Broke people making more kids...

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by Fran27, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Kat09Tails

    Kat09Tails *Now with Snark*

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    6 + finches
    Location:
    Upper Left hand corner, USA
    We were church mouse poor as when I was a kid. I mean really poor... powdered milk poor. There were Christmas days where we know those gifts came from grandparents and the church. We went to school in hand me downs and sometimes gifts came from garage sales but I don't remember being judged for being poor with four kids. These days my parents are considered upper class and while we were poor they worked god **** hard for everything they wanted - including us.

    There is much about this thread that bothers me.
     
  2. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ^What, exactly? Please elaborate.
     
  3. Kat09Tails

    Kat09Tails *Now with Snark*

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    6 + finches
    Location:
    Upper Left hand corner, USA
    Because as long as basic needs and emotional support is being provided it's really no one's business if the kid get's a birthday present. Some kids don't get birthday presents at all - EVER. It doesn't mean their parents love them less or are incapable of being good parents. Babies in case no one knows this are crazy expensive and can be even crazier expensive at the drop of a hat. Twins... ugh... talk about spendy.

    I guess what bothers me is the high horse judgement of the entire thing. There was a time when we really knew what poverty truly was and it didn't involve birthday gifts not being purchased being the bar for who was having too many kids and who wasn't.
     
  4. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    :hail:
     
  5. keef

    keef New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Very well said.
     
  6. Fran27

    Fran27 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    Messages:
    10,641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I agree to an extend. I just don't understand why people keep having kids when they already can't really provide for their existing ones. It just baffles me. Sorry. I'm not judging their parenting skills at all. I just look at my kids and think of things I wouldn't be able to do if we got another kid, and I just can't imagine doing that (and we're doing fine financially).

    I can understand parents who think it's more important to give their single child a brother or sister than birthday presents... that I totally get. But when they already have 3 kids, I don't. I find it selfish. You know you're in a bad situation and you can't get your kids presents, yet you still decide to make it worse. And yes they probably can't always afford birth control either but in this case, sorry, you're careful.

    Oh and I find nothing wrong with used toys and clothes either..
     
  7. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Not getting birthday presents isn't "not providing for" their kids. Seriously.
     
  8. nancy2394

    nancy2394 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,254
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    I had 4 dogs but recently lost 3 to old age and si
    Location:
    Georgia
    I see this kind of thing at work ALL the time. It amazes me how many 20 year old girls have 5 kids, no job, and half the time no man that sticks around. They don't care, the more kids they have, the more food stamps they get and the more free hand outs they qualify for.

    I'm not saying everyone is like that.... but more often than not, they are. And then they expect you to hand them all kinds of free stuff like bottles, diapers, wipes, car seats, clothes...etc
     
  9. ACooper

    ACooper Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    27,771
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    IN
    People who are having trouble buying basics or can't buy basics on their own should not TRY to add expenses.....and a baby is a large expense.

    Basics:
    Food
    Shelter
    utilities
    Clothing
    Health Insurance
    School expenses----as in text book rental (I think my youngest son's rental was 155.00 this year) yearly supplies, and the ability to buy/pack a lunch for the child

    I feel that a car w/insurance is also pretty basic in this day......it's difficult AT BEST to get by without one, and honestly, pretty impossible for the most part.

    Do I think birthday/Christmas gifts are basics? No, though it would break my heart if I couldn't provide them for my kids........and I sure as heck wouldn't add MORE kids to the family if we were in that state. That's a personal choice I guess as long as YOU are paying your own way.
     
  10. nancy2394

    nancy2394 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,254
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    I had 4 dogs but recently lost 3 to old age and si
    Location:
    Georgia
    there are so many variables that can come into play in these kinds of situations. I try not to judge anyone because I have not walked in their shoes. They may have fallen on hard times.

    However, it's the people that brag about getting more food stamps and assistance if they pop out more kids. The ones that have expensive manicures and hair styles... the ones that have the most current smart phones and smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day. And they have the nerve to complain they can't afford formula for a baby that was conceived 9 months prior. I can't tell you how many times I see a woman come in and have her 5th or maybe 6th child and turns out she doesn't have custody of any of her other children.... but she continues to keep getting pregnant. Things like that frustrate me. I never think badly about people having multiple kids when they are able to provide the basic necessities for them :) While cable, fancy clothes, birthday presents, etc... are all nice things to have, they are not a necessity to be considered good parents. I think the relationship parents have with their children and the care they provide for them are what really matters.

    I really wish some of these young girls in this area could understand that.
     
  11. ~Jessie~

    ~Jessie~ Chihuahua Power!

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    19,665
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5 Dogs
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Home Page:
    This is exactly how I feel.
     
  12. Fran27

    Fran27 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    Messages:
    10,641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    New Jersey
    That's what I believe. Nope, birthday gifts are not basics, but don't you think that if someone can't buy their kids a present, they might have some issues feeding another child?
     
  13. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Maybe yes, maybe no. It depends on how they allocate their money, whether they budget or not, etc.
     
  14. ACooper

    ACooper Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    27,771
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    IN
    Hmmm, maybe yes maybe no depending on budgeting? I don't get it.

    If they don't 'do' gifts for whatever reason, fine. They just don't 'do' gifts and that's how it is. Every family is different.

