The dog musing/vent thread

[Beanie]

As far as bossy dogs go, Watson's best dog friend is a bossy ACD. It definitely requires management when they're together - no high value chews unless they are closely supervised, and we have to make sure the ACD isn't controlling who Watson can get attention from. But really, they do very well together because Watson is easy going and they have worked out their relationship. It *can* work quite well, and just requires that you let the bossy dog know that her bossing isn't necessary or tolerated. I think this type of behavior is something that is definitely worse at the beginning, not something that gets worse over time (unless you mamage it the completely wrong way, which I don't think you will).

I absolutely agree with this. Pepper can be a bossy, pushy bitch and it was actually one of the reasons I wasn't interested in her after her first trial weekend with me. She would shove herself in the way and try to prevent me from interacting with Auggie. Nope nope nope! The second time she came to stay with me, I made rules about how I was NOT going to allow it and how to deal with it when it happened. She also tried the game again when she moved back in permanently. She's not much for it anymore, she still really really wants your attention AT ALL TIMES - but she has learned that wedging herself between you and another dog doesn't get her attention. It gets her put to the side and ignored.

I guess I'm just having a harder time with this than I thought I would. Astro is my baby, I pretty blatantly think he's the best dog. I woke up this morning incredibly stressed because I couldn't have our usual nice Astro-and-owner morning cuddle time in bed, because lil miss was shrieking in her crate. I hate dogs that make noise so, so much...

I think this is normal stuff, especially since you've not had a second dog before. It's an adjustment when you add a family member. Ask sparks about how she has felt on having a second child after Hannah, LOL. Things settle down into a new routine and you find a new normal that works well for everyone. The crate stuff is something you can train, so eventually it won't be a problem anymore. Auggie used to get snuggles on weekend mornings - now Auggie gets snuggles and then Payton gets snuggles. It all takes time to adjust into your new rhythm, but you get there. And adding another dog doesn't mean you have to stop thinking of Astro as the best dog either. ;> Auggie is definitely still my favorite and I make no bones about it, haha! You come to love everybody in their own way but it doesn't mean your favorite has to become any less of a favorite...

 

[Laurelin]

Well both ACDs were adopted yesterday. So that's good I guess.

There's a dog at another shelter that is 1 year, 1 month. Listed as a border collie/beagle one place and ACD/beagle another. Not really sure what breed, I see JRT in there... I may go check her out tomorrow. She's been up for adoption a while and since she's not a puppy I doubt she'd get adopted by then. Something about her picture is appealing. She kind of has that borderstaffy type look to her- compact and athletic. Hard to judge size based on photo though. I've been watching her on petfinder a while.

I think I should PROBABLY wait till next Friday to really start looking. That way this weekend I can get the house set up and then have a 3 day weekend to look.

I swore I'd wait longer though...

And I still think I may add a sports bred dog to the mix in a year or so too. :/ Crazy dog lady, here I come!

 

[Laurelin]

As far as the new dog stuff: Most dogs take an adjustment period. Summer spent her first few weeks attacking Beau. Mia fit in really fast but that was unusual. I still had a couple panic attacks of 'what have I done?' though. The foster terrier took about a month before she was ok with the other dogs.

Oh and you should have seen adding Beau to the shelties. :rofl1: They were NOT HAPPY CAMPERS. He was a hyperactive puppy and a menace though who just looooved tormenting the shelties. He knew he could out run and maneuver them so he'd just do whatever he could to **** them off, especially Nikki. Every papillon we brought home loved to torment Nikki.

Eventually everyone figures it out though.

 

[Laurelin]

Annnnndddd there's a heeler on craigslist that is good with toy dogs and has lived with them before. Needs 'a bigger yard', which I don't have but I do a lot with the dogs...

Guys I have dog want BAD. Like real bad.

 

[xpaeanx]

Annnnndddd there's a heeler on craigslist that is good with toy dogs and has lived with them before. Needs 'a bigger yard', which I don't have but I do a lot with the dogs...

Guys I have dog want BAD. Like real bad.

Go meet it.

