Don't you think there are enough...

[amymarley]

I agree.... BUT.... in ANY profession.... there are good and bad, and I have known "rep. breeders" to dump off "unwanted" pups to the shelters. At first the few I heard of and actually recommended to people, because I thought they were great (from interviews and seeing litters etc... and the way they "distribute.") I was very shocked. Human nature is bizare! This was not in just one state, but several.

Again, that's why I was so hostile... NOT ALL breeders are bad, I agree with that. I also believe we don't need to breed for awhile. I doubt any canines are going extinct soon. But again, this is MY life, what I see, what I live... I sickens me. I have to deal with the animal organizations daily... it hurts my heart. Yes, I can come off badly, but maybe now you know why......

By the way, I am a "so called parrot expert," and I belong to an avian organization... a lot of people there "breed" their parrots, and I HATE it. I was a guest lecturer there, and stated so much. It's not just dogs, its snakes, parrots, cats, rats, etc...... Sorry, I just don't believe in it, and I have several parrots here now because they were "bred" and people didn't realize that they have an I.Q. of 85-100 and live about 60 to 80 years... now I have them, which my 2 year old will inherit. The list goes on. The poor things were a "burden" on people. Again, that's why I work with animals and not with people.
Amy

 

[gunnerzmama]

I'm sure the person you spoke privatley to feels that she too has made a new friend and is very glad to see you back on the site. I feel for in what you see because I too deal with the ugly side of many people in the line of work I do. Like someone said above..."It's all good." Hey at least you are passionate about what you do, which means you are probably very good at it because you are so dedicated. I personally believe that once you get an animal they become your responsibility for the duration of their life unless there is some drastic reason why you couldn't keep them (ie if they were a biter or aggressive towards your children and the problem couldn't be corrected.) Then I still feel it would be the responsibility of the owner to find the animal a proper and good home.

 

[bubbatd]

You know Amy, you cannot change the world . You have a cause.. which I admire.. but now that you've gotten into parrots ... you've lost me. Maybe you've taken on more than you can handle. God bless !

 

[amymarley]

I have so not gotten into more than I can handle.... This is my job, my life, my livelyhood. I now have a thriving business, I lecture (and get paid) and do news articles (and get paid).... just to inform, the last lecture I did, I donated my "pay" back into the fund, so I didn't take a dime. I know this is a dog forum, but I am an all around animal person..... I never take on more than I can handle, well actually, I do, but I still come through....

Again,I know this is a dog forum, but my parrots are AWESOME! They have the i.q. of kindergarten (sp?) child. That's what I wrote a book about, so I am blessed.Sorry to say, they were from breeders, that got dropped off at a vet's office.... I incorporated them into my shows.... they had so much fun. The only one I took as a pet is my African Grey which is about 23 years old. My blue and gold bonded so much to me that I now have her as pet.... A thousand pound, per inch of pressure on her beak and she preens my eye lashes. We had about 14 parrots (orig. from breeders), that were "dropped off" at either vet offices or shelters, that came into our shows... after working (very easy work, haha) now have life long homes. And they are loving every minute of it. I kept a few as well as a dog that I started working with in 1995. We would rescue them, train them, give them any meds, great food, monthly vet appt. and exercise their mind. They would do a few minutes in our shows (like bomb sniffing) segment ...not real bombs... and get great treats, love and then after awhile a GREAT LIFE LONG HOME. Our animals had it good, that's why so many animal organizations tried to work with us.

 

[gunnerzmama]

..... I never take on more than I can handle, well actually, I do, but I still come through....

