Why get a guardian breed?

[Mordy]

A lot of people get dogs for what they think is a "kool" factor.

Yup, exactly, a lot of people are like that.

Cool, exotic, different, rare - whatever makes them stand out from "the rest". I guess they need to compensate somehow for the lack of self esteem and can't afford a Porsche or something.

We have a guy coming to a local dog park who owns a Thai Ridgeback. He is a total moron and makes up all kinds of crap about the breed when he is chatting with other dog owners, just to make himself look cool. He has no clue how to properly handle the dog though, and it's not very well trained either.

I just wonder which mail order puppymill he got the dog from.

 

[RD]

Gem, woops. I totally mis-interpreted your post. I agree that getting a dog and then trying to train the instinct out of them is silly. Some breeds were bred specifically for sociability, and some are not. I do not understand why people would a dog that is noted for its aversion to strangers, to be happy and friendly to everybody in petsmart. I want my dog to be able to handle a situation where people are around, but I would never expect it to be unconditionally tolerant of strangers and weird situations, as my Border Collie is.

As far as the demand for a "soft" temperament goes, and the breeders that compromise their breed's purpose and abilities to suit the general public.. Shame on them. I find it sad that working breeds are being turned into gentle, quiet pets because that's "what people want".

 

[Renee750il]

Anyways, comparing GSD/Dobe to a Fila is wrong, simply different leagues of protections.

True, owning both, I can attest to that, although my Shepherds have done an excellent job of protecting me when it was needed.

Besides, GSD's were never meant to be guard dogs... they are sheep dogs... as if the name didnt say it

Heheheh, Orion . . . you mean they weren't bred to herd German toddlers?

 

[filarotten]

Gempress and RD, both of you are right...and as always, I agree with Renee.
I have never understood why so many people want to take a perfect breed...many years of hard work... bred for a specific purpose and want to breed or tame the very heart and soul of the the breed. It really disturbs me. There are so many other breeds that could be chosen instead.
I will take Roxie for instance, she is from old German lines...her parents are dead and so are all of her siblings...She is the only survivor left...she is spayed so her lineage is dead. She had the hardest temperament of any dog I have ever owned, at only a few weeks old she was already protective of her family, ...I socialized the sh** out of her, but it was necessary for her protection. She still doesn't like most people, only her chosen few...and she loves them to death(that includes friends, and children) but I have never tried to make her a pussycat, (and if I want a pussy cat I will get a pussy cat)...that is not Roxie. With us she is loyal to the end. But, the sad thing, I will never own another Rottie...They have been down bred to the point they have lost the original protectiveness of the breed. That really saddens me as I really, really love this dog. But, I know finding another Roxie would be a chance in a million.

 

[dobesRbest]

Well said! I have dobes because I want a great dog that will protect me/my family/my property if it calls for it. ALL dogs need proper socialization and training. If your guardian dog attacks just because it wants to, then sorry but that is not aproper guardian.
I do agree you can't make you dog what its not, but proper training and socialization is not ruining the dog.

I agree with you about wanting to get a dog and make it something completely different.

However I do not agree with your implication that socializing and training destroys the instinct of a guardian breed. I think it is important to consider the fact that all dogs, regardless of breed, need to be socialized and taught when it is appropriate to do certain things. A 180lb Fila that indiscriminately attacks everybody that comes close because it was never socialized or trained to accept normal situations is just unsafe. Do you consider a dog that does not attack indiscriminately to be an inferior guardian?

I want a guardian for a reason, and if I didn't want those characteristics I would get a different breed. These dogs were bred to have good judgment and be able to put it to use. But without training and socializing, a guardian breed will most likely think that it's appropriate to attack anyone simply for existing, and the owner will have no control over the dog when it decides to do so. Disaster!

Honestly, that is like saying it's fine to get a Border Collie and letting it herd everything in sight, but teaching it that it can only herd the sheep and that theres no need to herd your children is destroying its instinct. What good is a working dog if it's allowed to run rampant?

While it is ridiculous to get a Fila and expect to be able to train it to like strangers, or to get a BC and train it to be a couch potatoe, it's equally ridiculous to me to NEVER take control and teach a dog how to act in certain situations because it might be "messing with its instincts".

