What say you?
- Thread starter youhavenoidea
- Start date
"Hypotetically" (since this is a "hypothetical" situation 
), multiple fraud detectives have been contacted, and have confirmed that in such a situation, possession of the crad, and knowledge of all pertinent details relating to it, imply and prove authorization of use, and absolutely nothing criminal can be done about it. For that matter, one would "hypothetically" be within their rights to use it, and would risk only a very weak civil lawsuit with little to no chance of success - worst case scenario.
), multiple fraud detectives have been contacted, and have confirmed that in such a situation, possession of the crad, and knowledge of all pertinent details relating to it, imply and prove authorization of use, and absolutely nothing criminal can be done about it. For that matter, one would "hypothetically" be within their rights to use it, and would risk only a very weak civil lawsuit with little to no chance of success - worst case scenario.
Anyway- if he put you on his credit card, its in your name, you are not liable. Although if he stops paying the bill, they can go after you for YOUR purchases, so you could HYPOTHETICALLY be shooting yourself in the foot.
Thats why the second I threw the ex fiance out I cancelled him off all my CC's. He could use them, and I dont want to screw up my credit by not paying them, so I am already stuck with the 3K he put on it when we were together and refuses to pay.
The bolded part is both true and not true. Yes we pull the money from the merchant account, but the merchant agrees to that in our contract with them, so essentially we are both protecting you. Also, the CC company I work for does reserve the right to prosecute to the fullest extent. And we do. They caught they guy that bought 3 laptops on my moms card and put him in jail.
That's exactly why merchants should be checking for ID for EVERY purchase. No matter how small. It takes 5 seconds to ask for ID, and could end up saving them TONS in the long run. This is also why most in person fraud is commited using small dollar amounts. larger purchases tend to be online, or at gas stations.
Its not fraud. Its the Actual cardmember using the card. Take some time to read your cardmember agreements, they state that you are responsible for all charges put forth by any members you authorize on your account. But liability wise, you could be held liable IF he lets the account go to collections. You better believe they'd start calling you to collect on those prada's!
It's a nice bit of extortion, though. Merchants HAVE to accept credit/debit cards now if they want to stay in business, and to do that, they HAVE to sign that they're essentially liable. The only way the CC company is protecting the card holder, in reality, is by holding a gun to the merchant's head.
You can only take ID if you're doing an in person transaction. If it's a phone transaction, you're screwed, and that confirmation number only means there are funds available. It doesn't mean, at least in the case of Visa and MC, that the CC company assumes ANY responsibility for the validity.
I'll NEVER again accept a CC transaction by telephone. Ever.
Amex does pursue SOME fraud, but they're so hard to deal with and charge the merchant two and three times - at least - the rates the other cards charge, so they aren't as readily accepted. We do take them at the furniture store, but only because Amex worked out a deal with the card processing company we go through to agree to the same rates as VISA and MC, and I still cringe every time (which is thankfully rarely) someone uses one. It takes three times as long for the money to be transferred to our account. Even longer than Discover.
Question: was the merchant reimbursed for the amount that was withdrawn from the account, or was he still stuck with the bill?
You can only take ID if you're doing an in person transaction. If it's a phone transaction, you're screwed, and that confirmation number only means there are funds available. It doesn't mean, at least in the case of Visa and MC, that the CC company assumes ANY responsibility for the validity.
I'll NEVER again accept a CC transaction by telephone. Ever.
Amex does pursue SOME fraud, but they're so hard to deal with and charge the merchant two and three times - at least - the rates the other cards charge, so they aren't as readily accepted. We do take them at the furniture store, but only because Amex worked out a deal with the card processing company we go through to agree to the same rates as VISA and MC, and I still cringe every time (which is thankfully rarely) someone uses one. It takes three times as long for the money to be transferred to our account. Even longer than Discover.
Question: was the merchant reimbursed for the amount that was withdrawn from the account, or was he still stuck with the bill?
Essentially, yeah. But it's the price of doing business. A lot of people wouldn't buy that $3,000.00 television if they didn't have a credit card to pay over time.
And that's a smart idea. You never know who is calling in that order.
From what I have heard, the most Amex will charge is 3%. I dont deal with merchants though. I heard Visa is up to 1.5%. I can tell you right now that I would def. spend more on my amex card with a $6,000.00 limit than I would on my Visa card though. Higher merchant fee, maybe, but that usually goes hand in hand with higher spending. And if you think about it, and break it down.. it's not terrible.
Say someone comes into your store and wants to buy something for $1,000.00. They use Visa, Visa gets 15 bucks. They use Amex, Amex gets 30 bucks. A lot of times though, the cardmember is more willing to spend more on Amex, so it's a difference of 30 bucks to get the $970.00 or nothing at all. Small price to pay. I do agree Amex doesn't make sense for small mom and pop stores though. No point there.