I tend to do the same thing too. Though I am slowly starting to learn to say "No" to somethings. This is a dog forum but from what I've seen you can discuss any kind of animal here. I know a few people that have horses. I have 2 cats but sorry no parrots. I am really not a big bird person. I think it comes from too many duck, geese, and rooster floggings growing up as a kid...though I think parrots are really pretty and have heard they are really smart. Ok, fine I'll admit it. I Jenn am scared of birds unless there the little ones eating out of my bird feeders. lol

 

[amymarley]

To Andrew.... (I have a number 5)
(1)Thanks for the warm welcome...
(2) Of course I know it's humans....that cause the most cruelty and death to our pets.. DUH!!! I don't care what the reasons are... if you can't take care of an ant, don't breed other breeds.
(3) Yeah, I will lump breeders, human and pets alike....but for different reasons... humans will breed animals to make a profit....regardless what they say, why else do it?
Humans will breed, and it's mostly impulsive, will have the tax payers pay for the child.... It's an on going process.... China is stopping the breeding... Not that I want to get into politics... But come on, we have 14 year olds having kids and we are paying for it. Parents/kids are repeating the cycle..... we should know better. I for one am sick of paying for some elses welfare and child costs. I "bred" when I was ready, at 30 years old. I have NEVER taken from the system - EVER. I am so tired of paying for someone else. And never mind the money I put into the animal rescue....I love the animals, they don't know any better...
(4). I don't get your number 4..............
Botom line, what are you trying to say.

 

[amymarley]

Jenn, you are sooo funny! I had pigeons and ducks trained in our shows by the clicker method. As for parrots...YES, (parrots) they are scary since they have so much power. As soon as I publish(I have literary agents that want me), I just have to get off my butt and send it... ) ANY ENGLISH MAJORS HERE>>>> I HAVE THE BOOK, BUT SOOOO DON'T WANT TO DO THE PROPSAL.
But I will send you a signed copy and you will see that parrots are awesome. They are itimidating, but so cool. I am helping other pet sitters at the moment( in my area about parrots) , so they can take in more revenue. I just love my parrots.... horses too.... trained them, nothing like taking a bottle wine, or brandy and going bare back through the woods. It's good for the soul.
Amy

 

[gunnerzmama]

Yeah I could handle hiding in the woods sometimes. Honey I love to read so you get it published and I would be honored to have a signed copy. I was almost an English major but changed to Criminal Justice and Psych but I am a stickler on grammar and spelling. I got an A on every paper I have ever submitted when I was in college so if you need anything let me know. I'll help any way I can.

 

[gunnerzmama]

P.S. The only duck I like is the one in the AFLAC commercial. he he Now he cracks me up and doesn't seem to scary.

 

[yuckaduck]

I am still not convinced but anyway, No Reputable Breeder would dump puppies anywhere, period. If a breeder has dumped puppies in a shelter or on your lap then they had no business breeding in the first place; they were not reputable. I feel for your cause too, I am trying to get the finishing touches set up on my kennels so I can start a rescue here in my area. THere really is nothing except the shelter and of course most people here dump there dogs and puppies in the La Rose Forest. So very sad, I am hoping to offer something better, than that for those poor animals. No questions asked drop off, which will be over run in no time but it is better then the woods. I found a muzzled yellow lab puppy this morning there. Probably around 4 months, no collar, just a muzzle on! Now that is not even giving the dog a chance, people are so inhumane and cruel. She is actually in the house right now, poor scared thing, I am sure she has seen the back of a hand before or a foot.

 

[bridey_01]

Animalbiz, you trained parrots for shows? I currently do shows with my three dogs and a little goat, and would LOVE to get a parrot in on the act. I'm very familiar with clicker training (I'm a canine behaviourist) and would love to hear your experiences.
Ironically, I'm slightly scared of those big beaks, and I work with super aggressive dogs all day!

 

[AndrewF]

To Andrew.... (I have a number 5)
(1)Thanks for the warm welcome...
(2) Of course I know it's humans....that cause the most cruelty and death to our pets.. DUH!!! I don't care what the reasons are... if you can't take care of an ant, don't breed other breeds.
(3) Yeah, I will lump breeders, human and pets alike....but for different reasons... humans will breed animals to make a profit....regardless what they say, why else do it?
Humans will breed, and it's mostly impulsive, will have the tax payers pay for the child.... It's an on going process.... China is stopping the breeding... Not that I want to get into politics... But come on, we have 14 year olds having kids and we are paying for it. Parents/kids are repeating the cycle..... we should know better. I for one am sick of paying for some elses welfare and child costs. I "bred" when I was ready, at 30 years old. I have NEVER taken from the system - EVER. I am so tired of paying for someone else. And never mind the money I put into the animal rescue....I love the animals, they don't know any better...
(4). I don't get your number 4..............
Botom line, what are you trying to say.

