You make me sick.... (Designer Breeders)

[Abstrax]

So I found this add in the paper yesterday..

"Golden Doodle pups, males & females, ready 3/19, $1,000, PD246, ID #103034, 376-3734 www.zehrgoldens.com"

These people make me sick. So I sent them an email.

"You make me sick selling mutts for $1,000. There are enough mutts in shelters without more being purposely bred. You should be ashamed of yourselves. 5 millions animals are put down by pounds every year and here you are contributing to an already out of hand problem. I hope no one is stupid enough to buy your mutts when they can get one from the shelter for $150 thats spayed/neutered and up to date on shots with a clean bill of health.

Sincerely,
Disappointed and Disgusted."

And they write me back which makes me even more sick....

"Melissa,

You sound like someone I might be able to make friends with -- someone with conviction and desire to make the world a better place. You certainly have a right to your own opinion. You might also be interested in knowing a bit about our thinking and why we do what we do.

To start with, these puppies are not the result of a neighborhood accident. They are called "designer" breeds rather than mutts because they are bred deliberately for the desirable traits that result. Most likely Goldendoodles will become a standardized breed since they are becoming popular for their outstanding traits as a family pet. They originated in Australia as a result of international breeding for an assistance dog. The high level of resulting success has caught on. One of our great satisfactions is supplying a marvelous pet to families with allergies who cannot handle the reactions from dogs with dander and shedding hair. Some of our puppies are purchased with the additional intent to train them as therapy dogs for nursing homes or work with children or adults. They are carefully bred with high quality registered Golden Retrievers and Standard Poodles. One of the problems with dogs from the pound is that sadly enough some have been mistreated and as a result are too unpredictable to be safe around children. Some of the people who purchase our puppies have first tried a pound dog. And in some cases they make that choice and that's okay. But if they need a carefully bred dog to fit their family there are always designer breeds. Take care.

Milton J. Zehr"

So I reply... ~_~;

"List of Hypoallergenic dog breeds

* Airedale Terrier
* American Hairless Terrier
* Barbet (dog)
* Basenji
* Bedlington Terrier
* Bergamasco
* Bichon Frisé
* Bolognese
* Border Terrier
* Bouvier des Flandres
* Cairn Terrier
* Chacy Ranior
* Chinese Crested
* Coton De Tulear
* Dandie Dinmont Terrier
* Fox Terrier (Wire)
* Greyhound
* Havanese
* Hungarian Vizsla
* Irish Water Spaniel
* Italian Greyhound
* Kerry Blue Terrier
* Lagotto Romagnolo
* Maltese
* Miniature Poodle
* Miniature Schnauzer
* Peruvian Inca Orchid
* Portuguese Water Dog
* Puli
* Samoyed (dog) [1]
* Scottish Terrier
* Shih Tzu
* Silky Terrier
* Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier
* Spanish Water Dog
* Standard Poodle
* Standard Schnauzer
* Tibetan Terrier
* Toy Poodle
* Welsh Terrier
* West Highland White Terrier
* Wirehaired Dachshund
* Yorkshire Terrier
* Xoloitzcuintle

There is no reason to use that your breeding for a good pet quality dog that is Hypoallergenic when there is a large enough list of responsibly bred dogs that have been bred for years towards this purpose already. You can't just breed two separate breeds together and call them a new "Designer Breed". A Golden Retriever x a Standard Poodle will always be a Mutt. You can add the fancy "Desginer Breed" name to it all you want it still doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of those mutts available in shelters without more being bred - and they dont cost $1,000!!

Hypoallergenic dog breeds, are those breeds that are considered the most suitable for those who suffer from allergies. Though they do produce dander, the amount is so small that very few people experience allergy symptoms when in contact with these breeds.However, no dog is completely 100% hypoallergenic. With the recent trend in poodle mixes (goldendoodle, labordoodle ect.) It is best to purchase a second or third generation puppy. Often puppies produced from the first generation lack the characteristics of a poodle, which make them less ideal for allergy suffering owners.

If you were even remotely serious in helping this become a real breed you would have imported from Australia. Where there have been generations and generations of these mutts being bred. They would be closer to being considered maybe 30 years from now a breed. What you are doing is creating mutts and selling them under false pretenses that they are a breed and hypoallergenic at this point when realistically there is no guarantee that any of your pups are unless you bred your Standard Poodle to a Standard Poodle. Personally I don't see a problem to ruin two perfectly good breeds for a reason that has already been bred for and into many other wonderful breeds that are available out there for pets.

You can't classify all dogs from shelters unpredictable and mistreated. Most shelters perform very strict temperment testing to be able to classify if this dog is able to be adopted and what type of families it should be considered for. And not every dog that walks in there was ever abused. Most are Unwanted mothers that are pregnant and their owners don't want to deal with the litters, older dogs, people who bought a breed that wasn't suitable for their personality or life style, a dog thats been abandoned and found on the streets ect. Not all come from abuse cases!

