Broke people making more kids...

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by Fran27, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    Who said everyone should go out and have babies if they cannot afford to feed their kids? The OP was talking about was a birthday gift, not food.

    Also, you cannot accidentally "have" a dog like can happen with a child. If a family is a loving one that would otherwise be good parents and someone accidently gets pregnant, I would much rather have my tax dollars go towards the family needing WIC or food stamps or something as opposed to the woman having an abortion. And this is coming from someone who does have bills, pays taxes, etc.

    And technically children are a right. You have a right to reproduce as you see fit as a consenting adult, and that includes bringing children into the world.
     
  2. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    LOL I hope no one here considers food a birthday present.
     
  3. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    I totally would! Especially a gourmet dinner out...lobster, steak, some fancy desert. You bet.:rofl1: But a kid? Probably not. lol.
     
  4. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    Nah, I wasnt even talking about the OP anymore, as many of the posts were not about that situation.
     
  5. eddieq

    eddieq Silence! I ban you! Staff Member

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    If I got a bag of fritos and tom sturghis pretzels for my birthday, I'd be ecstatic. And I'd eat them all and say, "none for you!" :rofl1:
     
  6. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Not that this has anything to do with the OP, but... I've told this story before (maybe not here), but I've known a handful of people on public assistance over the years, only one who had the entitlement mentality that everyone seems to think is so rampant, but only one who ever got off. She and I had many long conversations about it and from her I learned that the system is actually messed up enough to make it very difficult to get off assistance.

    In her case, she had gotten pregnant as a teenager, and although she and the father were still together and he helped support her, they didn't get married and he didn't report the money he gave her as income or her benefits would have been cut dramatically. He worked construction at the time so his work was spotty and not reliable as a sole income, not enough to actually support them and a baby. She went to a trade school, got good work, they got married and she got off assistance and has been for many years at this point. She flat out told me that she didn't think she would have ever gotten off assistance if she hadn't cheated.

    Now, she was a highly motivated, intelligent and driven person, and she hated every second she was on public assistance, but what about someone who isn't or who didn't learn good life skills from their parents? I always think about her whenever I start to have those "just squeezin' out kids for welfare" kind of feelings. Things aren't always what they look like.

    In any case, I'd rather have a safety net that catches some people who don't need it than no safety net at all.
     
  7. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

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    I like this.

    The amount of judgery and high horsery in this thread is...obnoxious. And I'm not usually the person that says that.
     
  8. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I don't see anybody saying that. And I don't think the two are comparable.

    Unless you're disabled and rely on a service dog, you don't NEED a dog. They're not human beings, and while most people love their dogs they don't consider them equal to a blood relative. They also don't have a comparable lifespan to a human being.

    Telling people they can just adopt out any oops babies is like... whoa. Okay.

    Being pregnant is really hard work. For some women, after gestating a little bean inside their bodies for nine months and going through the birth process, just, adoption isn't an option. I could never do it. Especially when you consider that children have roughly 20 years (sometimes more) of depending on you and then live decades beyond that. It's not remotely comparable to buying a pet. Not even.

    Anyway, rich people can have a catastrophe and lose their home in an instant. It's happened to a lot of people in the past few years. Poor people can graduate school and get an awesome job before their kids are even old enough for public school. Someone who has been laid off might find an awesome new job next week. Income is just such a transient thing, I don't see it as a reason to terminate a pregnancy or give up a child to adoption.

    I'm wondering how someone with children would explain adopting out their younger sibling due to finances without traumatizing them.

    And like it's been said repeatedly, just because someone is poor doesn't mean they're living on public assistance.
     
  9. Jenne

    Jenne Ball Thrower

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    I was lucky. I was 28, no children and my doctor approved me having my tubes tied. It was very easy. During my exam she asked if I wanted to continue with bc pills, my response was, "Can I get my tubes tied?"

    She said, "Sure. Why?"

    "I don't ever want to be pregnant," was my response.

    "Okay, I do surgeries on Wednesday mornings. I'll be right back with my openings."

    My insurance paid for it. You may be able to find a doctor who is willing to do the procedure if you find one who is GLBT friendly. They tend to be more open-minded IME. Also, if you go to the ESSURE website they list doctors who perform that procedure. They may be more open-minded.

    As for having children when you can't afford it... Well, in theory it's a great idea, but it's not something that should be enforced. Circumstances could change and birth control can fail. Though I do think if you are on government assistance and get pregnant you should NOT receive additional money.

    I also think after 6 months of collecting you should either show attempts to earn a living or going to school with 3.0 gpa. As long as you are enrolled in school and haven't earned a degree but are showing that you following that path you can continue to collect. Once your program ends you have another 6 months to locate a job. After that, all bets are off. Of course, this would be in an economy where there is a job market. Right now I've been unemployed for over a year and I've been job searching the entire time in multiple states.
     
  10. darkchild16

    darkchild16 We are Home.

