but wait! only pit bulls attack!

[LabBreeder]

Ok, so you didn't hear about the bites. Well, elegy found them and knew about them soooo obviously they were available. 5 were newspaper articles and the rest were on t.v. stations. If any of them happened near you (and you read the paper) you would have seen them or heard about them. Just because you didn't know about them doesn't mean other people didn't.

 

[whatszmatter]

i guess somebody missed my point entirely

 

[elegy]

labbreeder, do you remember the dog attack that sparked the sb-861 in california? i'm guessing probably not, being as you're not affected by any kind of breed-specific legislation (and yes, the law was talked down to be just mandatory spay/neuter of breeds decreed "dangerous" but it is STILL bsl).

a boy was left locked in the basement, blocked in by his mother by a shovel wedged under the door. the two intact (oversized) pit bulls had a history of aggression, and the female was in heat. the kid busted his way out of the basement and was mauled and killed by the dogs. clearly the picture of unpredictable, right? clearly the picture of a fantastic owner. a mother who locks her kid in the basement using a SHOVEL for pity's sake.

and yet, it sparked a huge outcry against pit bulls even though california had very good non-breed specific dangerous dog lesgislation in place, laws which were often held up as an example of what to do.

i posted two articles of non-pit bull breed dogs killing people. where's the outcry? where's the banning? where's the laws to outlaw great pyrenese dogs or malamutes? it's not there.

and it shouldn't be.

why's it different with pit bulls?

i have read several times of people running into problems with huskies and malamutes being rejected by homeowner's insurance policies and their owners are (rightfully) outraged. they have no idea that there have been at least 55 fatalities attributed to the two breeds and mixes. does that mean sibes and malamutes are dangerous? do you look at a husky and think "omg vicious dog?!" no. but they still kill people.

you want more? a whole listing of recent dog bites

 

[JennSLK]

Dian Whiplpe:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/Whipple.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2002/03/22/dogmaulgallery.DTL

 

[LabBreeder]

As I've said before, bad owners = bad dogs. The mother should have been put in jail for murder, intent to kill or endager her child, etc. If she hadn't locked the boy in there then there wouldn't be a problem now.

No, I don't live in California so I didn't know about you're pit ban in progress. I also didn't know about why it's in progress. That's not the point though. It's your state. If you are so worried about your breed being banned then do something about it.

I'd still like to know why you are trying to bring down other breeds. If you don't like your breed having the possibility of being banned why in the hell would you want other people and their breeds to go through the same thing. Do you want every breed that's ever bitten someone to be banned? If so, there won't be many left to choose from when you're done.

I understand that your P.O'd about pit banning but you don't have to bring down every other breed with you. Do something about your problem if you don't want it to happen. You argue on here enough, why not take it to the streets and courts as well.

 

[pup-man]

l
a boy was left locked in the basement, blocked in by his mother by a shovel wedged under the door. the two intact (oversized) pit bulls had a history of aggression, and the female was in heat. the kid busted his way out of the basement and was mauled and killed by the dogs. clearly the picture of unpredictable, right? clearly the picture of a fantastic owner. a mother who locks her kid in the basement using a SHOVEL for pity's sake.[/url]

I'd bet the farm that: even with this horrible mother, horrible dog owner, that if these 2 dogs were a poodle it wouldn't have happened.

That's the difference... that's why they are implementing BSL.

 

[JennSLK]

I'd bet the farm that: even with this horrible mother, horrible dog owner, that if these 2 dogs were a poodle it wouldn't have happened

It has NOTHING to do with breed.

If I treated Emma like that and also had two intact male beagle and treated them like sh!t too they would act the same way

 

[whatszmatter]

I'd bet the farm that: even with this horrible mother, horrible dog owner, that if these 2 dogs were a poodle it wouldn't have happened.

That's the difference... that's why they are implementing BSL.

so if you had two oversized intact poodles with a history of aggression left alone with a child that just broke out of the basement and a bitch in heat, you're trying to say that nothing could happen cause they were poodles???

Hate to break it to you but a 6 month old was killed by a laphsa that weighed only 6 pounds while his uncle went into the living room to get something and left him alone on the bed when the dog killed the infant.

 

[pup-man]

I'm not saying it's not possible... I'm saying the odds of a fatality are decreased DRAMATICALY!

The entire BSL thing sucks..., trust me, I know and understand.... But what can the GOVT do? They can't make owners responsible? They can't enfore responsibility in each homeowners prive house-hold.... so they are left with the BSL.

I understand the owners play a HUGE roll in why fatalities occur in dog bites.... and it's not breed specific... but IMO the breed does play a small role in it for the obvious reasons. The bully breeds were accountable for 73% of dog bite fatalities as of this year. You can't blame the GOVT for these staggering statistics.

When I walk my "toy" dogs around the neighboor hood and see a bully or large breed dog coming our way.... do I move across the street? Of course I do..... do I do it because of the dog? Nope.... do I do it because of the person holding the leash? HELL YEAH! It's the owners fault... that's the bottom line.

 

[pup-man]

so if you had two oversized intact poodles with a history of aggression left alone with a child that just broke out of the basement and a bitch in heat, you're trying to say that nothing could happen cause they were poodles???

