Food.inc

[Puckstop31]

I'm done. This is why I hate "debates". They aren't debates, they just turn into hurtful bullying and attacking. I hope you know that even though you might have a different opinion than me, I'd never treat you like this. That was very hurtful, and it was INTENDED to be hurtful. That is the worst part..

The truth has nothing to hide Tessa. Until you can deal with the TRUTH, you will always be a victim and a welfare recipient.

In other words... A SLAVE.


Are you really OK with that? Would you really be OK with your son being dependant (a slave?) his whole life? Thats what you are setting him up to be. Like it or not.

 

[Dekka]

Can you explain what you mean by slave. In most cases in history it was the ruling classes that became dependent on slaves. And the slaves did all the work and the 'masters' sat back and reaped the benefit. In this case I see Tessa more as a 'master' expecting the working plebs to hand over their portion to their 'lord and lady' as a matter of entitlement.

 

[makenzie71]

well I had a bunch of stuff typed out and hit the wrong button and lost it all but... personally... I am SICK of it tessa.

you sit here and complain day in and day out about how horrible everything in your life is. no mention of how BLESSED you are to be healthy, have a beautiful healthy child and a wonderful marriage and not to mention the people who were wonderful enough to take you in and help you out.

You think the world OWES you something. You could work but you choose not to because you think it is your right to be a stay at home mom and collect tax payer money and then COMPLAIN that it's not ENOUGH for you. being a stay at home mom is a privilege

Then you go on and talk about how daycare is a horrible thing and how they don't care for childrens needs and are totally unsanitary, how c sections are horrible and mean you shouldn't have more children, how feeding formula means a certain doom for children and basically any mom who does any of these things is a selfish person and YES you did say these things and everyone has seen it and MANY have had the same reaction I am having. So the whole "I would never be hurtful" is BS tessa. you have been INSANELY hurtful to anyone who doesn't feel the way you do but you disguise it as "my opinion". you are judgemental and more judgemental than anyone I know.

You need to stop thinking about your WANTS and starting realizing your NEEDS. but you won't even try. it's all about how you CAN'T do this or that when you really CAN you just choose not to. like you CAN work but you won't because you think you MUST stay home with mason and while being home with your child is admirable... it's NOT when you are sacrificing any kind of financial security to do it.

if I'm being hurtful well.. perhaps it's tough love time Tessa. you need to wake up and realize that the world doesn't owe you anything and YOU are the master of your own destiny but when you keep saying "I can't I can't I can't because so and so" it's no wonder. but you chalk it all up to "attacks" and "people being mean" it's the truth tessa. and I am so done with the victim act and so are so many others. Being NICE isn't getting YOU any closer to getting out of the hole you are in.

sometimes you need to make sacrifices in order to PROVIDE for your family. I know you WANT to stay home but at this point it's not exactly the responsible choice and others are paying for your choice. staying home is NOT nessecary especially if dustin is home most of the time and you CAN pump at work. but you just keep saying can't can't can't. you CAN you just don't WANT to. you even quit school

and you did say it would be nice if WIC would let you get organic milk... not it would be nice to be able to afford it. you want WIC to approve it so you can get what many working people can't afford on their dime.

I'm sorry tessa but I'm done coddling you. you need to face the harsh realities of life. you have another life depending on you. so you need to put your NEEDS ahead of your wants. and if you don't like debates then stop being so **** confrontational about everything you post. posting like you are on some pedestal and everyone who does what you don't agree with is a monster and that IS how you come across. you think it's just all of us that are horrible? maybe it's the way you talk to people that puts them on the defensive. When the majority reacts to you in a certain way... perhaps you need to stop placing blame on the majority and look at yourself and the way you TALK to people

Spot on.

 

[zoe08]

Tessa, you know that I have tried to be helpful to you and sent you things to help you out with the baby, but I do have to say that sparks took the words out of my mouth.

You sit there and talk about how you are not hurtful, but EVERY single time birth is brought up in a thread you constantly hurt those who have had C-sections.

We all have tried to help you and give you ideas for helping you make money or this or that, and you constantly post excuses. I dunno, I come from a family where you do every **** thing you can before going on gov't assistance. If that means you go to work, come home from work and go straight back to work again that is what you do. Because America didn't impregnate you and make you have a child, so therefore America should not be responsible for raising him the way YOU want. If you want America to foot the bill for your irresponsibility, then you should be thankful that your family is fed, not being picky about having all organic food. And if they give you free daycare so that you can work or go to school, to get your family into a better situation, than you should be thankful for the opportunity to improve your situation. You said over and over how much you want to go to school and have financial security, but now you come up with excuse after excuse on why you should have assistance and stay at home instead.

