Do you believe in spanking kids?

[zoe08]

I think talk about spanking being not good causes a lot of people to think, oh they say spanking isn't good so I'm not happy with my parents cuz they spanked me.

If everyone missed the lyrics of the song i posted earlier by Bucky Covington
"We got daddy's belt when we misbehaved.....We turned out alright"

Is like everyone over 40 scarred because they got spanked as kids? The people who have so much distress over it either A: think about it too much, or B: they were abused. And spanking is not abuse. There is a difference.

I don't think spanking is a punishment for everything, but when you have repeatedly told your child not to walk in the middle of the street, or to not touch the stove, it is better they get spanked, than ran over or burned. And again, spanking doesn't work on every child. And there is all sorts of creative punishment that isn't physical. But I think every parent should do whatever works best for their child. And I don't think anyone should ever go into parenting with the "it won't happen to me" attitude.

 

[malmo]

This is a sensitive subject for me. I am absolutely against using any kind of violence against another living creature -- human, canine, or whatever.

That said, I am a family therapist that works in community mental health. I deal all day long with structure and discipline and kids who act out and parents who are at the end of their rope. One of the parts of my job that suck is that I am legally mandated to report "any suspicion of child abuse." I can tell you that in California, I am required to call and report anything OTHER than hitting on the buttocks with an open palm. Hitting with an implement, a closed fist, leaving "a mark," or hitting anywhere except a "fleshy" part of the body (I believe this is buttocks and maybe upper arm?) is illegal and can result in a police report. I end up making a LOT of calls. They aren't always picked up by the department, but yeah. The calls get made.

I can also tell you, in contrast to what many people here are saying, that plenty of kids who are spanked are not well-behaved. Spanking is not the ultimate answer. Lots of little sh!ts are routinely spanked and they still talk back to authority figures. In fact, they may be even worse for the wear. They end up in my office and I have to try to undo the damage that their parents have done. There are other ways to discipline and shape children. Modeling is a very powerful way to teach children, for better or worse. As has been said many times, so much depends on the children and each child is really different.

In my opinion, violence and inconsistency are more often than not a result of lazy parenting. I'm sorry if this offends people. It's just "easier" to swat a child to get his attention than to drop what you're doing, kneel down, get eye contact, and make sure he's listening. It's also really difficult to be truly consistent with rewards and punishments -- most of us know this from working with our dogs!

Anyway, I won't get totally up on my soapbox about this one, but consider me in the "anti-spank" department.

PS: I wish all of my clients had as good of parents as ACooper and her husband seem to be. I hope your kids don't compare notes, though. The ones that get hit and the ones that lose TV privileges may not be able to accurately interpret the differences in their treatment. It might come off more as favoritism or injustice...? Although I still disagree with the swats and spanks, it's nice to hear you trying to be thoughtful and creative with your discipline and parenting.

Anyway. I'm definitely not trying to pick a fight... just expressing my opinions.



ETA: A few more softening words, so I don't come off as an a$$.

 

[Romy]

This is a sensitive subject for me. I am absolutely against using any kind of violence against another living creature -- human, canine, or whatever.

That said, I am a family therapist that works in community mental health. I am legally mandated to report suspicion of child abuse. I can tell you that in California, I am required to call and report anything OTHER than hitting on the buttocks with an open palm. Hitting with an implement, a closed fist, leaving "a mark," or hitting anywhere except a "fleshy" part of the body (I believe this is buttocks and maybe upper arm?) is illegal and can result in a police report. I end up making a LOT of calls. They aren't always picked up by the department, but yeah. The calls get made.

I can also tell you, in contrast to what many people here are saying, that plenty of kids who are spanked are not well-behaved. They end up in my office and I have to try to undo the damage that their parents have done. There are other ways to discipline and shape children. Modeling is a very powerful way to teach children, for better or worse.

In my opinion, violence and inconsistency are more often than not a result of lazy parenting. I'm sorry if this offends people. It's just "easier" to swat a child to get his attention than to drop what you're doing, kneel down, get eye contact, and make sure he's listening. It's also really difficult to be truly consistent with rewards and punishments -- most of us know this from working with our dogs!

Anyway, I won't get totally up on my soapbox about this one, but consider me in the "anti-spank" department.

PS: I wish all of my clients had as good of parents as ACooper and her husband seem to be. Although I still disagree with the swats and spanks, it's nice to hear you trying to be thoughtful and creative with your discipline and training. I hope your kids don't compare notes, though. The ones that get hit and the ones that lose TV privileges may not be able to accurately interpret the differences in their treatment. It might come off more as favoritism or injustice...? Just a thought.