Can I ask why you feel that way, Gem? Have you ever seen an adult Fila (since we are using them as an example, lol) that was poorly socialized? I've seen the result of never teaching a dog like that how to tell the difference between a threat and a normal, everyday situation. It usually ends in the beloved, devoted guardian being euthanized because it was just trying to do its job, but had no idea of the difference between a relative shaking hands with its handler and an intruder putting a gun to its handler's head. I'll stick with socialization and training, thanks.

 

[Dobiegurl]

People do pick breeds just for the "in" factor. Thats what happened to St.Bernards, Huskies, and dalmations due to movies and Rotts and Pitts due to the "hype" factor. No one takes in account the dogs natural insticts and that is how these breeds become so popular in the shelter. I chose the Doberman because they are medium-large size, short hair, and have alot of energy and can keep up with me on my daily basis. I wasn't ready for a overly agressive,huge, protector dog such as the Fila or Corso even though that is what I really wanted but looking into the breed standard I realized that the Doberman fitted my lifestyle more than those breeds and easier to handle, seeing that Chico is MY first dog. In a couple of years I will probably get a Fila or Corso.

 

[bubbatd]

Sigh !!! Again I'll state that my Golden is my " guard dog " ... no he won't bite but his size scares people. My Goldens have been happy living on 8 acres or a small home. I still am happy to have a 99% friendly velco who may need the 1% " attack" mode, than one who is 99% attack and 1 % friendly.

 

[oriondw]

Sigh !!! Again I'll state that my Golden is my " guard dog " ... no he won't bite but his size scares people. My Goldens have been happy living on 8 acres or a small home. I still am happy to have a 99% friendly velco who may need the 1% " attack" mode, than one who is 99% attack and 1 % friendly.

LOL


Good joke

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

LOL


Good joke

oriondw, there is no need to be rude. Just because bubbatd owns a golden doesn't mean her dog wouldn't protect her if needed. I have a lab. Whether she would bite or not, I don't know. But I do know she would block the attacker's path. She has done this before with people she does not feel comfortable with. And most all backed off because she's large and VERY sturdy. I don't need to worry about her biting or not biting, because I've got two other dogs who would definitely attack and tear flesh if they needed to.

 

[dirtmcgirt]

Yup, exactly, a lot of people are like that.

Cool, exotic, different, rare - whatever makes them stand out from "the rest". I guess they need to compensate somehow for the lack of self esteem and can't afford a Porsche or something.

We have a guy coming to a local dog park who owns a Thai Ridgeback. He is a total moron and makes up all kinds of crap about the breed when he is chatting with other dog owners, just to make himself look cool. He has no clue how to properly handle the dog though, and it's not very well trained either.

I had the same experience when I took Demi to the Vet a few weeks back..
A teenage girl followed me out to my car and asked me what kind of dog she was.. I told her that she was a Corso and she said " Yeah I thought so, my boyfriend just bought one."

So we started chatting about dogs in general, and I asked her if he had ever had experience with large dominating breeds? She said yeah, that he had a Lab , but wanted a dog that looked cool and could take down a Pit. And that he was planning on breeding him soon.

I was so mad at that point that I didn't know what to say.. I said, have a good day.. and left.

 

[bubbatd]

Glad I gave you a laugh, Orion ............ you needed to lighten up.

 

[RD]

Sigh !!! Again I'll state that my Golden is my " guard dog " ... no he won't bite but his size scares people. My Goldens have been happy living on 8 acres or a small home. I still am happy to have a 99% friendly velco who may need the 1% " attack" mode, than one who is 99% attack and 1 % friendly.

That is all that most people need. I felt secure walking around at night with my senior Labrador mix because he was large and most people didn't know anything about dogs and didn't want to mess with him. Would he have protected me? Uh... in all honesty, probably not. But not everybody needs a guard dog! I am very proud of the fact that my Border Collie will be friendly and polite to people in any situation, he is a well-adjusted joy to be around...but more or less useless as a protection dog. He has already shown that he will stick up for me if necessary, but his ego is bigger than his body and I don't know many people who are going to be scared by my 40lb dog going after them.

 

[BlackDog]

I think there is a difference between training the breed to be a "non-dangerous" k9 citizen and letting the dog do whatever because it was bred to be that way.

