Why get a guardian breed?

[RD]

What is an LGD?

Livestock guardian dog.

Filarotten, interesting and very valid point about not allowing a dog to be a dog. I would imagine that dogs forced to be pussycats and couch potatoes all their lives, and having their instincts shoved aside, would absolutely cause them to "snap".
Really, though, if you get a dog and have to train it and socialize it to the point of turning into a Golden Retriever in order to have it be acceptable, why not just get a Golden Retriever? That's Gem's entire point, I think, and I absolutely agree with her.

 

[bubbatd]

I agree !!! That's why I've owned Goldens for almost 60 years..I love and admire other breeds, but I know what to look into for a good Golden. When Chip is gone, I have no idea who will be my " velco " dog..... at our ages, who will go first? Will be interesting for EliN to post !

 

[IliamnasQuest]

So, to take this thread a step further ..

Why do people get breeds specifically bred for certain traits and then not work their dogs in those traits? If you have a guardian dog, are you not somewhat obligated to put it into a situation where it is working as a guardian dog? Is it fair to take one home as a house pet, if you are so intent on keeping those instincts? Sitting around a house guarding is not really working the instincts of a guardian breed.

Just being a devil's advocate here. I think most people sit in the middle on this - they get a breed for specific instincts they like, but then they don't make any true effort to truly work with those traits.

What I don't like is someone excusing their dog's actions because "that's what they were bred for!" Any dog that is allowed to interact with other people and other dogs must be taught to understand what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. A dog can be protective and yet be a trustworthy member of society. If it isn't trustworthy, then it shouldn't be around other people. Ever.

The truth of the matter is that most dogs are not needed to do the work they were originally bred for. So it stands to reason that some of those traits will fade. Unless people are willing to continue the working aspect of each breed, there's just no reason for the traits to continue.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

So, to take this thread a step further ..

Why do people get breeds specifically bred for certain traits and then not work their dogs in those traits? If you have a guardian dog, are you not somewhat obligated to put it into a situation where it is working as a guardian dog? Is it fair to take one home as a house pet, if you are so intent on keeping those instincts? Sitting around a house guarding is not really working the instincts of a guardian breed.

Just being a devil's advocate here. I think most people sit in the middle on this - they get a breed for specific instincts they like, but then they don't make any true effort to truly work with those traits.

What I don't like is someone excusing their dog's actions because "that's what they were bred for!" Any dog that is allowed to interact with other people and other dogs must be taught to understand what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. A dog can be protective and yet be a trustworthy member of society. If it isn't trustworthy, then it shouldn't be around other people. Ever.

The truth of the matter is that most dogs are not needed to do the work they were originally bred for. So it stands to reason that some of those traits will fade. Unless people are willing to continue the working aspect of each breed, there's just no reason for the traits to continue.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

I have a border collie/shepherd mix (looks mainly border). She's not involved in herding. She doesn't do agility. Why? Because right now I can't find a trainer for herding (if I do, and find she likes it, I would definitely get her into herding). She doesn't really like agility very much. There are times when she's really hyper and seems to like it, others where she looks at me like "This is boring - jump, jump, jump. I get it. Let's do something else". She gets lots of exercise and training each day to keep her busy. Right now I'm working on her dog aggression and am also training her to try and get her CGC to get her into therapy work. I don't think she's a bad dog for not liking agility and not doing herding. She's an extremely smart animal and learns very quickly. But what is for some dogs isn't for all.

 

[filarotten]

Livestock guardian dog.

Filarotten, interesting and very valid point about not allowing a dog to be a dog. I would imagine that dogs forced to be pussycats and couch potatoes all their lives, and having their instincts shoved aside, would absolutely cause them to "snap".
Really, though, if you get a dog and have to train it and socialize it to the point of turning into a Golden Retriever in order to have it be acceptable, why not just get a Golden Retriever? That's Gem's entire point, I think, and I absolutely agree with her.

I totally agree with that. I wonder why myself? Why do so many kennel clubs, breeders and society feel it is necessary to down breed a dog? Why can't the original standards stay in place? The original breeders had a plan, a very smart researched plan, they bred until they reached perfection...Why does perfection have do be downgraded?
What really gets me...we have the internet... you can find out, and research every breed on the face of this planet...so, why don't people use it to get the correct breed for their lifestyle? Why are people so ignorant and insecure that they think they need a dog for a macho image or they think they can tame the breed?

Dogs are not the problem...humans are!!!

 

[bubbatd]

I have always given my Goldens as many options as possible to " retrieve " ...plus to bring out their love for people and children. It look 2 years for my neigbor to realize when he went out on his walker with a baseball bat to get his mail that Chip wasn't going to attack him. All Chip wanted to do was carry in the psper or the mail and get his reward !

 

[BlackDog]

So, to take this thread a step further ..

Why do people get breeds specifically bred for certain traits and then not work their dogs in those traits? If you have a guardian dog, are you not somewhat obligated to put it into a situation where it is working as a guardian dog? Is it fair to take one home as a house pet, if you are so intent on keeping those instincts? Sitting around a house guarding is not really working the instincts of a guardian breed.

Just being a devil's advocate here. I think most people sit in the middle on this - they get a breed for specific instincts they like, but then they don't make any true effort to truly work with those traits.

What I don't like is someone excusing their dog's actions because "that's what they were bred for!" Any dog that is allowed to interact with other people and other dogs must be taught to understand what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. A dog can be protective and yet be a trustworthy member of society. If it isn't trustworthy, then it shouldn't be around other people. Ever.