Anyway. Not trying to pick a fight... just expressing my opinions.

:hail:

Firmly in the anti-spank department as well. I have spent MANY years as a nanny, as well as in the public school system as an early intervention specialist. I can completely back you up on the "spanking does not equal good behavior" front. Most of my clients in the nannying business were highly paid doctors, lawyers, city council-dudes, etc. and the vast majority had privileged bratty children. Some were spanked, some were not. ALL of them I had to find ways to discipline without laying a finger on, as they were not my children, and it certainly can be done very effectively. Try taking screaming, whining, wailing, banshees who hit their mothers and scream all the time (did I mention the screaming?) and "retrain" them without laying a finger. It really can be done. After several months of watching their children parents would approach me and say how wonderfully behaved their children had become after I started taking care of them. Maybe if they didn't give in to every single screech and bothered to teach them some gentleness and empathy for others?

Compare that to a lot of the kids in the school that I worked with. Tons of energy, belligerent, mouthy, angry blah blah blah. Similar approaches worked with them. Again, there was a mixture of spanked and non spanked kids in that group as well.

I view it the same way I view training my dog......I have two opposable thumbs, and am hopefully smarter. With those tools, I should never have to get physical with anybody to prove a point. All that would mean is that I am a stupid brute.

Blah, I'll stop ranting now.

 

[Doberluv]

This is a sensitive subject for me. I am absolutely against using any kind of violence against another living creature -- human, canine, or whatever.

That said, I am a family therapist that works in community mental health. I deal all day long with structure and discipline and kids who act out and parents who are at the end of their rope. One of the parts of my job that suck is that I am legally mandated to report "any suspicion of child abuse." I can tell you that in California, I am required to call and report anything OTHER than hitting on the buttocks with an open palm. Hitting with an implement, a closed fist, leaving "a mark," or hitting anywhere except a "fleshy" part of the body (I believe this is buttocks and maybe upper arm?) is illegal and can result in a police report. I end up making a LOT of calls. They aren't always picked up by the department, but yeah. The calls get made.

I can also tell you, in contrast to what many people here are saying, that plenty of kids who are spanked are not well-behaved. Spanking is not the ultimate answer. Lots of little sh!ts are routinely spanked and they still talk back to authority figures. In fact, they may be even worse for the wear. They end up in my office and I have to try to undo the damage that their parents have done. There are other ways to discipline and shape children. Modeling is a very powerful way to teach children, for better or worse. As has been said many times, so much depends on the children and each child is really different.

In my opinion, violence and inconsistency are more often than not a result of lazy parenting. I'm sorry if this offends people. It's just "easier" to swat a child to get his attention than to drop what you're doing, kneel down, get eye contact, and make sure he's listening. It's also really difficult to be truly consistent with rewards and punishments -- most of us know this from working with our dogs!

Anyway, I won't get totally up on my soapbox about this one, but consider me in the "anti-spank" department.

PS: I wish all of my clients had as good of parents as ACooper and her husband seem to be. I hope your kids don't compare notes, though. The ones that get hit and the ones that lose TV privileges may not be able to accurately interpret the differences in their treatment. It might come off more as favoritism or injustice...? Although I still disagree with the swats and spanks, it's nice to hear you trying to be thoughtful and creative with your discipline and parenting.

Anyway. I'm definitely not trying to pick a fight... just expressing my opinions.



ETA: A few more softening words, so I don't come off as an a$$.

:hail:

Firmly in the anti-spank department as well. I have spent MANY years as a nanny, as well as in the public school system as an early intervention specialist. I can completely back you up on the "spanking does not equal good behavior" front. Most of my clients in the nannying business were highly paid doctors, lawyers, city council-dudes, etc. and the vast majority had privileged bratty children. Some were spanked, some were not. ALL of them I had to find ways to discipline without laying a finger on, as they were not my children, and it certainly can be done very effectively. Try taking screaming, whining, wailing, banshees who hit their mothers and scream all the time (did I mention the screaming?) and "retrain" them without laying a finger. It really can be done. After several months of watching their children parents would approach me and say how wonderfully behaved their children had become after I started taking care of them. Maybe if they didn't give in to every single screech and bothered to teach them some gentleness and empathy for others?

Compare that to a lot of the kids in the school that I worked with. Tons of energy, belligerent, mouthy, angry blah blah blah. Similar approaches worked with them. Again, there was a mixture of spanked and non spanked kids in that group as well.

I view it the same way I view training my dog......I have two opposable thumbs, and am hopefully smarter. With those tools, I should never have to get physical with anybody to prove a point. All that would mean is that I am a stupid brute.

