Playing devil's advocate here (i dont eat organic, dont eat any special local farm raised meat, I just eat tyson chicken breasts, lol) but its mostly about the culture you were raised in. I dont see the big difference in animals meant for food vs. animals meant for pets. So animals meant for food deserve less respect and compassion b/c we (people) just decided they were meant for food before they were born?
I would eat any kind of meat. I dont understand why its wrong to kill certain animals and not others (not really referring to chickens here.) Why would you eat a cow but not a horse? Unless the horse was MY pet I would eat him (if he tasted good
of course)
Not saying the idea of a dirty, crowded slaughter house full of dogs wouldnt bother me more than one full of chickens. Of course it would. Dogs show emotion, dogs love, etc. Chickens.....not so much. I have never seen a crate full of sad looking chickens, lol but if someone snuck up on a dog and shot it in the head for food I think I could eat it.
I dont have much emotion for chickens. I sort of view them like bugs. I dont feel bad squashing a bug but when it comes to bigger animals like cows and pigs i dont really see what makes them "food" and similar animals "pets".
I would eat any kind of meat. I dont understand why its wrong to kill certain animals and not others (not really referring to chickens here.) Why would you eat a cow but not a horse? Unless the horse was MY pet I would eat him (if he tasted good
of course)Not saying the idea of a dirty, crowded slaughter house full of dogs wouldnt bother me more than one full of chickens. Of course it would. Dogs show emotion, dogs love, etc. Chickens.....not so much. I have never seen a crate full of sad looking chickens, lol but if someone snuck up on a dog and shot it in the head for food I think I could eat it.
I dont have much emotion for chickens. I sort of view them like bugs. I dont feel bad squashing a bug but when it comes to bigger animals like cows and pigs i dont really see what makes them "food" and similar animals "pets".
personally i DO keep a mental differnce between "pet" and "food" animals...
if i didnt wouldnt be able to do the slaughter nor would i be able to eat "porky"...
however even with that difference in mental designations, i do thing theres no reason an animal should be "abused" even if it is just for meat...
i belive they should be given healthy food, some space, and given a good life till the point of slaughter...
i also think slaughter should be quick and painless...
BUT right now the budget doesnt allow for me to go and buy meat straight from the farm ect...and because of that i try not to think too much about the life or sliughter of my meats...
i do know that usda regulates slaughter, ive NEVER heard of chickens heads being "sawed" off, ive seen a chicken process, they either snap the neck or a single slice with a blade under the beak and left to drain. its quick.
with cattle its usually a strong bolt of electricity to the back of the head, its QUICK and while not nessicarily painless, quicker than a throat slit (larger animal)
ect.
i dont like how these animals are raised in factory farming...
and i think changes need to be made in how some of these animals are kept...
but at the same time, right now "fighting the factory farmers" is not in my budget...
if i didnt wouldnt be able to do the slaughter nor would i be able to eat "porky"...
however even with that difference in mental designations, i do thing theres no reason an animal should be "abused" even if it is just for meat...
i belive they should be given healthy food, some space, and given a good life till the point of slaughter...
i also think slaughter should be quick and painless...
BUT right now the budget doesnt allow for me to go and buy meat straight from the farm ect...and because of that i try not to think too much about the life or sliughter of my meats...
i do know that usda regulates slaughter, ive NEVER heard of chickens heads being "sawed" off, ive seen a chicken process, they either snap the neck or a single slice with a blade under the beak and left to drain. its quick.
with cattle its usually a strong bolt of electricity to the back of the head, its QUICK and while not nessicarily painless, quicker than a throat slit (larger animal)
ect.
i dont like how these animals are raised in factory farming...
and i think changes need to be made in how some of these animals are kept...
but at the same time, right now "fighting the factory farmers" is not in my budget...
Makes me think of Sal the rat. HE came in to be food for the animals at the zoo. Just like all that were in the crates. The only difference is he escaped, ran across the table where i was cutting up food. I slipped him inside my shirt. I mean come on, he made a break for it, you had to respect that, and he ran right to me. He stayed there until i got in the car..he ran about the car and came back up to me. THis is absolutely a true story. HE went on the road with us and was not in a cage. He even went to the rainbow gathering. HE was one of the most amazing animals i ever met. SIghs. He was no different than the other rats. IMHO telling ourselves that one is food and one is pet just makes us feel better. The animal is an animal, with all the same feelings desires and needs no matter what flip of the quarter he gets. I eat meat. I hate that I eat meat. All i can say is I am sorry and that doesn't do a dang bit of good either.
IF we can make diamonds we ought to be able to make a food supplement that filled the bill in a way that nothing suffers...like that is ever going to happen. I would do it. Happily. NO more veggies, no more fruit..yay..and a clean conscience.
IF we can make diamonds we ought to be able to make a food supplement that filled the bill in a way that nothing suffers...like that is ever going to happen. I would do it. Happily. NO more veggies, no more fruit..yay..and a clean conscience.
OK... it's not so much about not feeling anything for animals who arent' free range and grass fed and everything else for me anyway. for the farmers... it's about PROFIT. they ARE a business you know
and when you see the price between "factory farmed meat" and " grass fed free range meat" well... it's kind of obvious. Farmers don't run their farms on good feelings and what not... they run on profits. it's not CHEAP to run a farm.