 

[meepitsmeagan]

I guess I'm just having a harder time with this than I thought I would. Astro is my baby, I pretty blatantly think he's the best dog. I woke up this morning incredibly stressed because I couldn't have our usual nice Astro-and-owner morning cuddle time in bed, because lil miss was shrieking in her crate. I hate dogs that make noise so, so much....

She also herds Astro away from me, which - no. Absolutely not. You will not herd my favorite dog away from me. I love that he follows me into the bathroom and up on the couch, but he can't right now because she'll drive him away. I can redirect her but honestly it's not a good way for me to learn to like her. And it makes me worry, she's already this bossy about staking out me/the couch/the bath mat from Astro, and it's only Day 2 - is she going to get worse?

Okay, I'm not always the best about communicating via interwebz so I'm going to try to not sound like a snarkass.

Because this is a general thread and I'm not on here everyday, I don't know the story of how you found her or the details of why you decided her vs other dogs you were looking at.. I know you said the meet and greet went really well and that she was a shelter pull. If I remember correctly, you were looking at: Pei and mixes (sorry I don't remember so well). Maybe a BC was on your list? I know you said that you didn't normally care for a herder mix and frankly they are a world away from a Pei.

So, I'm going to ask the question. *puts on flame suit* How much research did you do on ACD's? Because frankly, everything you've listed is EXTREMELY normal and probably why she ended up in the shelter to begin with. They are controlling, loud (yeah... Cattle Dog shriek is a thing), they herd and bite things, and the girls are bitches. Especially when they come from a shelter situation into a strange environment and don't know how to manage themselves they revert to instincts. Which is to herd. And sometimes to YELL AT ALL THE THINGS. And push people and dogs around so that they feel a sense of control. She needs you to give her a sense of purpose. Teach her to relax. Teach her to behave in a crate. Tether her to force her to settle. Teach her tricks and stimulate her mentally. ACD's thrive off order and work. Workworkworkworkworkaholics.

I think you either love them or you hate them, and I really hope you learn to love her. In order to this you HAVE to give her a chance. It's only day two and you aren't giving her a chance. All you are doing is wishing you had kept looking. You aren't doing yourself or her any good by doing that. You need to spend time with her WITHOUT Astro around, and you need to make sure that you and Astro have alone time together as well. You also need to do things with both of them.

You will either get into a groove of two dogs and love them both, or you won't. I challenge you to give her two months, at least. If by two months you still really don't feel like you jive, then make the decision. Because nobody wants to live with the dog they hate and frankly it isn't fair to either of you.

Oh, and do me a favor. Check this out: http://chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171193 There is a lot of good advice from fellow Chazzers on here. I've been here and we got through it and Rider is a completely different animal because I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes you don't get the dog you want, but you get the dog you need. That is what a fellow dog friend told me going through his rough patch and I can't tell you how true that holds. I think you will find that this little ACDx will change your world, and hopefully for the better.

Also, aucado.us is a great ACD forum that I recommend you check out. I know this came out long and I'm sorry, but I hope you are able to take something from this post to help you.

 

[DJEtzel]

Okay, I'm not always the best about communicating via interwebz so I'm going to try to not sound like a snarkass.

Because this is a general thread and I'm not on here everyday, I don't know the story of how you found her or the details of why you decided her vs other dogs you were looking at.. I know you said the meet and greet went really well and that she was a shelter pull. If I remember correctly, you were looking at: Pei and mixes (sorry I don't remember so well). Maybe a BC was on your list? I know you said that you didn't normally care for a herder mix and frankly they are a world away from a Pei.

So, I'm going to ask the question. *puts on flame suit* How much research did you do on ACD's? Because frankly, everything you've listed is EXTREMELY normal and probably why she ended up in the shelter to begin with. They are controlling, loud (yeah... Cattle Dog shriek is a thing), they herd and bite things, and the girls are bitches. Especially when they come from a shelter situation into a strange environment and don't know how to manage themselves they revert to instincts. Which is to herd. And sometimes to YELL AT ALL THE THINGS. And push people and dogs around so that they feel a sense of control. She needs you to give her a sense of purpose. Teach her to relax. Teach her to behave in a crate. Tether her to force her to settle. Teach her tricks and stimulate her mentally. ACD's thrive off order and work. Workworkworkworkworkaholics.