No problem. A good debate is always welcome. However, spare me the "duh"'s and other school-yard rhetoric. It's impulsive and does nothing to promote intellegent conversation.

Saying 'don't' has never been a useful solution. Look at China, as you made reference to. They're trying to limit the number of children born, to 1 per household and the result is a booming export of the unwanted babies.

You're right about having to pay for other peoples mistakes. However, we do and we don't have a set of realistic consequences for those who make those mistakes - like making them get a job and raise their children. Do that, and teen pregnancy will likely drop.

Point 4 has to do with the fact that although there's lots of animals in shelters, people will bypass a 1 year old dog in the pound for the sake of getting a puppy.....regardless of that animals need - whether it's the politically correct thing to do or not.

 

[amymarley]

Andrew, sorry for the choice of using the word, "duh." I was NOT referring to you, just to the situation and the dumb people out there, not meant to direct that at you at all. Sorry if I worded that wrong.
Anyway, I know saying "don't" will not solve anything, but I am just mad and passionate about it. Referring to this and other theads.... I do know some really good, well-meaning people out there that I have met over the years, that do breed their animals, whether it be dogs, cats, parrots...whatever. My point, that I am so poorly trying to state (because of my fustration)....is that I and many others are the ones to pick up the pieces the best we can. Some examples that got me going was that I my baby sitters good friend had 2 cats... 2 femals, not spayed. First off, I live in Nevada, bad place for out door cats that get eated by coyetes all the time. Both of her cats had litters....even after I "nicely" (for real, nicely) explained to her the importance of getting her cats fixed. NOPE... than one of the same cats had yet another litter. Last week she took both cats and the litters to a shelter. It hurt my heart.

On another post, yes, there are rep. breeders who DO drop off their "unwanted" animals. I actually rescued a boston terrier from a strip club, yes a stip club. The valet manager's wife is supposed to be a respected breeder, kennels, nice set up, from what I was told from my friend who bartends there. She advertises all over... He brought 2 of the dogs that "wouldn't sell" to the valet "shed" everynight for a week and my friend called me and asked if I could incorporate at least one of these dogs in my shows, or he was going to "drop them off" at a shelter. I did go there, spoke with the guy, one dog was already gone and he tried selling her to me for $300.00. I laughed and ended up taking her home for free. God knows where the other one went. She did not end up doing my shows, but I did find her a good home. I can go on and on about so called (NOT ALL) rep. breeders, even if they have their "friend" or brother drop them off at a shelter, it happens.

 

[amymarley]

Bridey.... I could speak with you personally about training a parrot. It would take to long to post on how to train, but since you train dogs, you would pick it up quick. Anyway, birds love to "show off," and exercise their minds. I clicker trained some, used hand signals for most. BUT, realize that parrots are very attached to one person, and if you do aquire to a guardian of one, please make it a life long companion. They get very much attached. Blue and gold macaws are very smart and very fun.... they make a lot less noise than any type of cockatoo...but cockatoos are very funny and love to show off. They require A LOT more attention than a blue and gold. They want to be with you and out of the cage a lot. What type of show do you do? WHere do you do it and how often. I may be able to give you some ideas on a 3 to 5 minute segment depending on what you want to do. My first advice would be to join an avian group in your area and read up as much as you can. Anyway, would love to discuss this with you so email or call me at any time and I will help where I can. Also, most avain clubs...I belong to one, have an adoption program. Again, they also have breeders there (hate it...) but you will learn a lot.
Amy

 

[RD]

On another post, yes, there are rep. breeders who DO drop off their "unwanted" animals. I actually rescued a boston terrier from a strip club, yes a stip club. The valet manager's wife is supposed to be a respected breeder, kennels, nice set up, from what I was told from my friend who bartends there. She advertises all over... He brought 2 of the dogs that "wouldn't sell" to the valet "shed" everynight for a week and my friend called me and asked if I could incorporate at least one of these dogs in my shows, or he was going to "drop them off" at a shelter. I did go there, spoke with the guy, one dog was already gone and he tried selling her to me for $300.00. I laughed and ended up taking her home for free. God knows where the other one went. She did not end up doing my shows, but I did find her a good home. I can go on and on about so called (NOT ALL) rep. breeders, even if they have their "friend" or brother drop them off at a shelter, it happens.