That I do not know. BUT, in MOST fraud situations, the merchant could have been a little more careful to prevent it. This was back in 1999, where the guy verified the billing address (we had just moved and the ONLY person we had given my uncles house as our billing address was to the U-Haul company- that's how they caught the guy. It was an employee there.) But then had the laptops shipped to a COMPLETELY different address.
Nowadays- merchants won't ship to an address they can't verify with the CC company. We have the ability to add a temporary ship-to addres, where the cardmember has to call in, verify their password, or social, AND the 4 digit code thats on the card in order to change the address. makes it a lot harder to commit the kind of fraud this guy did.
Oh- also keep in mind- the fraudsters are getting smarter, they will have the item sent to the billing address, and then camp out on your street and wait for the package to arrive and steal it off your front step while you're at work.
Nice huh?
And that's a smart idea. You never know who is calling in that order.
From what I have heard, the most Amex will charge is 3%. I dont deal with merchants though. I heard Visa is up to 1.5%. I can tell you right now that I would def. spend more on my amex card with a $6,000.00 limit than I would on my Visa card though. Higher merchant fee, maybe, but that usually goes hand in hand with higher spending. And if you think about it, and break it down.. it's not terrible.
Say someone comes into your store and wants to buy something for $1,000.00. They use Visa, Visa gets 15 bucks. They use Amex, Amex gets 30 bucks. A lot of times though, the cardmember is more willing to spend more on Amex, so it's a difference of 30 bucks to get the $970.00 or nothing at all. Small price to pay. I do agree Amex doesn't make sense for small mom and pop stores though. No point there.
That I do not know. BUT, in MOST fraud situations, the merchant could have been a little more careful to prevent it. This was back in 1999, where the guy verified the billing address (we had just moved and the ONLY person we had given my uncles house as our billing address was to the U-Haul company- that's how they caught the guy. It was an employee there.) But then had the laptops shipped to a COMPLETELY different address.
Nowadays- merchants won't ship to an address they can't verify with the CC company. We have the ability to add a temporary ship-to addres, where the cardmember has to call in, verify their password, or social, AND the 4 digit code thats on the card in order to change the address. makes it a lot harder to commit the kind of fraud this guy did.
Oh- also keep in mind- the fraudsters are getting smarter, they will have the item sent to the billing address, and then camp out on your street and wait for the package to arrive and steal it off your front step while you're at work.
Nice huh?
It works against the merchant, though, because typically, as a customer adds items, discounts are expected, so you take a hit on the front end in the form of a discount and then on the back end in from Amex.
Now, I ask people how they are going to be paying for something BEFORE I start calculating any "deals." If it's Amex? They don't get much, and they are usually more than happy to use another card.
I encourage the use of paper checks over their debit cards as well, since we KNOW where they live (we usually deliver) and it doesn't cost anything to deposit the check, and the funds are transferred more quickly.
Now, I ask people how they are going to be paying for something BEFORE I start calculating any "deals." If it's Amex? They don't get much, and they are usually more than happy to use another card.
I encourage the use of paper checks over their debit cards as well, since we KNOW where they live (we usually deliver) and it doesn't cost anything to deposit the check, and the funds are transferred more quickly.
Oh, I don't tell them I won't accept it, I just tell them I can give them a better discount with something else. Which is true, and my choice. I don't up the charge if they use Amex, I just can't give them the same break on the price.
Rarely does anyone use an Amex anyway. Thankfully. And I'm seeing more and more going with cash, even on large purchases. They've figured out they're better off going to their credit unions.
Rarely does anyone use an Amex anyway. Thankfully. And I'm seeing more and more going with cash, even on large purchases. They've figured out they're better off going to their credit unions.
I'd "lose" the card too...
Stooping to his level? Maybe...but then again you "lost" the card and since I'm guessing you two aren't on speaking terms you'd have no reason to contact him to say "hey that card you gave me is missing".
That's just me though. If it was my ex's card, I'd go find the scroungiest looking person I could find in the nastiest neighborhood, and drop the card accidentally right in front of them. Then again, my ex has cost me $10,000...
Stooping to his level? Maybe...but then again you "lost" the card and since I'm guessing you two aren't on speaking terms you'd have no reason to contact him to say "hey that card you gave me is missing".
That's just me though. If it was my ex's card, I'd go find the scroungiest looking person I could find in the nastiest neighborhood, and drop the card accidentally right in front of them. Then again, my ex has cost me $10,000...
1. Situation is hypothetical, so I'm not "doing" anything to anyone.
2. I did state that the proposed course of action would be, for the sake of argument, completely lawful. Therefore not actually doing anything carrying the negative connotations you seem to bring to it.
In other words . . . Gear down big rig. No need to be rude. Everyone else seems to have contrtibuted some very interesting information and insights over the last 6 pages whilst being perfectly respectful.
2. I did state that the proposed course of action would be, for the sake of argument, completely lawful. Therefore not actually doing anything carrying the negative connotations you seem to bring to it.
In other words . . . Gear down big rig. No need to be rude. Everyone else seems to have contrtibuted some very interesting information and insights over the last 6 pages whilst being perfectly respectful.