I suspect that when most people on here say "the gaurding breeds need alot of socialization and traing" they don't mean "let's take out the gaurd from gaurd dog" Times are different now then it was when these dogs were originally developed. If you had a guard dog that killed your next door neighbors dog you's say opps. I'll just give them anyone dog. If that same thing happened today your neighbor would cry "LAW SUITE!!!" When people say to train the guard dog they don't usually mean, to make it not into a gaurd dog anymore. As a guard dog owner it is their responsibility to make their dog is a good k9 citizen while also having it's gaurd dog edge. In other words, traing classes are there to make the dog into a gaurd dog who evalutes the situation to best of its ability before it attacks, rather than a dog who simply attacks with little to no warning.

This is how pit bulls got their bad reputations. If people would stop fighting them, stop not training them, breed responsibly, and not get a pit bull for the soul purpose of them being "A bad ass dog" then were would be not more dog attacks and no more breed banning,

 

[BigDog2191]

My answer is because you want a well-behaved dog that can determine what's acceptable and what is not.

A real LGD would not let anyone or anything near it's herd but because of socialization, it will respond to the owner if they say 'friend' or they tell them not to bark, etc.

I actually kind of think it's dumb to not socialize for example just so that it can keep all of it's traits. I mean, then why have dogs? Why not leave them as wolves the way they were?

 

[BlackDog]

My answer is because you want a well-behaved dog that can determine what's acceptable and what is not.

A real LGD would not let anyone or anything near it's herd but because of socialization, it will respond to the owner if they say 'friend' or they tell them not to bark, etc.

I actually kind of think it's dumb to not socialize for example just so that it can keep all of it's traits. I mean, then why have dogs? Why not leave them as wolves the way they were?

Well than let me revaluate, the training/socialization is suppose to be there for either the dog to become the thinking/the owner/or both, depending on what breed of dog we are talking about here. The point is, someone needs to be doing the thinking about the situation, otherwise someone could get injured when if could have been prevented.

 

[Gempress]

Since it looks like some of you missed my earlier post, I'll repeat it.

I'm certainly not against socialization or training. Quite the contrary; those are extremely important to any breed of dog. I'm saying that it's wrong to expect those things to diminish guarding instinct. Refine it and make it less indiscriminate, yes. But not eliminate it.

I apologize for not being clearer in my original post.

 

[BlackDog]

Since it looks like some of you missed my earlier post, I'll repeat it.



I apologize for not being clearer in my original post.

No Gempress, my apologies!

 

[bubbatd]

Grammy loves hand shakes !!!

 

[filarotten]

I believe in socialization, and training...but I was reading something interesting the other day on the Fila forum...They were discussing whether you can over train a Fila to the point of confusing the natural protective instinct versus complete obedience. I thought it was very interesting... I have often wondered about the wonderful well-behaved family pet that suddenly snaps and goes hay-wire and starts mauling.

IMO many owners forget these dogs, which are canines, they are predators. In the wild they would survive on pure driven instinct... heck, many survive on the streets by nothing but instinct.(sad, but true) Dogs have a predator drive instilled in them to survive. All dogs do...they are animals. No matter how much we see our dog as our baby they are still animals.
However some have more instinct bred into them as far a protectiveness or a higher prey drive.

I think when a dog is over trained, as to being a pussycat instead of a dog, one day the dog could possibly snap. It is going against nature, no matter how much nurture you have given, You are still going against nature.

Dogs are not humans, they are animals. Too many people are not realizing this...no one takes a cat and trys to change it, why do we have to change our dogs? Why can't we work with nature and nurture together as a whole? Wouldn't we be happier and our dogs?
I am so tired of society telling me if my dog growls, it is being aggressive, no it's not, it is being a dog... and displaying a dislike for something or someone. A warning!!!
My dog can growl and show dislike, I don't care...I don't like everyone and everything my self. But, respect and knowing your dogs body language is the key to owning a dog. You give your dog respect and it will in turn give you the respect not attack that stranger that came over for coffee.
I respect Roxie and Bruties judgement, I always have and I always will...and I will let them voice their opinion...but, when it comes down to it, out of respect they are not going to attack that new person.

 

[Dobiegurl]

What is an LGD?