Blah, I'll stop ranting now.

Good posts, both of you. You took the words right off my keyboard. :hail:

If you wanted to drive a nail into an oak tree but there was no such thing as a hammer or a rock or anything hard enough to drive the nail, (those things didn't exist) you would conclude that the nail can not be driven into the tree. But if you were handed a hammer or a rock, you'd discover that you could drive the nail into the oak tree.

If you don't know of or use the tools to train without harsh aversives, you say it can not be done. But that is false and proven false. There are tools for training dogs and children that exist but you haven't found them yet. And as long as you stand still and insist that you have all the tools, you won't discover. All the great inventions were not made by people who stood still and denied themselves the gift of discovery.

 

[yoko]

honestly swats were the only way my parents could get to me. and you couldn't blame them for trying though. took away my radio so i read. took away my books so i wrote, took away paper and pens rearranged posters took them out too. for four years my room was a bed. no radio no clock no anything and you know what i could care less. i had a super imagination and would day dream or nap. i mean yeah i was pissed *was grounded for 5 years... and i'm not talking school years. i'm talking years years. as in summer too. no activities outside of school. so whenever someone is like 'i'm grounded FOREVER' i laugh because they usually have NO idea* *i was kind of a bad kid* but you know what with swats i respect my elders. if i was late for cerfew i ALWAYS called. i didn't even see drugs until i was in college and never touched them. i didn't drink until i was 18. *grad high school at 17 so was in college atleast* so i figured i was doing pretty good. there are some kids i wish their parents would swat them. after working in a restaurant you would not believe how kids act and parents are like 'aw that's so sweet']

also we tell people not to spank dogs. don't humanize them they don't understand what's going on. that's correct but don't... canineize a kid. at a certain age they do know what they did and they are capable of connecting the deed with the punishment

 

[Squishy22]

also we tell people not to spank dogs. don't humanize them they don't understand what's going on. that's correct but don't... canineize a kid. at a certain age they do know what they did and they are capable of connecting the deed with the punishment

Just because a child knows why they are being hit doesn't make it right. Are you saying that if a dog knew why it was being hit makes it ok? If you smack a dog for barking and the dog makes the connection that barking equals pain, then its ok?

Just my opinion!

 

[Squishy22]

I think talk about spanking being not good causes a lot of people to think, oh they say spanking isn't good so I'm not happy with my parents cuz they spanked me.

If everyone missed the lyrics of the song i posted earlier by Bucky Covington
"We got daddy's belt when we misbehaved.....We turned out alright"

Is like everyone over 40 scarred because they got spanked as kids? The people who have so much distress over it either A: think about it too much, or B: they were abused. And spanking is not abuse. There is a difference.

I don't think spanking is a punishment for everything, but when you have repeatedly told your child not to walk in the middle of the street, or to not touch the stove, it is better they get spanked, than ran over or burned. And again, spanking doesn't work on every child. And there is all sorts of creative punishment that isn't physical. But I think every parent should do whatever works best for their child. And I don't think anyone should ever go into parenting with the "it won't happen to me" attitude.

People say spanking works better than taking away privileges or time-out. Well, I was spanked when I did something I wasn't supposed to do, but I just got more sneakier with what I was doing, lol. It didnt make me straighten up just like that like some people seem to think it works.

 

[Buckshot]

I have to agree with the grounding thing. Take my liberty and I will take it back. I was grounded through a couple school years, I snuck out anyway, just at night. Kids on the street at night tend to be bad influences.

I wasnt hit much, but I did know that getting physical with the old man was a bad choice. I think what did help was lots of time and communication. Fishing trips and going to work with dad did wonders for me. I see how my sisters kids, who are completely out of control around her, are angels around me. She punishes by grounding and taking away privileges. I dont punish, I dont have to, we talk openly without the yelling my sister thinks she has to go through. I have no idea what the answer is, but she has not established that she is in charge.

I have a friend that I think is doing it right. He has very open lines of communication and I have never known him to hit his kids. If they are out of line he doesnt get loud, but they know that it is time to change their behaviour. There is certainly a feeling of danger in the air when he gets pushed too far.

 

[Squishy22]

The sexual dangers of spanking children... http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm

Just something I found and thought it was interesting. Never heard of it before. What are your opinions on this? I'm not sure about this one.

Another link about the subject...
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/662/context/archive

 

[Buckshot]

The sexual dangers of spanking children... http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm

Just something I found and thought it was interesting. Never heard of it before. What are your opinions on this? I'm not sure about this one.