I know that at some point people have to swallow their pride and ask for help, but I think Americans in general have lost all pride, because they have absolutely no problem, not just asking for free food, but they now want to special order what they get. They think they deserve it, when they only have themselves to blame for the situation they are in.

It may be harsh, but I am sick of the people asking the gov’t for more and more. Maybe they need to take a look at the debt this country is already in. If we were not being forced to feed and pay for healthcare for half the country, you would probably have many more people around you that would be happy and able to help you out. But considering how much of our money is "donated" for us, it leaves little ability to help others with the money we are allowed to bring home.

More than 50% of America receives some kind of gov't assistance. I don't know about anyone else here, but I don’t think that 50% of Americans just happened to run into a bad time because they lost their job or had unexpected medical bills.

 

[makenzie71]

Tessa, you know that I have tried to be helpful to you and sent you things to help you out with the baby, but I do have to say that sparks took the words out of my mouth.

You sit there and talk about how you are not hurtful, but EVERY single time birth is brought up in a thread you constantly hurt those who have had C-sections.

We all have tried to help you and give you ideas for helping you make money or this or that, and you constantly post excuses. I dunno, I come from a family where you do every **** thing you can before going on gov't assistance. If that means you go to work, come home from work and go straight back to work again that is what you do. Because America didn't impregnate you and make you have a child, so therefore America should not be responsible for raising him the way YOU want. If you want America to foot the bill for your irresponsibility, then you should be thankful that your family is fed, not being picky about having all organic food. And if they give you free daycare so that you can work or go to school, to get your family into a better situation, than you should be thankful for the opportunity to improve your situation. You said over and over how much you want to go to school and have financial security, but now you come up with excuse after excuse on why you should have assistance and stay at home instead.

I know that at some point people have to swallow their pride and ask for help, but I think Americans in general have lost all pride, because they have absolutely no problem, not just asking for free food, but they now want to special order what they get. They think they deserve it, when they only have themselves to blame for the situation they are in.

It may be harsh, but I am sick of the people asking the gov’t for more and more. Maybe they need to take a look at the debt this country is already in. If we were not being forced to feed and pay for healthcare for half the country, you would probably have many more people around you that would be happy and able to help you out. But considering how much of our money is "donated" for us, it leaves little ability to help others with the money we are allowed to bring home.

More than 50% of America receives some kind of gov't assistance. I don't know about anyone else here, but I don’t think that 50% of Americans just happened to run into a bad time because they lost their job or had unexpected medical bills.

Spot on...too...

 

[sparks19]

thank you. glad to hear I am not the only one that truly believes the solution to tessas issues are TESSA and DUSTIN. YOU CAN do things b ut you keep telling yourselves you CAN'T when there are peoplke WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse off than yiou that CAN. you are blessed and **** lucky you have had the opportunities you have and I hope you recognize that and realize you need to make sacrifices.

 

[Renee750il]

Bear in mind that neither Sparks, Zoe or Puck would be investing their time if they didn't CARE.

This is going to be a time of harsh, fast growing up for both of you, Tessa. You've got it in you to do it. Take those posts with the love and concern with which they were made.

 

[JennSLK]

This is going to be a time of harsh, fast growing up for both of you, Tessa. You've got it in you to do it. Take those posts with the love and concern with which they were made.

So true. Its amazing how much I have grown up since having Katie

 

[Renee750il]

So true. Its amazing how much I have grown up since having Katie

Yes, Jenn, you really have

 

[Puckstop31]

Can you explain what you mean by slave. In most cases in history it was the ruling classes that became dependent on slaves. And the slaves did all the work and the 'masters' sat back and reaped the benefit. In this case I see Tessa more as a 'master' expecting the working plebs to hand over their portion to their 'lord and lady' as a matter of entitlement.

Side bar?


Was it not apparent? LOL I mean it is a form of slavery to be dependant upon others for your well being. When you are dependant upon others for your well being (in any way), you are not truly free.

As for your references to feudalism... We can have a whole other thread about that.

 

[LauraLeigh]

I have to say I agree with Sparks, I had Jenn at 17, was married the same year and had Jonah at 18. We made the choice for me to stay at home until Jonah was a year, and we struggled and were poor... but if we'd gotten so bad we'd had to have any kind of government assistance, I'd have went to work first... As it was I had to go back when he was around 10 months because a good (not great, but decent) job came along I did not want to miss.

I worked the whole time my kids were young, it sucked and I wish I could have been at home, however there is no way I could have been comfortable staying at home and making others support me in any way shape or form.