I find it unfortunate that you consider that to be a responsible breeder. Again, perhaps you really do need to meet a TRULY responsible breeder before you can understand the way good breeders think.

Zoom put it perfectly on post 38.

 

[amymarley]

RD, and to the rest, I am not trying to be confrontational.... Yes, I did come off strong at the beginning... but calmed down with the help of some really nice people here. At the beginning, when a person (a very nice person, might I add) thought I was just a troll and said that you should look at all of my posts and see how hostile and/or vulgar I was being....until her and I spoke privetly....)
The reason why I "laid out" my experience and expertise and livelyhood, was not to bragg, show off, or try to impress anyone here, I could really care less... I don't know anyone here, so it would do me no good. I laid out my name, phone number, website, email and everything else so that it showed that I was not "some troll" with no experience or knowledge. I did all that for a reason, I have nothing to hide, willing to share and open to advice. Don't you think with all the posts that I have posted, that I have not "come across several dozen rep. breeders" in all my years of working with animals? Of course I have! Some are great and mean very well.... others have the illusion of being rep. breeders and are awful. Again, don't have enough space here or time to go through them all... but just like anyone, policemen, firemen, bankers, DOCTORS, pilots, there are good and bad, just because they can fit the uniform, does not make them rep. or good by any means. That's all I was trying to say. And because this is my job, I have more information than the average person. No, it does not make me special in any way, and again, I am not trying to throw my experience in your face, but I had to lay down my experience in order for any one to believe my posts (which some still refuse to believe). Again, I was not some anonomous person posting, I laid my whole life out there with all of my contact information, so I have nothing to hide, only hope to help some pets out there. oh, I could also carry on about horse breeding, rabbit breeding, cat breeding, snake breeding and so on... some good, some bad.... still unessesary..... I have/do deal with a lot of it.
Again, I know there are some really great, caring breeders out there...but in truth.... are we in dire straights that we need to keep breeding at the moment.

Is there dogs, and right now I am just speaking of dogs... is there such a short supply of working dogs, or breeds at this time, this moment that we need to breed more? Our we as a people, in such a bind that we need 13,000 new litters this year? Are we in such a short supply? I think this last paragraph says what I want to say.

 

[bridey_01]

I see what you are saying, animalbiz. People will justify their breeding with great ethics and the claim "it is for the betterment of the breed". Even if they buy their litters collars made of gold and feed them caviar and have every possible health check done, they are still bringing unecessary puppies into existance, still supporting an avenue seperate from saving a very needy shelter dog.

 

[Renee750il]

Something to consider: if the truly responsible breeders call a moratorium on breeding, only the irresponsible breeders will be left holding the health, physical and mental welfare of dogs in their hands. And responsible breeders are the only ones who would ever honor a moratorium.

And, there are those of us who actually do need our pure-bred working dogs. For example, we raise cattle; the Filas answer exactly the requirements of our farm and our lifestyle in ways that no other breed - or cross - does, including keeping the out of control coyote population at bay!

I've got to agree with RD and the others: anyone who would just "drop off" puppies like those you spoke of is most emphatically NOT a responsible breeder. Assuring that the puppies you are responsible for producing have responsible, loving homes and being adamant that those pups be returned to you in the event they must be re-homed is an integral part of what most of us here consider being a responsible breeder. Anything less falls short of the standard.

 

[bridey_01]

Ahh I'm divided on the issue. I see the need for some of the purebreds (the ones that havn't been hopelessly inbred to the point of dopiness) yet I can't stop thinking of the shelter dogs. It really is a terrible issue.