If somehow we were able to re-create the moment and replaced the dogs with poodles...... would you put your money on it happening again? You wouldn't.

 

[JennSLK]

You are forgeting something very important. They are relying heavely in most cases on the public being able to tell what bree it is!

If somehow we were able to re-create the moment and replaced the dogs with poodles...... would you put your money on it happening again? You wouldn't

I would.

The entire BSL thing sucks..., trust me, I know and understand.... But what can the GOVT do? They can't make owners responsible? They can't enfore responsibility in each homeowners prive house-hold.... so they are left with the BSL.

It's been proven that BSL does NOT work

 

[Roxy's CD]

*panting with anger*

pup-man- YOU and YOUR dogs are the reason I cross the street! YOUR LITTLE DOGS GROWL AND BARK AND SNARL AT MY DOGS AND THEY LITERALLY HAVE KNOCKED ME OVER TRYING TO RUN AND HIDE BEHIND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9.5 times out of 10 in my city the little dogs are the ones that cause the trouble. QUITE LITERALLY! Is it ok that these littles dogs are aggressive? Of course it is, it's cute! *really pissed off*

I do understand that with pittbulls and rottweilers fatalities do happen more offen. What do you expect? You have a 300lb man and a 100 lb man. Which one is going to hurt you more with a baseball bat? DUH. But the point is, if these "300lbs men" (dogs, rotts, pitts) are owned by responsible people they would never get a bat to hurt anyone.... That is the point. That regardless of breed what it boils down to is the owner. Just because a Chi bites someone and didn't kill them DOES NOT MAKE IT OK! But according to the government it is.

As for your recreating the moment, if everything other than the breed was the same, yes I would most definitely put my money on the situation happening again.

 

[Roxy's CD]

Ok ok...

Senario:
Two 6 year old boys. I give one of them a needle and the other a Tech 9. Assuming of course that neither of these boys have ever been taught right and wrong. (as with dogs that aren't given basic training, socialization etc)

Which one is going to cause more damage? Is it the kids fault that his parents didn't teach him right and wrong? No, it isn't that's why the parents are respsonible for the kids actions, I believe until 12 years old? Please correct me if I'm wrong. The point is there. You can't put the blame on someone who doesn't know any better. Dogs are obviously beneath us humans. It's up to us to teach them the skills they need to know to function in our society. If they aren't taught those skills and those manners than it's the breed's fault?!?!?!?!?!?!?

This will obviously go no where. You and your toy dog are just perfect. Your dog has probably never shown any signs of aggression. Ever. It's adorable when your toy dog growls and barks and bites people, not aggressive. Hey, take a video of it, they'll probably put it on AFV, because it's acceptable.

 

[pup-man]

*panting with anger*

pup-man- YOU and YOUR dogs are the reason I cross the street! YOUR LITTLE DOGS GROWL AND BARK AND SNARL AT MY DOGS AND THEY LITERALLY HAVE KNOCKED ME OVER TRYING TO RUN AND HIDE BEHIND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live in California. It's not me or my dogs you see.

9.5 times out of 10 in my city the little dogs are the ones that cause the trouble. QUITE LITERALLY! Is it ok that these littles dogs are aggressive? Of course it is, it's cute! *really pissed off*

The chance of a fatality are slim to none. The GOVT is only interested in preventing deaths that occur in dog bite cases. Do you see them banning bumble bees because they bite or sting people. Their intentions are strictly on fatalities.

As for your recreating the moment, if everything other than the breed was the same, yes I would most definitely put my money on the situation happening again.

I'd hate for you to be my financial advisor.

 

[Melissa_W]

As I've said before, bad owners = bad dogs. The mother should have been put in jail for murder, intent to kill or endager her child, etc. If she hadn't locked the boy in there then there wouldn't be a problem now.

No, I don't live in California so I didn't know about you're pit ban in progress. I also didn't know about why it's in progress. That's not the point though. It's your state. If you are so worried about your breed being banned then do something about it.

I'd still like to know why you are trying to bring down other breeds. If you don't like your breed having the possibility of being banned why in the hell would you want other people and their breeds to go through the same thing. Do you want every breed that's ever bitten someone to be banned? If so, there won't be many left to choose from when you're done.

I understand that your P.O'd about pit banning but you don't have to bring down every other breed with you. Do something about your problem if you don't want it to happen. You argue on here enough, why not take it to the streets and courts as well.

I think you are missing the point. It's not about bringing other breeds down or banning other breeds. The point is that it's NOT ABOUT THE BREED. Any poorly bred dog with an irresponsible owner can bite. Because it's not about the breed, BSL is completely pointless. I think that's what the OP is trying to get across. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[pup-man]

This will obviously go no where. You and your toy dog are just perfect. Your dog has probably never shown any signs of aggression. Ever. It's adorable when your toy dog growls and barks and bites people, not aggressive. Hey, take a video of it, they'll probably put it on AFV, because it's acceptable.

It's sucks, but you're probably right. I guess that's life.

 

[Roxy's CD]

This is why I give up.

People like you.

People that obviously know nothing about dogs.