I would have taken assistance, if I had ever been that dire that I had no choice, don't get me wrong, but when Jeff and I decided to get married and keep the baby, rather than put her up for adoption, which we did think about. We also decided if we could not do this on our own, then we should consider adoption, so.... we worked, ate many a meal of kraft dinner, and got through it....

 

[mrose_s]

Ahh, annoying I missed the "meat" debate. Its my thing. lol. but I will say this...

Vegetarian for 5 years, was vegan for a year but recently went back to vegetarian. Still LOVE vegan food over anything though, just found people were less willing to listen and faster to make judgments on a vegan plus I missed chocolate.


I fully support sustainable, humane hunting.
I have no respect for factory farming and I feel it violates and contradicts basic animal welfare laws.

I have no understanding for people that can say "I love meat, I will buy it regardless of where it comes from" and then turn around and say "NEVER BUY FROM A PUPPY FARM!"
Its the same thing, some people can't resist the cute puppy in the window, some people can't resist that pork chop.

I'm not a bleeding heart. I DO think we should be eating some meat but I choose not to, I don't enjoy it and I don't miss it. I would take up the offer to see inside I slaughterhouse, I would take up the offer to go on a hunting trip or see inside a battery hen farm. It actually annoys me I havn't seen inside these places first hand because I do try to be objective.

"Factory Farming" is not farming, its running a production line and I don't get it. Farming is respecting and understanding what your producing.


End Rant.

 

[GipsyQueen]

My mom has been buying organic food since I was about 7 or 8; before she always made sure she didn't buy foods that were generally unhealthy and we stuffed with perservatives, we just couldn't aford organic food. I never grew up on Fruit roll-ups, lunchables or stuff like that, even though at 8 I really wanted to - now I'm thankful I didn't. My mom taught me that you have to be aware whats in your food and be aware of where it comes from. Like someone already mentioned, I don't understand people who say puppies mills are bad and should all be shut down (which they should) but don't give a rats tail about where their meat - coming from an animal, that is worth just as much as any other animal, comes from. I just don't understand.
Of course organic fruits and veggies don't have more vitamines or minerals than conventional fruits and veggies - why should they? They are after all "just" fruits and veggies. Difference is, they weren't sprayed with any cancer causing chemicals, that don't just cause harm to the people eating the produce but also to farmers and farmhands. Those same chemicals pretty much kill the natural soil. Did you know that it takes over 5 years after a field is sprayed to recover?
On top of that, if we continually spay chemicals on all our fields, mother nature will not be able to protect herself from things that are harmfull for crops, so we will have to spray more and more.

 

[ACooper]

Like someone already mentioned, I don't understand people who say puppies mills are bad and should all be shut down (which they should) but don't give a rats tail about where their meat - coming from an animal, that is worth just as much as any other animal, comes from. I just don't understand.

Whoever said this earlier, I missed it! I would like to address this from my own personal view.

For me, it's not so much that I 'don't care' it's more that I don't want to see/know just like I don't want to watch them make my lunch meat, hot dogs, anything like that, LOL

And no, I don't look at a chicken (or any 'farm animal' or animal I am going to consume) raised for meat the same as I do a pet. That chicken's sole purpose for being at that farm is to be killed and eaten, you know it from day one and do NOT get an emotional attachment. Pets are here to be companions, purposely gotten for the emotional attachment, way different IMO.

That's not to say I think farm animals should be tortured or treated poorly during their short life, but it is not the same thing in my mind as a puppy mill where dogs are kept in (sometimes) WORSE conditions than farm animals year after year of their life. Not just a single year or season until slaughter time. *shrugs* Just the way I feel about it..........could be because I HAVE helped kill/pluck chickens, feed hogs/cows and then ate them at the end of the year.........I learned early on NOT to view them as pets because they wouldn't be sticking around long, LOL

 

[smkie]

DUe to income I am a bottom feeder and will have to deal with what there is. THat is just the way it is. IF i can get well...you bet. I am moving to a place where my veggie eating. .actually LIKES TO WEED girl can have what she deserves. WHat is sad on top of that is I have both the green thumb and the past experience to be able to show her how to do this well. Until then, you do what you have to do and eat what there is and try to be grateful for it.

FAct is when you have an unplanned child that you did not prepare for this child will have to due with what you can give not what you want to give. I wish Hyia had an acre of her own to grow. SHe would be out there eating fresh peas off of the vine just like her mother and fresh corn would I think make her yippeee. IT hurts to not be able to do even what I did for my own children but that is the breaks. The child won't be alone, a lot of company there.