I think you either love them or you hate them, and I really hope you learn to love her. In order to this you HAVE to give her a chance. It's only day two and you aren't giving her a chance. All you are doing is wishing you had kept looking. You aren't doing yourself or her any good by doing that. You need to spend time with her WITHOUT Astro around, and you need to make sure that you and Astro have alone time together as well. You also need to do things with both of them.

You will either get into a groove of two dogs and love them both, or you won't. I challenge you to give her two months, at least. If by two months you still really don't feel like you jive, then make the decision. Because nobody wants to live with the dog they hate and frankly it isn't fair to either of you.

Oh, and do me a favor. Check this out: http://chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171193 There is a lot of good advice from fellow Chazzers on here. I've been here and we got through it and Rider is a completely different animal because I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes you don't get the dog you want, but you get the dog you need. That is what a fellow dog friend told me going through his rough patch and I can't tell you how true that holds. I think you will find that this little ACDx will change your world, and hopefully for the better.

Also, aucado.us is a great ACD forum that I recommend you check out. I know this came out long and I'm sorry, but I hope you are able to take something from this post to help you.

Two thumbs up.

All of this sounds totally standard for an adult herder rescue in a new house with an adult dog.

 

[SpaceMutt]

I really do appreciate the honest advice, thank you. Seriously.

To give more background: I was mostly looking at other types of mixes, she was one of only two herding mixes that seemed remotely feasible for me. The other was another cattle dog, also female, in foster care at a different rescue. She never barked once or made noise there and was also totally dog friendly, which is why I was interested in her - but she got snapped up like a hotcake, everyone wanted her.

I do know a fair few cattle dogs and felt reasonably aware of what they're like (loud, pushy, intelligent, less soft than some other herders, tough/hardy, athletic). I probably could've thought more about it, but literally 72 hours ago I was completely sure that I wanted something different from Astro. It felt so correct, but here I am. The reality is harder to process.

I was very up front with every rescue that I talked with about what I wanted. And she was pretty much perfect for me in the shelter as I said. Visited multiple times and every time she was quiet, played with Astro well, took handling well and didn't guard her toys or space. If anything she seemed very very soft, and she didn't make a peep in her kennel. I also watched her greet and play with several female dogs very nicely, which was promising. I felt like I was making a reasonable decision, taking an adult dog with a behavioral evaluation at hand and who'd "passed" all my meetings with flying colors.

Maybe she was shut down. Would totally make sense and be normal for the environment. I knew that was a possibility but it's still disheartening.

I expected to get flak because I'm being totally honest and spilling a lot in my anxiety-ridden state, and I probably didn't make the wisest choice. She was just EXACTLY what I wanted in all the shelter meet ups, and I grilled them on her. She's also part terrier and I do like a lot of terriers...maybe I've just met a bunch of abnormal Jack Russell's? They've all been drivey and feisty but quiet, easy to settle and hard to stress.

I'm just feeling so confused and shitty and guilty. When I brought Astro home I loved him from the second I had him. But the thing is that he wasn't right for me on paper either - didn't matter, I made it work because I loved him so fiercely. I don't recall being this stressed with him and she's not even doing anything wrong or unexpected, I do recognize that. I know it's me, I'm very aware that she's just what she is and is actually adjusting on her end pretty **** well given the circumstances.

I am going to take them both on a hike this afternoon (on lines of course). Maybe that will help and I can stop over analyzing.

Edit: Oh and part of all this is that I had people being like "get a puppy, you need to raise them to be what you want from the ground up." I pushed back against that even though I heard it from some extremely knowledgable people. And now I feel stupid.

Another edit: just remembered I wanted to do the shut down so a big involved hike doesn't make any sense. I am so frazzled, who even knows what is going on in my brain?

 

[Dizzy]

Omg Bodhi hated me when I brought Fred home. She was physically distressed, drooling, panting, very very unhappy lady dog.

These things take time, and EVERYONE gets new dog/puppy remorse!!!!!!!! If they say they don't they're either lying or an alien. It's a MASSIVE adjustment for everyone. I felt soooo bad for Bodhi, even though Fred was badly wanted and planned for.

