Iran

[Mindy Miller]

Yes you are right we have the smarts and the means....but we don't say we want to wipe countries of the face of the planet...And our governement is NOT a tyranical dictatorship....and honestly do you think the US would ever nuke a civilian city? No way...

That's kinda funny cause we've already done it. Twice.

As far as the oil thing goes, yeah. Our government has a ton of responsibility for finding other options. I forget what the statistic is, exactly, but the US uses 25% of the oil consumed in the whole world. The US citizens (myself included) are power greedy.

As for the OP, I have a great deal of fear when it comes to Iran. I don't think nuclear power of any kind should be accepted for any country, the US included. I've also thought for a long time that we went after the wrong country when the Iraq thing started. Afghanistan, Iran, China, HELP THE PEOPLE IN DARFUR FOR GOD'S SAKE! But Iraq, c'mon. We had bigger problems.

 

[BullyLover]

That's kinda funny cause we've already done it. Twice.

Did you read the whole thread before you posted? Becasue we already hit on that....again...looking forward ain't gonna happen.....

 

[Gustav]

As far as the oil thing goes, yeah. Our government has a ton of responsibility for finding other options. I forget what the statistic is, exactly, but the US uses 25% of the oil consumed in the whole world.

It is a startling ratio like that!!! We have a system here where the government pays you to install sustainable electricity and heating systems!! We have all got to do our bit! No oil, no electricity (apart from Nuclear) No cars!

 

[BullyLover]

I want one of those cars that runs on peanut oil.....

 

[Gustav]

I want one of those cars that runs on peanut oil.....

I just want the Peanuts!! Hmmmmm Peanuts!!

 

[motherofmany]

Bully, you're going to have to learn to accept that criticism of the government is our patriotic DUTY, not anti-american. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism

 

[Mindy Miller]

Did you read the whole thread before you posted? Becasue we already hit on that....again...looking forward ain't gonna happen.....

My computer locked up and the post went in after lots of those other posts came in. Sorry.

 

[BullyLover]

Bully, you're going to have to learn to accept that criticism of the government is our patriotic DUTY, not anti-american. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism

I don't know what you mean...I said I was happy you clarified.

....and NO I do not "have to learn to accept that". Your feeling of "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" is your opinion....not mine and in no way do I have to accept that. TYVM.

 

[BullyLover]

My computer locked up and the post went in after lots of those other posts came in. Sorry.

No apology needed! I just thought you skipped through like I do sometimes!

 

[casablanca1]

Iran apparently has the capacity to create nuclear things now. In response, President Bush has stated that "we do not want the Iranians to have a nuclear weapon, the capacity to make a nuclear weapon, or the knowledge as to how to make a nuclear weapon." In your opinions, do you think we have the right to make that kind of a statement?

Well, yes. The issue of Iran's behavior is beside the point. The question is whether we have the right to make such a demand, taking into account our needs and desires regarding Iranian power and politics. There are two justifications for one person (in this case, one nation) to demand control over another person or nation - a moral one (you committed murder, your life will be spent in prison) and a practical one (you have something we need and we have the ability to take it). The first is practiced constantly, as people debate justice, good, evil, etc. The second is less debated but it's vital to complete the first. A judicial system without a police force is mostly useless. A moral position without the power to back it up is mostly useless.

We have the practical right to speak forcefully against Iranian nuclear weapons - we can back up our position with force. I won't argue that this is a good idea, but it remains possible for the US to successfully invade and occupy Iran. Of course, the arguments can continue forever whether the US has the moral right to do anything. I regard this as a pointless argument, personally, a gratifying but self-indulgent way to avoid real and important issues.

 

[motherofmany]

Bully, FYI, that quote isn't mine.... it is someone very important in our nation's history who said that.

"My country right or wrong" and "my country love it or leave it" are sentiments of nationalism, not patriotism. Nationalism spawns facism.

 

[BullyLover]

Bully, FYI, that quote isn't mine.... it is someone very important in our nation's history who said that.

"My country right or wrong" and "my country love it or leave it" are sentiments of nationalism, not patriotism. Nationalism spawns facism.

Yea...I know who's quote that is....and I disagree....so I am a facist now....

 

[motherofmany]

Wow was that a leap! How did you jump to that conclusion?

 

[BullyLover]

Is that not what you implied?

BTW...some people say Jefferson didn't say that....

 

[Mindy Miller]

As for the OP, I have a great deal of fear when it comes to Iran. I don't think nuclear power of any kind should be accepted for any country, the US included.

When I said nuclear power, I meant nuclear weapons.

 

[BullyLover]

When I said nuclear power, I meant nuclear weapons.

Yea I agree...there really is no need for them.

 

[motherofmany]

No honey, what I was suggesting is that you look a little harder at what your version of patriotism is because in my experience most people misunderstand what dissent is and it's purpose and believe that "if you're not with us you're against us" which is 100% wrong and leads to all sorts of problems. A passive, uncritical, unquestioning, assenting citizenry is ripe for exploitation. My hope for thsi country is that the people in it are always skeptical and LOUD so that our leaders are not allowed to forget that the power of our nation lays in it's populace, not it's branches of government. This way we can hopefully avoid the "bloody revolution" that some of our forefathers believed was necessary every once in a while to keep the government "honest."

Yes, some believe the quote originated with Howard Zinn (who is well worth reading and I hope you have or will) but many compilations of TJ's writings and speeches list it as being from him, although slightly paraphrased (for brevity) and since it is in order with most of his expressed sentiments about government and the people, most believe it is rightly attributed to him.

 

[BullyLover]

No honey, what I was suggesting is that you look a little harder at what your version of patriotism is because in my experience most people misunderstand what dissent is and it's purpose and believe that "if you're not with us you're against us" which is 100% wrong and leads to all sorts of problems. A passive, uncritical, unquestioning, assenting citizenry is ripe for exploitation. My hope for thsi country is that the people in it are always skeptical and LOUD so that our leaders are not allowed to forget that the power of our nation lays in it's populace, not it's branches of government. This way we can hopefully avoid the "bloody revolution" that some of our forefathers believed was necessary every once in a while to keep the government "honest."

Yes, some believe the quote originated with Howard Zinn (who is well worth reading and I hope you have or will) but many compilations of TJ's writings and speeches list it as being from him, although slightly paraphrased (for brevity) and since it is in order with most of his expressed sentiments about government and the people, most believe it is rightly attributed to him.

Hey I agree with you that "A passive, uncritical, unquestioning, assenting citizenry is ripe for exploitation." ...but at the same time I feel that an overly critical, always questioning, dissenting citizenry is dangerous.....I don't blindly follow our leaders...I disagree with many things that have happened recently...I am not ready to sell them down the river, and I don't harbor all the hate for our President that many people do now a days. Did he make mistakes? Yea...what President hasn't? Does he deserve all of the heat he has gotten? No I don't believe he does..

 

[motherofmany]

See? We found common ground besides thinking that you have the cutest little bully pup ever

 

[BullyLover]

Oh...you know all the right things to say don't you....Love Ya!