    If they WISH they could buy their child a gift and can't, then no, you can't afford another child IMO. Budgeting? Ok....50.00 for xxx this month, 100.00 for xxx, 500.00 for xxxx........oh look, nothing left over for that gift we really wanted to buy little johnny. LETS ADD ANOTHER BABY!

    Wha?? Yep, spin the budget how you want.........don't get it.

    ETA: I budget......I budget my dern butt off, LOL We have raised 5 children, so trust that I UNDERSTAND A BUDGET. If I put X amount of dollars into the emergency house repair fund, it doesn't get taken out of that fund because we want to go out and eat. If I put X amount into the college funds, it doesn't get taken out when someone needs a birthday gift...........so yes, I understand budgeting (and sticking to it) just fine.

    Just saying, you know you have a child who's going to have a birthday or christmas the SAME TIME EVERY YEAR. If you DO gifts.......you know to budget for a gift EACH YEAR. So again, don't get the 'budget angle' thing.
     
  15. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Well I've been dirt poor enough that there was no part of the budget allocated to gifts... literally not enough money for it. And my husband and I have gone through periods of unemployment where our lives and budgets were stripped down to the bare essentials... but we're still always paid the rent/mortgage, utilities, and fed ourselves and the pets and provided vet care for them. To an outside observer our lives might not have appreciably changed, so it might have seemed weird for us to say something like "sorry, can't go out on Saturday night, we can't afford it."

    My perspective is that gifts are an extra, not a basic need or essential. After everything else is covered, then money goes into the things that are "nice" to have. There are a LOT of things one can go without and still properly provide shelter, food, clothing, and other basics for a child or pet.
     
  16. ACooper

    ACooper Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    27,771
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    IN
    I am not disagreeing with a single word you said above......not one. And believe that Kevin and I have counted PENNIES in a grocery line at one point when we were first married, and that wasn't to buy steaks.......it was for mac n cheese/beanie weenies. We couldn't even AFFORD a dog, cat, or goldfish at the time! LOL Our kids have worn used clothing, nothing wrong with it at all.....and they've been taught that as well.

    Did you guys go out and add more pets when you were stripped to bare essentials? If you did, I'd count that as unfair, selfish towards the pets you already owned who were also 'stripped to essentials' *shrugs* That's my opinion.

    The point in this thread that I agree with is this: If you CAN'T afford to 'budget' money for a gift you wish to give your child....(doesn't have to be a stinking iPad or something)....saying, there's no wiggle room to put $2 dollars a week/month (whatever) into a separate fund so they can have a gift.........how on EARTH can you be budgeting monies to give birth and support yet another life?

    THAT is the point I see clearly.
     
  17. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Minnesota
    And the point that I see is this: those $X/week/month/whatever put into a food or clothing budget may be what allows a parent to support their kids in more essential ways. And if that is how someone chooses to spend their money... so what? If someone chooses to live a lifestyle with 2 kids and no "extras" vs 1 kid who gets birthday presents, why is that a dirty sin? Kids don't NEED birthday presents.
     
  18. ACooper

    ACooper Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    27,771
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    IN
    *sigh*

    Ok, I know it costs HUNDREDS (if nothing goes wrong) along WITH insurance just to give birth. After that, the REAL expenses begin.

    If your budget is so tight that you can't squeak out even a buck or two a month in a separate fund, you really can't afford TO PLAN another baby.......period. Hope gas prices to get you to work don't go up, food cost increases, school field trips, etc etc etc

    And with that, I will bow out.

    EDIT: One more thing! LOL.....Kids absolutely do NOT need presents. You tell me how it feels for YOU to look into your child's face and tell them. And it's not going to be just one......cause you know, you have to tell that other child you budgeted for too! Not as easy as you might think until you are actually looking at your own child.

    And now I'll leave, promise! haha
     
  19. ~Jessie~

    ~Jessie~ Chihuahua Power!

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    19,665
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5 Dogs
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Home Page:
    Also, kids get sick... a LOT. Even with insurance, you're looking at copays of $20-50 just to walk through the door at a doctor's office. If you can't afford a $10 gift for a child's birthday, how on earth can you afford to a) add another kid, and b) take them to the doctor's if they get sick?

    If you're barely scraping by and only keeping your head above water, WHY would you choose to add another child? What if the cost of oil to heat your house rises next winter? What if you have a repair bill and can't scrape anything else off your living costs to cover it?

    It's not like we have an underpopulation problem and need to correct it. lol. I just don't understand why you'd add another (very expensive) human into your family if you were barely making ends meet.

    It just boggles my mind.
     
  20. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I think people who have never been dirt poor would be amazed how little essentials CAN cost. I've gone through periods where my food budget was $15 a MONTH and eaten fine or spent next to nothing on clothes or entertainment in a year's period without feeling deprived.

    It's just a peeve of mine that I'm probably defensive about because I've been there, and being poor isn't a dirty sin. I grew up comfortably middle class and being poor as an adult was an eye opener for me - I don't think most people have any idea how extravagant their lifestyles really are, even if it doesn't feel that way when you're living it.

    And this whole argument presumes no birth control failure, etc.

    Yes, a lot of people have kids who shouldn't have them... rich people AND poor people. Being poor and not being able to afford extras does not necessarily mean someone doesn't deserve kids. And unless you know the details of someone's finances, insurance, etc (which you probably don't) or you know their kids aren't being cared for, then why do you care?
     

Share This Page