The only "Carefully bred" part that is true to what you say is you "Carefully" bred your Golden Retriever and your Poodle to make mutts and sell them at an outrageous price to convince people that your mutts are a breed and hypoallergenic when they are truly in fact not. That is sad and outrageous to have took mans best friend and used them to manipulate people so you can make money on a dog that is available in many shelters who is just as wonderful and needs a family to love them too.

- Melissa"

I am disgusted to say the least... They assume that just because their dogs are AKC registered that they are quality bred dogs. And they do OFAs? HAH. I'd really like to see proof of that. What about other health testing for problems that are apparent in both breeds? *Grumbles and shakes head*

- Abstrax

 

[mrose_s]

some people won't get it.

On ebay there is a spoodle for stud I sent off a little message

 

[Paige]

I find sending people e-mails like that do you no good. If they don't get it with politeness they will never get it. You are honestly wasting your energy. Educate the willing so designer breeds with be frowned upon and in turn stopped due to a lack of market.

 

[ihartgonzo]

I admire you for saying something to them about what they're doing... I honestly consider it a CRIME. Even though since, in their words, they have produced "countless Goldendoodle puppies", and I'm sure all of that money will keep them going. D:<

There were no "Zehr" Golden Retrievers in the OFA database. It is also a bad sign that they use the spelling: "hip dysphasia". Ugh.

 

[Abstrax]

I find sending people e-mails like that do you no good. If they don't get it with politeness they will never get it. You are honestly wasting your energy. Educate the willing so designer breeds with be frowned upon and in turn stopped due to a lack of market.

No I am not wasting my energy, why should we should just be selective as whom to educate - everyone needs to be told that is involved. And why should I be polite when they are malicious enough to rip people off to buy one of their Mutts?

At least if they don't listen I know I tried and gave them correct information on what they are doing. No matter how brutally honest the facts or my opinion was. I won't be one of those cheek turners.

- Abstrax

 

[smkie]

I seriously doubt your going to do any good...it is their business they have set their life earnings on and aren't going to stop because you disagree. Even if it isn't crosses or mixes inproper breeding brings nothing but misery. My brother and his daughter paid a great deal for three cocker spaniels. ONe just died because of a genetic problem and now they have found another has the same problem. All that money and love turned into heartbreak .THey would have been far better off with a shelter mutt.

 

[Abstrax]

As I said before regardless if I can't change their minds at least I've tried. I will still keep trying - and if in my whole life I am only able to change one persons mind or none at all. I know I tried and didn't just sit back and watch.

 

[Whisper]

I have to agree with Paige. Yes, it's good to talk to people about these things and try to educate them, but being "aggressive" enough to put them on the defense isn't going to help. I know from experience.

 

[Dekka]

You know I have nothing against people breeding goldendoodles, or other designer breeds. If they are doing it ethically. Many breeds that we chaz members have, are not that old. I am glad someone made the JRT and the whippet.

If they are not breeding F1 generations, do health testing and have s/n contracts, and a must return policy, I have no issues what so ever. Who said all the breeds we have today are all the breeds that shall ever be?

 

[smkie]

I think you would be better off educating the public at large. I know very few people that have set up their business in an indiscriminate breeding process that are suddenly going to grow a heart. FOr them it is all about the money. WRiting your local paper, even the little papers about the pitfalls that come with these puppies might stop a customer or two even then there are those that will go ahead. WE had a puppy miller that was selling puppies on the corner near my home. I went up with a HUGE sign and held it over my head to the streets saying DO NOT SUPPORT PUPPY MILLS>>>>>> i told that horrid woman that had those puppies in the direct sun that i would stay as long as she did, i was on the sidewalk and fully within my rights. Betting that she didnt' have a permit so she coudlnt' do a thing about it. WHen people came up i gave them every bit of info i could think of why they should not buy a puppy. ONe grandmother and her little red headed grandaughter told me they believed in free speech, but purchased anyway. I told that horrid woman that i would be there anytime i saw her, and she hasn't been back. NOw we have byb that are selling chi mixes for a hundred dollars. If it is the same one and i am betting it is, that dog is having litter after litter so where i see her signs, i make one to go right next to it...I could tell the puppymiller why she shouldn't be a puppy miller but i don't think it would stop her a bit., Instead i try for the public.

 

[Dekka]

I loved that you did the Smike!!