So while it's horrible that animals are in less than stellar conditions... it is a nessecary evil. we can't demand that they stop running because we can't all afford NOR is there enough land for free range grass fed animals to be the only source. it takes A LOT more land for this which farmers are losing EVERYDAY. their land is being taken for more and more housing and communities and business buildings and what not. I know even in lancaster county where the MAJOR part of the population is farming... they are losing LAND all the time.
and I do NOT expect the entire population to become vegetarian.. that is just silly. I know I couldn't do it and I CERTAINLY wouldn't put my child on an all veggie diet. but we can't cut out all mass farming and expect to get meat that anyone can afford. if we were to really take a stand and cut out ALL mass produced meat... we would end up with even MORE inflated prices to make up for what they are losing with a fraction of the meat producing animals.
so perhaps it's horrible for me to sit here and think about the money aspect but well... it's reality. we would lose A LOT of farms and without farms we don't get the food... NOT to mention the population in this country. you cut out at least HALF of the producers... how do we feed everyone?
and when you see the price between "factory farmed meat" and " grass fed free range meat" well... it's kind of obvious. Farmers don't run their farms on good feelings and what not... they run on profits. it's not CHEAP to run a farm.
So while it's horrible that animals are in less than stellar conditions... it is a nessecary evil. we can't demand that they stop running because we can't all afford NOR is there enough land for free range grass fed animals to be the only source. it takes A LOT more land for this which farmers are losing EVERYDAY. their land is being taken for more and more housing and communities and business buildings and what not. I know even in lancaster county where the MAJOR part of the population is farming... they are losing LAND all the time.
and I do NOT expect the entire population to become vegetarian.. that is just silly. I know I couldn't do it and I CERTAINLY wouldn't put my child on an all veggie diet. but we can't cut out all mass farming and expect to get meat that anyone can afford. if we were to really take a stand and cut out ALL mass produced meat... we would end up with even MORE inflated prices to make up for what they are losing with a fraction of the meat producing animals.
so perhaps it's horrible for me to sit here and think about the money aspect but well... it's reality. we would lose A LOT of farms and without farms we don't get the food... NOT to mention the population in this country. you cut out at least HALF of the producers... how do we feed everyone?
That's exactly it IMO. If I were raised in a place/culture that ate rats, I would think nothing of having rats for dinner...........same with dogs, cats, or any other animal. It's not what we do HERE (in the US) and so it's just not something any of us are accustomed to.
You (general you) can't say there is no difference in your mind about cows and dogs and then enjoy that juicy beef steak, LOL........THERE IS a difference in your mind or else you wouldn't mind eating a dog steak too........see what I mean? The mere thought of having a cat stew or dog steak probably earned a *gasp* from some......that's because we think of them DIFFERENTLY. Period. Most definitely culture.
None of that is to say you (again, general you) think it's OK or RIGHT for farm animals to be treated poorly or inhumanely during their short life.........or killed in an inhumane way at the end. I stated earlier in the thread that I DON'T think they should treated poorly in any way. The fact still remains that farm animals are RAISED to eat, not get emotionally attached to and that makes them different from the start in our hearts and heads.
You (general you) can't say there is no difference in your mind about cows and dogs and then enjoy that juicy beef steak, LOL........THERE IS a difference in your mind or else you wouldn't mind eating a dog steak too........see what I mean? The mere thought of having a cat stew or dog steak probably earned a *gasp* from some......that's because we think of them DIFFERENTLY. Period. Most definitely culture.
None of that is to say you (again, general you) think it's OK or RIGHT for farm animals to be treated poorly or inhumanely during their short life.........or killed in an inhumane way at the end. I stated earlier in the thread that I DON'T think they should treated poorly in any way. The fact still remains that farm animals are RAISED to eat, not get emotionally attached to and that makes them different from the start in our hearts and heads.
I think if they closed the grocery stores down we would all look at food from a much less humane perspective.
I am sorry, I can't see a difference. IF i had to kill the cow myself I would cry while i did it, but if I had a family that was protein starved I woudlnt' think twice. PRobably feel sick. What was it I read about the pig in a book once..we all felt bad, but the meat went so far. Something about there was no joy the day the hog was killed because they all felt an affection for him. IF i had to raise my own, I would probably be looking at goats.
I am sorry, I can't see a difference. IF i had to kill the cow myself I would cry while i did it, but if I had a family that was protein starved I woudlnt' think twice. PRobably feel sick. What was it I read about the pig in a book once..we all felt bad, but the meat went so far. Something about there was no joy the day the hog was killed because they all felt an affection for him. IF i had to raise my own, I would probably be looking at goats.
yeah, i totally get what you are saying. I also agre w/ you and sparks that the way some animals live and die is less than ideal but necessary. I was just saying that I find it odd that we have this distinction between such similar animals. I mean, we DO and its DOES make us feel better but I just find it odd/interesting.
