Coolies

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by avaloncoolies, Jan 4, 2013.

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  1. CatStina

    CatStina SBT Lover!!

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    More people think Saxon is a Pit Bull than recognize him as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. There is a fair amount of variety in the SBT, Pit Bull, AmStaff and other Bull Breeds, as well. Many recognized breeds have a lot of variety in them.
     
  2. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    If you want to knit pick you can find Dalmatians who look different from one another, however I can pick a papillon out of a crowd and the same goes for a whippet, even strange and out of standard ones. The pyr sheps I've seen (which is very limited) share a similar look, my pit bulls though varied share key characteristics. When two types of Koolies look so different it's confusing, not that one needs to appease the masses but its a reasonable notice.

    If we try hard enough every breed can be shared as "so varied you can't standardize it!" but that's rather hyperbolic.
     
  3. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    this makes sense but I previously presented this and was given a response (I believe by Avalon, I'll double check when I'm home) that no, this breed does not vary due to needs. So... Confusion as to why its varied remains.
     
  4. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I really don't see how koolies vary more than an aussie or a border collie, to be honest.
     
  5. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I can't say that I agree at this point, could you help me understand with photos?
     
  6. Oko

    Oko Silence, peasants.

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    Yeah, not really seeing how their variety of looks is any different from a lot of working breeds. Australian Shepherds, Border Collies, English Shepherds come to mind. To me, they all have a cohesive feel going on, even if I can't pinpoint it per say. None of the dogs pictured have really looked like border collies to me, really. Once again, I'm not sure why looks have to be the standard. Why couldn't it be working ability? I'm pretty sure Linds was talking about how much they varied in looks as well...

    I would share photos of border collies that don't look like border collies, but I don't want to share photos that aren't mine.
     
  7. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I would understand more if someone could tell me what Avalon and Sara/Linds/Nina Koolie share, or if none then how does one differentiate a standardized breed from a herding farm mix?
     
  8. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    So is the only key characteristic that signifies BCs vs Aussies their working style? Because I'm pretty sure there is a generalized understanding of what a border collie looks like, just like a GSD, even though they can vary greatly. I believe the sought after understanding is what is the generalized look of a koolie and if there is not one then is there any discrepancy about breeding 20lb ones and 80lb ones?
     
  9. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    They don't really look like border collies to me... though to be honest, I think what might be throwing people off is the condition of these Coolies vs Traveler/Zinga/Didgie
     
  10. Oko

    Oko Silence, peasants.

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    I know a 22 lb border collie and a 65+ lb one, if that helps you understand where I'm coming from. :)
     
  11. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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  12. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Is that okay? Lets expand, how about 15 lb and 115lbs?

    What makes a border collie, a border collie?
     
  13. Oko

    Oko Silence, peasants.

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    What makes a border collie a border collie is how they do stockwork. At least, IMO, and I find quite a large amount of people tend to agree. To each their own, obviously, and if your opinion differs that's fine with me. It is thought provoking to ponder.

    Considering that both dogs in question are great at doing their work, yeah okay. Why would it be wrong? I feel like this thread may be getting derailed from the subject matter, perhaps if the discussion about what makes a breed a breed were continued in a new thread, that'd make more sense? Then again, threads usually are quite fluid. I just don't want to hijack. :p
     
  14. Grab

    Grab Active Member

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    I know little about K/Coolies (or herding breeds in general) aside from what I've seen on here, but I think weight fluctuations are fairly common in some of the herding breeds where there is a large population of strictly working dogs, isn't it? And Aussies and Border Collies do vary quite a bit...even on this board, compare Cara to Merlin. Both Aussies. Both (I assume) correct. Quite a bit different, looks wise.

    And now I'm going back to my boring asian dogs and will just follow along this thread with reading, lol.
     
  15. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I think it's just that there wasn't really a physical 'standard' for many of these breeds during development as a purely working breed. I'm not saying looks played no role, they certainly did in pretty much any breed I can think of, it's just that there was nothing written in stone. People have preferences and you see variety in type. Some groups have gone on to try to make a standard but in the purely farm/ranch type lines and breeds you're going to see a lot more variety (which koolies sound like they are pretty purely at this point).

    I don't know why people think avalon's dogs don't look like koolies. I think they do.

    Whether they should have a standard written up is another question, imo.
     
  16. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    It's because they look different. They are not the same as Toolalla (sp?) koolies, so it's not what people are used to seeing.
     
  17. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    To me a standardized temperament and look is what makes a line or type of dog into a breed.

    Breeding true, producing similarity in more than one aspect.

    Otherwise you have a "type" and in that theory I could breed anything (any dog, sharing bloodlines or not" and have a border collie as long as it herds the same way, no?
     
  18. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I don't see it. Honestly, I don't.
     
  19. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    You... don't see a difference between these dogs and Trav and the girls?

    The longer hair, the different ears... that's what I'm talking about :lol-sign: Oh, and they're not merle.

    Again, I don't think they look like BCs either. But, I can see that there are differences (though again, a few could be condition issues)
     
  20. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    No, not any more than I see a difference between Steve and Blaze and Finn and Wesley. Or Cara and Hawk and Kechara and Merlin.
     
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