 

[smkie]

i was so hoping someone would join me, i passed her and thought omg and went home (it was only a block away) the only paper i had was too small but i had a canvas still in the plastic so i wrote in big black letters with a perm marker. Took some water and went back. IT was hot and i thought she would never bail. About a dozen cars came up while i was there...i was wishing i had printed literature in the trunk and swore i would make some but i haven't yet, prolly should before spring and the return of them. SHe had a laminated sign that stretched from one end of her car to the other with the word puppies in red. I dont' remember how many she had, but it was quite a few of several different breeds. I felt bad for the puppies, that should have been in the shade where SHE WAS but it was the only thing i could think to do. MAke her leave, and educate anyone within earshot.I know if grammy was around she would have joined me. ONe big black car with two thuggy looking guys stopped but when they found out the pups weren't for free they left. Not hard to guess what they wanted them for. THose puppies were not fat and lusterous, not ribby but not right...and around 6 weeks.

Maybe someone here might want to make a list of WHY a person should not purchase designer dogs or puppymills "purebred" then we can all print it out and have it ready. YOu can't hand it out in the stores or the parking lots, but the sidewalks and streets are right to speech territory. I havne't gotten to it yet...on my list of things i need to do

 

[Abstrax]

i was so hoping someone would join me, i passed her and thought omg and went home (it was only a block away) the only paper i had was too small but i had a canvas still in the plastic so i wrote in big black letters with a perm marker. Took some water and went back. IT was hot and i thought she would never bail. About a dozen cars came up while i was there...i was wishing i had printed literature in the trunk and swore i would make some but i haven't yet, prolly should before spring and the return of them. SHe had a laminated sign that stretched from one end of her car to the other with the word puppies in red. I dont' remember how many she had, but it was quite a few of several different breeds. I felt bad for the puppies, that should have been in the shade where SHE WAS but it was the only thing i could think to do. MAke her leave, and educate anyone within earshot.I know if grammy was around she would have joined me. ONe big black car with two thuggy looking guys stopped but when they found out the pups weren't for free they left. Not hard to guess what they wanted them for. THose puppies were not fat and lusterous, not ribby but not right...and around 6 weeks.

Maybe someone here might want to make a list of WHY a person should not purchase designer dogs or puppymills "purebred" then we can all print it out and have it ready. YOu can't hand it out in the stores or the parking lots, but the sidewalks and streets are right to speech territory. I havne't gotten to it yet...on my list of things i need to do

Brilliant Idea Luff! We could even submit them to our local papers and news sites and help that way. Glad you mentioned these things that you are doing. I too think it will be a more affective way. Thank you again for telling me what you have done. My energy would be better spend doing ideas like this.

- Abstrax

 

[Saintgirl]

Yes, educating the public is a great way to start, but I don't believe it should end with the public- often the so called breeders are unaware of their own practises and the ethics involved with responsible breeding. Unfortunatley many people will think that they have great dogs and they should breed them. They do not realize the efforts and commitments that ethical breeders make. Often BYB's do not even realize that they themselves are BYB's, because they are under the illusion that BYB's mistreat their dogs and do not love them. We all know here that this is not the case. I know of several instances where owners were going to breed their dogs becuse they thought that it would be a good way to make a couple of extra bucks and they thought that their dogs were great pets and people would be lucky to have a puppy from their dogs. When they were educated on what it takes to breed and all of the genetic issues involved with properly breeding they realized that they didn't have what it takes to do this. A little education led to them educating themselves further. And the end result was one less BYB---and in my books this is a GREAT thing!!!

Education has to be shared with all of the dog lovers, buyers AND breeders. Yes, many of these so called breeders will be hard to reach and educate because they will take it as a personal attack, however when approached diplomatically sometimes results can be seen.

A so called breeder of Saint Bernards had an ad on craigslist for her litter of Saint puppies. I contacted her and over several months of correspondance she no longer breeds. She will again in the future, however she is taking the time to find a mentor, and has dedicated her time to the local Saint rescue in her area. She was unaware of the responsibility of ethical breeding.

 

[smkie]

Rock on! I am stuck in a major puppymill state. I hate them with all my heart. I may not be able to shut them down but i can sure as heck keep them off my corner. That woman was just vile and i imagine she is just par for the course. ANyone that makes their livelyhood that way should be tarred, feathered and run off. Since we can't do that, this is the only other recourse i can see to make a difference. I think the average public is just unaware of how horrid the conditions are and the breeding techniques of litter after litter. What i couldnt' believe is even after telling all of that, and the weakened immune system, the genetic defects..that woman STILL bought the puppy for her grandaughter. I know that child was old enough to understand what i was saying. SHe had to be around 10. Makes me wonder what she will think of dear Grandmother if the pup gets sick. SHe sure set a good example didnt' she

 

[Island dog]

No one wants to have the beliefs of others 'pushed' on them. It's no different than having someone 'push' their religion.