People like you, that have no idea the value of training and knowledge when it comes to training animals period, not just dogs.

People like you, on a dog forum, claiming you love animals but are all for BSL. WTF IS THAT?!?!

People like you that regardless of first hand experience stories or first hand experience yourself cannot admit that it's not the breed.

People like you that probably have never even been in contact with a pitt that's been socialized and trained properly.

How many pittbulls have you seen? How many of them have taken obedience classes?

I have met personally, quite a few pittbulls. Some better than others. But, not one of the pittbulls that have gone to my dog school has been aggressive. NOT ONE OF THEM. People that pay money, and are committed to training their dogs will probably not have a problem. And if they do they are quick to fix it.

some people.... clueless......

 

[pup-man]

Did I read that correctly? Then you mention this on another thread? You're her responsible owner and she shows some kind of agression towards you..... I wonder what she would do in the public when a kid comes walking along? Hmmm....

"Ah, she warns people. Like, if you go to touch her face, she'll show her teeth, maybe move away.

I don't think she would "bite" as in draw blood, but I think she would definitely place your hand in her mouth. As if to say, "I could bite you right now, so **** off and leave me alone already!"

Sometimes she gets testy with me touching her face, if she's tired and grumpy. (I usually touch her anyways) But it shows how bad she is if a complete stranger touches her"

 

[Roxy's CD]

Obviously you havne't been around many dogs.

If you had some than you would know that some dogs prefer their pack as opposed to other people. It's not UNUSUAL for a dog to not like being touched by stranger! ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID!

Yes, Roxy does not like people touching her face. Do I tell people that of course I do. DO I PAY LOTS OF MONEY FOR HER TO GO TO SCHOOL TO FIX THE PROBLEM!!! **** RIGHT I DO!

My dogs have never bit anyone. They don't growl at other dogs, they don't growl randomly at people.

Don't try to turn this around onto me as a "bad owner". I've been working with Roxy plenty to fix her issues and spending THOUSANDS of dollars.

How dare you! That was posted on a thread regarding "standing for examination". Do you even know what that is? That has nothing to do with people on the street. There is no reason that people on the street would touch my dogs muzzle or look at her teeth.

Do I think that the behaviour is acceptable? No, I don't. Do I understand that there are some dogs that just don't like being touched! Of course I do!

Yes I touch her. Does she growl. No, she'll shy her head away. Too bad, she's my dog and I'll touch her wherever I want to.

We had issues surrounding the furniture. That has been solved. I never once stated that she "growled at me for touching her" Ever. Learn how to read.

If you read that whole thread you should've seen that other people have experienced this issue with their dogs as well. It is not unusual and as a responsible owner I tell people that they CANNOT pet her. The funny thing, getting back onto topic, is that they are more than welcome to pet my PITTBULL. The topic of this thread. Yes, strange children can pet my pittbull. Strange children can hug my PITTBULL.

I admit that as a dog owner, before I got my PITTBULL I didn't know a lot of what I know now. I ADMIT IT! But as I stated before, I am LEARNING! I have spent THOUSANDS, yes THOUSANDS of dollars with a trainer to work with Roxy's issues with strangers. But as I stated before and will state again IT IS NOT UNUSUAL for a dog to dislike being touched by strangers.

Roxy does not attack people. She does not lunge at people. SHE DOES NOT LIKE BEING TOUCHED BY STRANGERS. She is wary of strangers LIKE MANY BREEDS ARE.

I am a responsible owner and I know it. I spend more time working with my dogs than you could even possibly imagine. Not that it makes me better than you, but I also spend more money on training my dogs than you could possibly fathom. I know Roxy inside and out. I know what she likes and what she dislikes. I know what is acceptable or NORMAL and what is not. Being wary of strangers is not totally unheard of. Dogs have personalities just like people.

she warns people. Like, if you go to touch her face, she'll show her teeth, maybe move away

Where does that say that she bites? If people continued after her warning, yes she would probably "bite". What kind of idiot continues to touch a dog after she has showed her teeth, got up and MOVED AWAY FROM THEM!?!?!?

Someone like you I imagine.

The difference with me, is that I admit during the first months of Roxy's life I was not a good leader, which lead to the problems that I am dealing with now. The difference is, that I AM DEALING WITH THEM IN A PROPER FASHION. Paid training. Homework.

 

[Roxy's CD]

Oh and to answer your question, Roxy loves kids. She's a big dog and I respect that so I dont' allow her to go near other kids. I avoid what could be a bad situation. Just like I don't let my kids go near strange dogs.

My nephew 5 and my niece 8 are at my house everyday. They play with Roxy and Hades everyday. They tug on their ears and pull on their tails. They even touch Roxy's face... Hmm.. I wonder why that is...

I don't know where you got the idea that Roxy attacks KIDS, but it's wrong. I've never stated that Roxy has tried to attack anyone.

For the last time, "She doesn't like to be touched, (in the face) by strangers".

Not, "She attacks strangers" Not "She bites people" Not "She eats kids"

SHE DOESN'T LIKE TO BE TOUCHED BY STRANGERS.

As stated above this is not unusual behaviour for a dog.