 

[RD]

RD, and to the rest, I am not trying to be confrontational.... Yes, I did come off strong at the beginning... but calmed down with the help of some really nice people here. At the beginning, when a person (a very nice person, might I add) thought I was just a troll and said that you should look at all of my posts and see how hostile and/or vulgar I was being....until her and I spoke privetly....)
The reason why I "laid out" my experience and expertise and livelyhood, was not to bragg, show off, or try to impress anyone here, I could really care less... I don't know anyone here, so it would do me no good. I laid out my name, phone number, website, email and everything else so that it showed that I was not "some troll" with no experience or knowledge. I did all that for a reason, I have nothing to hide, willing to share and open to advice. Don't you think with all the posts that I have posted, that I have not "come across several dozen rep. breeders" in all my years of working with animals? Of course I have! Some are great and mean very well.... others have the illusion of being rep. breeders and are awful. Again, don't have enough space here or time to go through them all... but just like anyone, policemen, firemen, bankers, DOCTORS, pilots, there are good and bad, just because they can fit the uniform, does not make them rep. or good by any means. That's all I was trying to say. And because this is my job, I have more information than the average person. No, it does not make me special in any way, and again, I am not trying to throw my experience in your face, but I had to lay down my experience in order for any one to believe my posts (which some still refuse to believe). Again, I was not some anonomous person posting, I laid my whole life out there with all of my contact information, so I have nothing to hide, only hope to help some pets out there. oh, I could also carry on about horse breeding, rabbit breeding, cat breeding, snake breeding and so on... some good, some bad.... still unessesary..... I have/do deal with a lot of it.
Again, I know there are some really great, caring breeders out there...but in truth.... are we in dire straights that we need to keep breeding at the moment.

Is there dogs, and right now I am just speaking of dogs... is there such a short supply of working dogs, or breeds at this time, this moment that we need to breed more? Our we as a people, in such a bind that we need 13,000 new litters this year? Are we in such a short supply? I think this last paragraph says what I want to say.

Yes, your last paragraph gets your point across clearly.

If I ever want a dog, just for the purpose of being a companion, I'll be first in line at the local shelter. I am not ignoring the fact that there are MANY wonderful pets that desperately need homes. I volunteer regularly at the shelter here, I have experience with what you are speaking of as well. I understand your point, but in three years of volunteering and working with nearly each and every dog there, I have yet to see one come through the shelter doors that would suit what I need.
However, in regards to your comment on 'short supply'.. I think that healthy, temperamentally sound dogs with good working ability and no major behavioral issues -are- in short supply. This is why people go to reputable breeders, to buy a puppy from them.

I see your point very clearly, but what I'm arguing is that what you are describing are not reputable, responsible breeders. I don't doubt that you have met many breeders, but I don't think you have met the 'best of the best', the ones that I think of when I think of a good breeder. They don't breed just to get puppies out there, or just for fun - they breed to improve and preserve their breed of choice. Responsible breeding is done out of a love for the breed, not out of greed or selfishness.

On a final note, a responsible breeder will take back any dog they bred - at any age. A close friend of mine bred Aussies for years, she wound up taking back a 10-year-old dog once. The owners were jerks to just abandon the dog, but no way would the breeder have ever let him go to a shelter. THAT is what it's about - taking responsibility for the dogs that you help bring into the world. How can you say that breeders like that are bad? Hardly ANY dogs from truly responsible breeders wind up abandoned. (Mind you I said TRULY RESPONSIBLE breeders, not these "rep. breeders" that you speak of who would just dump their puppies off at the shelter.)
Instead of targeting responsible breeders to yell at them about overpopulation, please target the backyard breeders and puppymills, who are the ones contributing to 99.9% of the unwanted dog population.

I feel terrible about the problem with homeless pets, and I do all I can on my limited time to help shelters out. However, I felt I had to stick up for the excellent breeders who you failed to represent in your posts.

I still doubt that you have met breeders who are breeding for the right reasons, because what you describe just doesn't fit the standards for a responsible, ethical breeder.