 

[smkie]

Writing the agricultural politician in your state...i am on some list and sign petitions that come into my e-mails so i don't know exactly what you call them, just add my words and send it through. Religion pushing is one thing, causing animals to live in inhuman conditions, with inhuman breeding practices forced on them is another. I will push, shove and fight it every chance i get. THe woman i adopted Victor from is a huge advocate and sends me info on a regular basis.

there are many sites on line that would direct you i just pulled this one up it is pretty standard for what i have seen and read http://petloverstips.com/ForTheLoveoftheDog/category/puppy-mills

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) It was a good day for dogs at the General Assembly.

Without debate, the House of Delegates passed bills on Tuesday cracking down on dogfighting and so-called puppy mills.

The dogfighting bill makes it easier for authorities to investigate people who engage in the blood sport. The measure was prompted, at least in part, by the Michael Vick dogfighting case. The suspended Atlanta Falcons star is serving 23 months for a federal dogfighting conspiracy.

The bill applies to all forms of animal fighting and makes cockfighting a felony for the first time in Virginia. The vote was 93-2.

The puppy-mill measure passed 91-6. It would regulate and license large commercial dog breeders, whose operations would be subject to inspection by animal control officials. (WJZ)
Way overdue but it’s definitely a step in the right direction.

Filed under: Animal Advocacy, Crimes Against Canines, Dog Fighting, Furbabies in Need of Help, Laws & Legislation, News & Updates, Puppy Mills

 

[Saintgirl]

Island Dog, I imagine this thread is a touchy subject for you. You have a beautiful dog in your avatar, and yes I know it is a doodle. It isn't that I am against the creation of new breeds. The Aussies have taken great pains to work on their doodle researching, planning, attempting to create a breed that would accomplish what they were searching for. They weren't creating F1 crosses to fill the newest trend. They weren't creating F1 crosses to sell for profit. As a groomer I work with many goldendoodles, labradoodles, etc, all of the F1 cross and have yet to see one that does not shed or is hypoallergenic. I am not saying they aren't out there, only that here in North America the breed seems to fulfill the backyard breeders dream of the ultimate profit, not to create a breed that has a purpose other than putting money in the breeders pocket and making a wonderful companion. The doodle craze opened the door for "HYBRID" designer dogs and the explosion of BYB's and puppymillers competing to come up with the next fad designer breed.

It isn't the doodle breed that bothers me, I want to make that very clear. It is the BYB and puppy mills that exploit uneducated buyers and saturate the market with dogs purely for profit that infuriate me. Unfortunatley the doodle cross is a favorite with these breeders.

I don't beleive that pushing one's beliefs on puppy millers and BYB's is a bad thing, and hardly one comparable with pushing a religion on another. BYB's and millers DO NOT produce puppies with the best intention for the dog. They create genetic catastrophies, contribute to the over population of shelters, provide puppies to illsuited families. Education is not cramming one's beleif, it is providing the facts, solid proven facts.

Loving your dog, and even loving your breed (designer breed aside) is no reason to turn a blind eye to the damage caused by BYB's and millers. If it were me so passionate about the doodles it would make me more passionate about the BYB's and millers breeding them.

Education is the most powerful tool in the fight against unethical breeders. If that makes me a bad person for pushing my own beliefs- than so be it!

 

[smkie]

I can't think of a breed that didnt' come from mankind's tampering. WIth some like the bulldog and its tiny hips i could just cry. STill what i protest isn't the mix it is the quantity and the living conditions. Kinda hard to go wrong with a lab cross..but frankly the shelters are stock full of them..i would rather people go there and try to remedy what has already been sinned against them and try to right a wrong. It is puppy millers i want boiled alive.I think you should have to register a litter for sale and if you have two consectutively you should have to pay a hefty fine. No dog should be have to carry litter after litter after litter. WHen i said that to the grandmother she just shrugged...it meant nothing to her.

Did you see that little dog that was so matted you couldn't even make out it's face..the person responsible for that should be as matted, mats hurt, the skin can rot underneath and i have seen maggots in the flesh that pulled away with the mat, rotten. i have seen the skin get corkscrewed up into the mat where it dies leaving a huge sore. Wire cages cause all kinds of foot damage, let alone no one to give a dang, a bit of comfort, anything that a dog thrives on. I told that puppymiller how could she do that..how could stand herself at all, she said I HAVE TO SUPPORT MY KIDS sighs.....I told her me too...and i choose not to create suffering. WE glared at each other for HOURS.

 

[Paige]

I am not the type to turn my cheek. I stand my ground on what I belief and if asked, or if given the chance to edcuate I will. Some people are never going to change though. If they won't change, move on to those who will. If the majority refuses to buy from BYB and puppymills they will go out of business.