that I thought I posted but I didn't, and I just closed the page. lol (Stupid me.)

Jason · Jul 10, 2005

Rose's Gal said:

From the FAQ on their site:
As with an earlier answer, the dogs of doubtful parentage have been documented to have severe HD and clinical signs of PRA. Any genuine reputable breeder will have their parent stock hip scored and will only breed with dogs below 20, with a clear PRA Test, and with clear parentage of at least 3 generations on both sides of the pedigree. Believe me it is incredibly hard to find Labradors anywhere in the world that meets these guidelines, but it is worth the search. Poodles also need to test clear of PRA , VW Skin disorders and HD for at least 3 generations. Hip scores need to be well below breed average to help balance the Labrador HD problems. Tegan Park has never had a positive PRA, VW or Skin test, we are very proud to say our dogs are genetically sound and healthy.
I remember seeing more about testing but I can't find it right now. Their site is huge.

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