 

[release the hounds]

I was going to make some comments on meat and grains and produce, but I see the thread has moved away from that a bit

but anyway, we used to raise and butcher our own chickens every year and I can say there is no comparison between commercially raised and our chickens in terms of how they were raised and what we ended up with. I had the unpleasant experience of having to deliver quite frequently to a tyson chicken plant in college and later live next to a commercial turkey farm. My grandparents kept the hogs and beef too, now we have to get it from others.

We still buy commercial sometimes, but are working towards phasing that out completely for many reasons.

anyway, I haven't seen this movie, but I do think people should care and take more notice. Not much has improved in terms of "farming" in the past few decades. Sure we can grow on one acre what used to take entire fields to produce in terms of corn, but also remember that corn went from a high protein, nutritious product, to one of being made almost entirely of starch and provides very little in terms of nutrition today. IA farmers laugh that they have a thousand acres of corn growing out back, but they couldn't feed their own family with it. Change? Yes, more of it? yes, better? I'm not so sure.

With the amount of over fed and undernurished people in this country I'd like to think more people would care where their food comes from and how it impacts their lives, not only short term, but long term.

 

[FoxyWench]

"Of course organic fruits and veggies don't have more vitamines or minerals than conventional fruits and veggies - why should they? They are after all "just" fruits and veggies. Difference is, they weren't sprayed with any cancer causing chemicals, that don't just cause harm to the people eating the produce but also to farmers and farmhands. Those same chemicals pretty much kill the natural soil. Did you know that it takes over 5 years after a field is sprayed to recover? "

Just wanted to adress this part...
i DONT know what its like in germany...
i do know here in the US the "ORGANIC" insecticides they use are just as likely to cause cancer as the other stuff...
the only difference is the "ORGANIC" insecticides are made from natural ingredients, infact 2 of the big ones used in comercial "organic" insecticides are nightshade and arsenic...definatly no better than the chemicals for use or consumption BUT they can be used on fruits and veggies and still et the label "organic".
but that goes along with that "read the lables" just because something has an "ORGANIC" sticker (or "free range" or "Grass fed") doesnt nessicarily mean its any better...

that organic apple could have been sprayed in an arsenic based insecticide, that grass that fed the beef could have been too, and that free range chicken may have gotten to see the light of day but often in only as much space as the battery hen.

unfortunatly the term organic is sooo widly used now (and again this could all be different in other countries because theres different rules and regs) that many have no REAL idea of what it means they just know "well it doesnt have the "chemicals" so must be better" and while this is right in some cases, these fruits and veggies can still have harmfull stuff all over them, organic or not. same with "natural" ect...

thats why LOCAL is always a better sticker to look for, LOCAL GROWN or "HOME GROWN" places you can actually call up and say "hey what fertilizer do you use" and "hey i want to learn where my food comes from, would it be possible to arrange a tour of your farm?"

now also keep in mind that some, due to usda regulations if they are selling to larger scale operations CANNOT legally allow people in certain areas of their farm, this is to limit potential spread of disese, and if a farm says "sorry no" dont just assume its because hes spraying his crops with nuclear waste every night, ask why and be respectfull

i actually find "food" to be interesting, ive seen battery houses (YICKY) but after seeing the free range hens i realized a little sunlight every day is NOT making any real difference when you take into account how over crowded...so whenever possible i buy my chicekn on sale at stew leonards becuase i like the way they raise chicken...when i cant afford it/not on sale it comes from costco, i knwo there battery hens (there certified organic though ) but its what i can afford and is a healthy source of protein...
untill i can grow my own, i do what i can with what ive got...

add me to that "bottom feeders" pile...i have a set budget for the month so i do what i can to push that budget as far as possible to include the most healthy choices...however when your budgets as low as some...you get over it, plan as best as possible and say "hey theres nothing wrong with soup for dinner!" or "how can i make this chicken breast feed me for more than 1 day ect"

im sorry but i agree with others...
the way it was put was very much sounding was not an "i would like if i could afford" theres lots of things i would like if i could afford, doesnt mean im entitled to them...
if im living off someone elses money you can be damned sure that every penny will be used as wisely as possible with a thankfull heart and an attitude to match...
its a HAND OUT...plain and simply...for whatever reason.

i feel horrible for those that have WORKED their entire life to only find themselves needing help and recive sooooo little, often not enough to live healthily on...when babies can have babies and get the same if not more help, while CHOOSING not to help oneself...

yes im a hypocrite in some ways...

but theres also a difference in not being able to help oneself, and choosing not to help oneself.

 

[Dekka]

An example of a natural and organic pesticide to toxic to be legal in canada:

Nicotine
Nicotine is a natural insecticide from Nicotiana spp. (tobacco) stems and leaves. Have you ever wondered why the old folk insecticide of 'cigar buts soaked in water' is NOT recommended as an insecticide?