Another link about the subject...
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/662/context/archive

I cant say that I buy this one. I think that if someone is going to spank, the buttocks is the safest place to do it. It was never a sexual thing with me and I would rather take a swat to the butt than to any other place on my body. As for being a shameful punishment, I cant see it drawing more shame than crating them like we crate unruly adults. I would be interested to see the effect public spankings would have on vandals. I remember a time when some American kid got caught vandalizing in another country and was publicly caned..I should look that up and see how that form of punishment compares with ours in regards to repeat offenders.

 

[Squishy22]

I cant say that I buy this one. I think that if someone is going to spank, the buttocks is the safest place to do it. It was never a sexual thing with me and I would rather take a swat to the butt than to any other place on my body. As for being a shameful punishment, I cant see it drawing more shame than crating them like we crate unruly adults. I would be interested to see the effect public spankings would have on vandals. I remember a time when some American kid got caught vandalizing in another country and was publicly caned..I should look that up and see how that form of punishment compares with ours in regards to repeat offenders.

I am not sure if I buy it either, but it kind of makes sense in a way only with female children thought. The butt is a private area especially with females.

Its interesting to say the least.

 

[Red_ACD_for_me]

Yes, I believe in spanking and there is a BIG difference between a scolding (spanking) and all out abuse. I was smacked on the butt as a child when I was out of line and I'm fine. My daughter is a really sweet little girl and listens 99% of the time so I really don't feel the need to spank her when she does get fresh. This society is a little to "PC" over the top today and parents let their children get away with to much In stead of Johnny getting a spank on the behind when he acts out its....."Johnny honey, go take a time out and sit in your time out chair"

 

[Maxy24]

I'm not completely against it, but I really hate when it's done so frequently for reasons that really don't require it. I would spank if it's something he's doing that is quite dangerous to himself or others (running in the street because he thinks it's funny not to listen to you, biting other kids etc.). I was spanked as a child, not as much as my brothers because behaved better. I can only remember one of the times though, I was loosing a game of checkers with my brother and he was bragging about it, so I picked up the board and threw it at him, then dad spanked me. All I remember was that making me angry at my brother because he was standing there smiling. I doubt this has anything to do with that but I now hate playing any game with my family because I fear loosing.

I think it's a problem when spankers are also yellers. When a kid gets yelled at too much they kind of just let it go, it has no significance because they are so to it. When I got yelled at by my mom I came close to tears, it's a normally calm person yelling, to make them yell it is a BIG deal. When someone who yells all the time yells, it's just normal, it what they do. I think the same can happen with spanking, they get so used to it that it's no big deal any more. I think it should be for major offenses. And you must explain why they got the spanking and how they should handle themselves next time.

But I have watched that Nanny 911 show and I like it. They don't spank and she can turn those kids around. I have never seen a kid cry so hard while in time out. Once they actually emptied all the kids toys from the house, every time he was bad they took a few out. Then they just took them all out. It worked well. For another house they had a "good deed jar" so every time the kid did something good they could put a marble in the jar. Every time they did something bad they had to take one out. Who ever had the most marbles at the end of the week got a special treat.

I really think the key to methods that don't use spanking, is to be consistent. I've seen them pick a kid up and put him back into time out 30 or more times before he stayed. He thought eventually they would give up, but they didn't so he stayed. He might test them with it the next few times but once he learns he can't win he'll stay the first time he is put there. I really do like that show, it takes time to earn the child's respect but once you do he will listen. I also feel that consistency needs to be something that is started as soon as the child is born. Don't start imposing rules only when the child first starts acting out, don't let him get away with anything that is against the rules ever. But I would really like some experiment done with a group of people who spank and a group that uses another method, make sure they do it consistently, and see what happens when the kids are older, that way we can all know what really works best.

 

[Angel Chicken]

I do not agree with it. I don't believe in causing physical pain to a child because they did something wrong. I think there are better ways of correcting a child. Taking away privileges and time-out works just as well or even better. Consequences for actions are a must, but not physical pain.

I'm just picking apart your post here for a tec... not trying to attack you or anything sweetie

Taking away privileges and time out doesn't always work, however it depends on the kid. With Matt, he can be grounded and have his TV taken away and he is punished enough, nothing else will be done. He won't be happy but he won't do the offense again. However, with Johnny, who is alot more... hardheaded and smart assed, it may take a butt whoopin' to let him know the same offense isn't tolerated.

I'd love to find my parenting class book later today and post the "Building Blocks" of punishment for you guys... to see what you think. It's quite interesting!