However I do think I could eat a dog/cat/horse. I am not going on a dog/cat/horse diet anytime soon but I would just not think about the living animal while eating the meat. (I dont picture cute baby cows suckling their mother's teat while eating veal. Ya know, same idea. lol)
However I do think I could eat a dog/cat/horse. I am not going on a dog/cat/horse diet anytime soon but I would just not think about the living animal while eating the meat. (I dont picture cute baby cows suckling their mother's teat while eating veal. Ya know, same idea. lol)
But you DO see a difference smkie, you just won't ADMIT that difference. If your family needed protein as you say, and you had a goat weighing the same as a stray dog wandering by.....which would you kill/cook for your family?
I'm going out on a limb here and say you'd pick the goat.
Why? You could eat the dog and save the goat to provide milk another few days for the family.
You'd pick the goat due to our way of thinking about live stock vs pets and that's the truth plain and simple. Deny it all day long, but it's the plain truth and I would do the same. That doesn't mean the goat has less feelings, or is less important..........it just means we are raised to see live stock DIFFERENTLY than pets pure and simple, right or wrong.
I'm going out on a limb here and say you'd pick the goat.
Why? You could eat the dog and save the goat to provide milk another few days for the family.
You'd pick the goat due to our way of thinking about live stock vs pets and that's the truth plain and simple. Deny it all day long, but it's the plain truth and I would do the same. That doesn't mean the goat has less feelings, or is less important..........it just means we are raised to see live stock DIFFERENTLY than pets pure and simple, right or wrong.
Though I think if you had a goat it would be as hard as eating a dog. (goats rock lol) Except carnivores are supposed to taste nasty.
I am not sure if I could eat horse. But I don't see anything wrong with it. I have worked on dairy farms and I can tell you cows is good creatures. (tasty but also very personable)
I am not sure if I could eat horse. But I don't see anything wrong with it. I have worked on dairy farms and I can tell you cows is good creatures. (tasty but also very personable)
Coop, I see what you're saying about making a difference about animals in your mind - but an animal is still an animal. I make a difference between my dog and a cow, but a cow is still a cow. Why should my pet cow be treated differently than my food cow? Who decides which cow is worth less than the other. Just because we are going to slaughter the food cow at an early stage in it's life, doesn't mean it needs to lead a horrible life in feed slaught, eating the safe crappy food day in and day out just like the 1000 other cows its stuck into a factory with. The cow doesn't see a difference between the free range cow and itself. No matter what its raised for, as a pet, a milk cow or a food cow, its still the same animal.
I am sorry but No I dont. Dog, goat, cat, pig, horse, bird, it's all the same to me. A creature that thinks, and feels, and has emotion. I would raise goats because they would also take down weeds and give milk which a dog would not. THat is why I said what I did. I do not see the life of a bird any different than the life of an elephant. THat is one thing I am for sure of. I just don't put up a bunch of words to help me cope with my guilt. I feel guilty for all of it from my medicine to my good leather coat. I am human and I am a consumer. I pollute my planet and I eat meat. I am not proud of it.
I won't tell Daddy Wren that you said that. He would gladly let the bugs eat up your garden and the mosquitoes eat your hide for saying that noisy parrot that does nothing to help you out is more important. IMHO they are all equally as important as I am and if I didn't think so highly of myself as to pollute the world and value what I like, over what I don't, the whole show would be a lot better off. THe kindest thing I could do for the whole world is to march myself to the sea. BUt that isnt' going to happen because I am a selfish human that tries to be as humane as possible while i merrily wolf down hamburgers and drive my car and drink out of plastic, then take my antbiotics so I can live even longer. THat's how I see it. Funny..I value the wren over me! He does no damage, greets the world with joy and provides a helpful service.
You haven't known the birds I have known. A good book WHen Elephants Weep.
Take away my grocery store, my conveniences, and my compassion would be equal to that of any other hungry mammal. WHat is it..you have to have shelter and food before you can feel love?
Yeah I love spiders too and moths and ants and all of it. I will kill ants and cockroaches and fight the mice because I have to to protect my food and posessions.. NOt because i feel I am more deserving then they are, but because i don't want them in my home. I am just being honest. I can so I do. I am sure if they could they would too but I am bigger so I have the advantage.
Take away my grocery store, my conveniences, and my compassion would be equal to that of any other hungry mammal. WHat is it..you have to have shelter and food before you can feel love?
Yeah I love spiders too and moths and ants and all of it. I will kill ants and cockroaches and fight the mice because I have to to protect my food and posessions.. NOt because i feel I am more deserving then they are, but because i don't want them in my home. I am just being honest. I can so I do. I am sure if they could they would too but I am bigger so I have the advantage.
There are species of songbirds that mate for life, as well as swans, Canada geese, and some ducks (I think).
Nanny had a cardinal who came looking for her every day, rode on her shoulder and even came in the house with her. My catbird would sit on the tree outside my window and call until I came down and sat on the front stoop, then he'd fly down and sit next to me and chirrup.
Nanny had a cardinal who came looking for her every day, rode on her shoulder and even came in the house with her. My catbird would sit on the tree outside my window and call until I came down and sat on the front stoop, then he'd fly down and sit next to me and chirrup.