Advantages: Very toxic to insects as a contact insecticide. On a per dose basis it is 30 times as toxic as rotenone. Useful for knocking down chafers and other leaf eating insects in an emergency.

Disadvantages: On a per dose basis it is 30 times as toxic as rotenone. Basically, nicotine is considered too toxic, to birds and mammals, for some agricultural uses or for general garden use. The use of nicotine is discouraged by toxicologists. For certain applications the use of nicotine, a 'level 1 insecticide', is actually illegal.

as well check out your local rules as to what is called organic and what is not:

Origin

Usually pesticides are grouped in two categories: organic and inorganic pesticides. Organic pesticides contain carbon, while inorganic pesticides contain carbon which can be found only under the form of carbonate or cyanide. These pesticides are derivatives made from arsenic, mercury, fluorine, sulphur and copper, as well as derivatives made from cyanide.

by this definition (from Que gov) you could have a highly manufactured pesticide and as long as there are some carbon atoms in there.. its organic. (which is the real definiton of organic...)

And WHO (world health organization) has a concern trying to reduce the organic pesticides..

WHO | Reducing and eliminating the use of persistent organic pesticides: Guidance on alternative strategies for sustainable pest and vector management

So just cause it says organic.. it just means there are different rules, not that its better. But they market it as better. (just look at all the ppl in this thread who assume organic is better!)

People research about dog foods.. but I think we should do the same with our foods.

Organic Pesticides Fail EU Safety Review
Ask people who buy organic food what they like about it, and chances are, most will say “they’re grown without pesticides.†As I’ve pointed out repeatedly, that’s not actually true. While organic farmers do not use synthetic pesticides, they do use a variety of chemicals to control insects and plant diseases — including such potentially dangerous substances as copper sulfate, rotenone, pyrethrum, ryania, and sabadilla. These “organic†pesticides are derived from minerals or plants, are lightly processed, and thus are considered to be “natural†for the purposes of organic agriculture. Yet, ounce for ounce, most are at least as toxic or carcinogenic as many of the newest synthetic chemical pesticides

Now comes news from the UK’s Farmer’s Guardian newspaper that “[n]early half of the pesticides specially approved for use in organic farming [in the European Union] have failed EU safety tests and more could follow as the rules are tightened.†Conclusions of the risk assessments conducted by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) under EU Plant Protection Products regulations first implemented in 1996 can be found here.

Organic Pesticides Fail EU Safety Review|OpenMarket.org

 

[Fran27]

Yeah but there were actually research done with organic vs normal baby food and the babies fed organic had at least 50% less chemicals in their blood than the babies fed regular food.

So that number must be coming from somewhere.

 

[Dekka]

What chemicals were they looking for?

I should hope babies blood should be full of chemicals! (otherwise they would be dead.. wait well their blood would still be full of chemicals lol)

Potential issues with that statement Fran..

Are we talking pre packaged baby food?
If so how many manufactureres?
What chemicals? And are these chemicals found in both types of pesticides/herbicides? (they could be looking for chemicals that are ONLY found in non organic pesticides and herbicides)
Who funded the study?

This is from a website dedicated to people eating 'good' organic and raw foods and still they have this to say..

MAKING THE BEST CHOICES
Not everything labeled as ”organic” is fit for human consumption.
“Organic” shampoo is a case in point! The word has, like all words that ride on fashionable consumer bandwagons, become perverted in its meaning. The following guidelines will help you make the healthiest and safest choices:

1. In the USA each state has its own governing body that sets standards for organic produce. The state of California is the strictest. Look for produce that carries their certification entitled the California Organic Foods Act of 1990.
2. Maximise your consumption of plant based foods and avoid all meat and dairy.
3. Buy local produce whenever possible.
4. Focus on buying foods that are in season.
5. Be suspicious of produce displaying perfect flawless shape and un-naturally shiny skin.
6. Rub as well as wash produce. Farmers do not invest large amounts of money into chemicals that will wash off with the first drop of rain!
7. Non-organically grown apples and soft fruits are heavily sprayed. If organic alternatives are not available you are better off peeling them even though vital nutrients in the skin will be lost. If grapes are your preferred choice, search for a dedicated partner who is willing to peel them for you!
8. Support local organic farmers.
9. Best of all, “grow your own.” It is possible to grow more than most people think even in the smallest of places. Even window boxes can produce a plentiful harvest. Gardening is also a very effective form of stress management too. Have you ever seen a frenetic, time obsessed gardener?
10. Choose bottled water to drink in preference to tap water.

The Poisoning of Our foods - pesticides, organic produce and more