 

[HoundedByHounds]

Yes I spank and yes it's a tool in the box...not the ONLY tool...but a tool nonetheless. No reason to argue the point for me because my kids are mine and yours are yours and it's not a contest about who can raise the most well adjusted children...you just do it.

 

[HarleyD]

I was spanked up until I was about 12 years old. With that said, I was only spanked (that I can remember) 3 - 5 times in those 12 years. I had to have done something VERY bad to get a spanking. My mom spanked, my dad had "the Look". When I got "the Look" I stopped doing whatever I was doing cause I knew if I didn't there was a very high possibility I was 1. doing something wrong 2. could get spanked if I didn't stop.

My mom used a hairbrush once and a belt that she wore twice and her hand once.

We used to get spanked in school - big old wooden paddle with holes. However, first time offenders (especially if you had good grades) usually had to write lines OR had to "act" like they were getting spanked if more than one person had been caught doing something and the others had a previous bad behavior. The previous bad behavers automatically got spanked while first time offenders acted like it so the others thought they were all being treated equally.

All of this being said... I do not feel that my life was scarred or changed by spankings. They were dolled out only when necessary and I had priveleges (sp?) taken away on other occasions. I think time outs work well with little kids, priveleges being taken away work better with slightly older children, grounding works better with mid teens...however, I believe you should always explain to your child what they did, why it was wrong, and why they are being punished. In some instances, let them assist with the punishment decision. This way they learn fairness as well.

So yes, I believe in spanking. Probably only if someone got hurt because of what was done (physically), if they made another child cry or were very rude to an adult or did not respect authority (within reason for the age).

 

[smkie]

Mom mother ran a licensed daycare in her home. Over a 25 year period of time i can promise you i just about saw enough of parents and toddlers, the wide variety of attempts to control, tired parents, tired children being rushed while half asleep, rushed to the car to go home. I never saw my mother raise her voice or strike one of those children, and she was as consistant as the sun rising and setting. Toys were always in their places and the children knew where to find them and where to return them. SNacks and lunch were at the same time, rules never changed. Punishing by striking and yelling are barbaric i can't believe in this day and age that people have not risen above this yet. I vowed never to strike my children, only once did i slap my daughter when she was 14. To this day i wish i could take it back, even if she was pushing every button i had, was in my face, it was wrong. I was the one that lost control. If we want a society that is non violent, we best figure out a way to raise our children in a manner that teaches without anger.

 

[ACooper]

Yes I spank and yes it's a tool in the box...not the ONLY tool...but a tool nonetheless. No reason to argue the point for me because my kids are mine and yours are yours and it's not a contest about who can raise the most well adjusted children...you just do it

Heheheheheh, that's right!

And the honest to goodness truth is WE WILL ALL screw up in someway, some form. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not, your kids will grow up and hate the way you did this or that and believe you did it wrong........THEY will have BIG plans of doing it better than YOU. They might succeed in correcting what they feel YOUR mistakes were but then THEY will screw up in another area with your grandchildren.

Do the best you can as long as it is coming from LOVE and wanting your child to be a healthy, happy, responsible adult.

 

[HarleyD]

Sometimes I wonder if we got all the bombers, attackers, terrorist (american), killers and rapists together and asked them all if they were spanked or if they had time-out that we'd get a varied response from all ends. I don't think spanking makes or breaks a child. I think environment (how they live, if parents are home, if they yell alot or hit each other, etc), love or lack of it, schooling and if they were actually BEAT as a child makes a difference. Some of our most infamous killers were raised beautifully as children, others were hollered at and beat. THere is just something inside of all of us that causes us to be one way or another and our environment, parents, school and friends contribute to it. JMO

 

[Gempress]

I dont think a young child is going to understand that. I was spanked as a child and I was known to hit other children that took my toys. I think violence teaches violence.

I think that's an unfair statement. I was spanked occassionally as a child, and I NEVER physically hurt other children. Neither did countless other children I know who were disciplined in that manner. I don't hate my parents, I don't have violence issues, I don't think hitting is ok. And neither do many of my fellow "spankees".

It always bothers me when I see any of those arguments made against spanking. It doesn't make sense. If you think about it, entire generations in this country were basically raised by spanking. They were certainly not all violent, problematic adults.

And there is a difference between spanking a dog and spanking a child. A dog doesn't speak the same language, have the same parent-child relationship, and doesn't even have the same thought processes or intelligence as a human. How can a dog possibly be expected to understand what's going on?

But a human child understands perfectly. "I did wrong, so they spanked me. But they still love me. I have nothing to fear."

I do think that time-outs and other forms of discipline do work. But I have no problems if a parent chooses to spank his or her child, as long as it's not done out of anger or is abusive.