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    24 is the earliest they will do it and I was 22. No amount of begging would make them do it.
     
  11. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    I haven't read the thread.

    I would agree that planning for and having more children while on government assistance is extremely irresponsible and selfish. I would also say that if you are on government assistance and you aren't TRYING to find a job (and aren't disabled), then you might be somewhat irresponsible in that area as well.

    Our country is supposed to PROMOTE the general welfare. Not create it.
     
  12. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    In WA you're required to enroll in the Work First program, where they help you get a job or get you back in school enrolled in a degree program or vocational retraining that is geared specifically toward a job (so no, you can't get a degree in philosophy on their time). They've also got a lifetime cap on the number of months you can receive welfare. It's pretty strict really.
     
  13. Jenne

    Jenne Ball Thrower

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    That is young though I don't see how it matters. I knew since I was 14 that I never wanted to be pregnant. But I can understand how a DR might consider it too young.
     
  14. darkchild16

    darkchild16 We are Home.

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    Basically the response I got is your too young to know for sure if your done or not and what if you divorce your husband the next man might want kids and on and on and on
     
  15. Gypsydals

    Gypsydals New Member

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    Depends on the food. LOl My birthday present from the husband every year is dinner out at MY choice of restaurant with the understanding I can get what ever I want. Granted I go to the same restaurant every year.
    But in general no food should no be considered a present.

    I agree with most on here while on assistance you should not plan for another OR adopt (yes I have seen it happen, it is currently happening with a co-worker) child. Yes accidents do happen.
     
  16. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Yea I've heard of a lot of women who got that exact attitude. Heck, when my husband had a vasectomy in his 30s we had to jump through all sorts of hoops first, including a little counseling session and each of us writing a separate, handwritten statement saying that we understood what the procedure was for and that it was permanent. WELL NO EFFING SH*T. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    Women's healthcare is such a joke in this country. I love how everything isn't based on the woman's wants, but what the insurance companies, doctors, and her husband wants. But they still charge her ridiculously for it.
     
  18. darkchild16

    darkchild16 We are Home.

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    We went through that too. And here he can get discounted services for it (they do it on a income sliding scale) but he has to drive 4-5 hours to get it done. Its beyond ridiculous. Between the 2 of us we have FOUR kids even 3 is alot when twins run in the families.

    Tell me about it. Jeremy was right there begging for it with me and they turned to him and said most likely you wont be her only partner :yikes: . BUT if you knew that office it would make sense. Im sure some of the people who were around when I had Morgan remember the HELL i went through with them.
     
  19. StephyMei1112

    StephyMei1112 Blackout

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    *From Parents Canada page on Tubal Ligation & Vasectomies:

    "For the most part, women don’t have any difficulty getting the go-ahead for sterilization, but in rare cases, women are denied by doctors. Not long ago, women were not considered suitable for sterilization unless they were over 40, had two children (one of each gender), and were married. In 2009, Tarrah Seymour, a 21-year old Toronto woman who was married with two kids, made national headlines when her obstetrician denied her the procedure – but this is the exception rather than the rule. "

    http://www.parentscanada.com/family-life/vasectomy-and-tubal-ligation

    I'm not in any hurry to get it done - but will probably go through with it eventually. I've more pressing matters on my hands at the moment and I'm not sure if my MSP will cover it/contribute anything to it.

    Tagroy,

    I just figured it's better to be honest with myself. Everyone has been/is egging me on to have kids as soon as possible - it's me that has been really pessimistic and being very critical of myself. Children don't ask to be brought into the world and they don't get to choose their surroundings or families. At the very least they should be made to feel loved, cherished, safe, comfortable with basic necessities (shelter, food, clothes, and health care), and that they always have someone they can rely upon. I couldn't provide properly for a child nor am I remotely interested in children of my own - so it's pointless to kid around with myself about it.

    Romy,

    I've seen that quite alot actually - mothers that (for a variety of reasons) decide initially that they want to give their child up early in the pregnancy/upon finding out but by the time the hold their baby in their arms...they can never let go. I've never been pregnant so obviously I couldn't say anything about the experience - no doubt it is very very arduous and alot of work but I doubt I'd enjoy it much...I doubt even more that I would change my mind about adopting the baby out after it was delivered either. But that's just me...
     
  20. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    It's definitely very individual. One of my cousins has given birth to three children. Her first was a teen pregnancy and she decided it was best to do an adoption. She never met her daughter beyond giving birth, but does get pictures every year. She looks forward to seeing them.

    She told me that the first pregnancy, the whole time she felt like she was carrying someone elses baby. And while she loved the baby, it actually made it easier to let go that time to think of her as someone elses. The second and third were planned, and she's a great mom to them. I think she would have been a great mom to the first as well, but she did what personally worked for her and her family.

    I don't think I could have given one of mine up even if I was teen pregnant. Her sister had a teen pregnancy and kept him. It was hard, but she raised him on her own and he turned out awesome. She also had two more after him and they're both great kids.
     

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