The truth of the matter is that most dogs are not needed to do the work they were originally bred for. So it stands to reason that some of those traits will fade. Unless people are willing to continue the working aspect of each breed, there's just no reason for the traits to continue.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

I think the average family with 2.5 kids doesn't want a working breed. Just the AVERAGE family. They already have kids, their jobs,to worry about, most of them don't want to come to a dog that needs hours of exercise and mental stimulation everyday. They just want a dog that is good with kids, other dogs (so they don't end up with a law suit), and needs moderate exercise. I'm by no means promoting that the dog be put on the bottom shelf, but for most people they don't want most of the purebreds that are there. Those dogs helped make mans work lighter many many years ago and they had to be full of energy. Today families are both at work, where the dog can't come (most of the time) and so they suffer. Why because get those breeds that don't fit into their life style is because of lack of research, impulse buying, and the media, with their movies featuring specific breeds.

 

[Amstaffer]

I only have time for a quick post....IMHO I don't think we should encourage aggression (To attack other dogs or humans) of any sort from dogs(I don't mean herding type aggression). I think it is the humans job to protect the dog not the other way around. To train or breed for aggression is just asking for trouble IMHO.

 

[oriondw]

I only have time for a quick post....IMHO I don't think we should encourage aggression (To attack other dogs or humans) of any sort from dogs(I don't mean herding type aggression). I think it is the humans job to protect the dog not the other way around. To train or breed for aggression is just asking for trouble IMHO.

Its good that people like you dont rule the world

 

[Renee750il]

The truth of the matter is that most dogs are not needed to do the work they were originally bred for. So it stands to reason that some of those traits will fade. Unless people are willing to continue the working aspect of each breed, there's just no reason for the traits to continue.

The fallacy here is that most LGD breeds tend to be blindingly intelligent and are well able to channel their drives into alternative activities. There's no reason for these abilities and capabilities to fade except through poor breeding practices, and poor breeding practices will unfailingly bring problems.

 

[Renee750il]

I only have time for a quick post....IMHO I don't think we should encourage aggression (To attack other dogs or humans) of any sort from dogs(I don't mean herding type aggression). I think it is the humans job to protect the dog not the other way around. To train or breed for aggression is just asking for trouble IMHO.

The misconception is that guardian breeds are aggressive. That couldn't be more wrong. They are, however defensive. The danger comes when the wrong people subvert those defensive behaviours into aggression.

 

[Amstaffer]

I guess what it boils down to me is that when dogs are bred or trained to have any aggression towards people it usually ends up going sadly wrong for both dogs and humans.

 

[oriondw]

I guess what it boils down to me is that when dogs are bred or trained to have any aggression towards people it usually ends up going sadly wrong for both dogs and humans.

Now that really depends on people...

I say lets start neutering stupid people

 

[filarotten]

Now that really depends on people...

I say lets start neutering stupid people

:

 

[RD]

Now that really depends on people...

I say lets start neutering stupid people

My sentiments exactly!

 

[princess_poppy]

i agree if your going to get a dog you have to fit that dog not make the dog fit you, after all those years of breeding those dogs to be like that is the way those dogs love to be. if the dog is made to be different then it won't be as happy as it could!

 

[IliamnasQuest]

I want the job of picking out the stupid people ....



Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

*disclaimer* This was not meant as an attack on anyone. I also do NOT intend for this thread to be a flame war. I'm just curious, and want some intelligent feedback.

There have been a lot of posts lately about guardian breeds. I've noticed that a common theme seems to be a desire to curb the breed's natural protective tendencies through extensive training/socialization.

That disturbs me greatly. Guardian breeds were bred to be that way for a reason. There are people out there who greatly desire these traits, and I believe they should be nurtured. These traits are written into the breed standard for a reason. The ideal breed specimen SHOULD have this type of temperament. The changing and lessening of temperament traits is just as bad for the breed integrity as the changing and lessening of physical traits.

I can't remember where I saw this quote from a dobie breeder, but it's very fitting. "If you have a doberman who sleep all day, loves everyone and never barks, then you have a great pet. But you have a bad doberman."

I don't believe in getting a dog with the condition of "I don't like XXX trait, so I will train it not to be that way." That is not fair to the dog. They are wired to be that way, and they are happiest when fulfilling their purpose. If you want a dog, you should like the ENTIRE dog. That is why there are hundreds of different breeds to choose from.

Besides, what if you can't train Fido to "not be that way"? What do you then? Shelters are full of dogs that could not be trained out of their natural tendencies: BCs who are "too active", terriers who dig and scenthounds who howl and bark. It's not considered responsible dog ownership to get a dog not suited to your situation. So why is it acceptable to get a hard guardian breed and try to train it to "play nice" with everyone?

Thoughts, anyone?

My dogs are well socialized and trained to "play nice" with friendly people when I am present.

They are ENCOURAGED to be territorial and guard my van, my yard and my home. They are ENCOURAGED to stand up to a threat, and taught how to properly fight an aggressor, while at the same time being well schooled in the "out" command, and the recall.

I do not want a black and tan Golden Retriever, and I think you are absolutely correct when you say that breeding dogs this way, and/or trying to "train" their instincts away is not good for the breed.

 

[Renee750il]

They are ENCOURAGED to be territorial and guard my van, my yard and my home. They are ENCOURAGED to stand up to a threat, and taught how to properly fight an aggressor, while at the same time being well schooled in the "out" command, and the recall.

EXACTLY! Defensive behaviour, not aggressive!