Not only does it take time to bond, to get to know the new dog but your routine changes and dynamics change. You're panicking right now.... Relax, work on positive behaviours and interactions, or work on just having them ignore one another. Spend individual time with both, walk them separately, spend time bonding with both of them.

It will come, give it chance and it can take months, not days or weeks. Bodhi needed a lot of help to bond with Fred, she needed me to be physically touching her to reassure her when he came near. Slowly slowly, catch the monkey. They're best buds now

 

[Laurelin]

Yes, it's totally normal to not bond right away and be overwhelmed/panicked. I've had that every time I've gotten a new dog. And I expect it when I get Nextdog too. Heck even getting Summer made me question if I was doing the right thing and she's a tiny easy dog! It's just a big adjustment any time you add a dog. It can take weeks to months to see if it is a good fit or not. Right now she's probably stressed from moving and you're stressed from getting a new dog.

I just moved and even with the same dogs and me being the same owner, Summer freaked out a bit about the move and I stressed because she stressed. Change can just do that to you.

It'll all be ok. Give it some time and see how she fits in. I think it's rare that a dog just fits right into your life without a thought or any kind of shifting of the household dynamics.

 

[Oko]

She probably wasn't acting like her normal self in the shelter, but she also probably isn't acting like her normal self with you. Try and give her a couple of weeks to integrate and get used to living with you, get some rules and structure to her life, and come out of her shell all the way. You've gotten great advice. Breathe. It's going to be okay.

 

[k9krazee]

I thought I wanted multiple dogs....and now that I have two, it kind of stresses me out. And these are two dogs that I know and love!! Jack was my baby for many years, even though we lived apart for the last 7 out of 10 years he's always been my dog and I always made extra efforts to do things with him. Crossbone had been our only dog for a year and a half and he's spoiled rotten.

Jack just has a lot of issues--he's big, barks a lot, stresses about stuff, always demanding something, is not dog-social, can't ever be crated or contained, big, barks, etc. He's teaching Crossbone bad things. I don't know how we'll ever travel again.

BUT I'm trying to relax. It has been 2 weeks. We will all learn to love living together!!

SpaceMutt, try to stick with it and have an open mind. Adjusting with an adult dog straight out of the shelter will just take some time for you, for her and for Astro. I would still take the dogs for a hike together--she probably needs to release some pent up energy and walking the dogs together is a good bonding situation.

 

[SpaceMutt]

It is reassuring to hear that this is normal/happens to others. And Oko that is probably true, she's stressed here too and once she gets some boundaries and exercise and training she will probably be different.

I am trying not to panic. I DO want to give this a chance, it may not seem like it but I do. I do think she is a good dog. I just don't know what it is about me and dogs barking in a high pitched way, but it's just so visceral and so toxic. I walked in the door just now from work, heard her screaming, and immediately started crying. It's meltdown inducing to me, in combination with all the other stress.

 

[Locke]

I just want to say I totally get how you're feeling Spacemutt and I'm sorry it's not going smoothly for you.

As others have said, it is totally normal to need an adjustment period, but it's important to also take your feelings and emotions into consideration as well.

Not long ago, I thought I wanted a second dog too. Having two dogs in the house was more familiar for me than just one, and while I figured Smilet might not be overly thrilled with a sibling, I knew he would adjust.
So I started fostering a dog that I was interested in. Smiley acted better than I had expected, foster dog was pretty great, but I was a mess! I was stressed and overwhelmed and I just felt like I had made a huge mistake! I stuck it out for three weeks before I had a big crying meltdown and asked the rescue if she could move to a different foster home.
I felt guilty at having given up, but I felt a thousand times better after she left.


I say, if you want to give it some time, do it, but don't feel like you have to. Would it help if you invited a friend over that could give Astro tons of loving while you worked on bonding with the newbie?

 

[SpaceMutt]

I just want to say I totally get how you're feeling Spacemutt and I'm sorry it's not going smoothly for you.

As others have said, it is totally normal to need an adjustment period, but it's important to also take your feelings and emotions into consideration as well.

Not long ago, I thought I wanted a second dog too. Having two dogs in the house was more familiar for me than just one, and while I figured Smilet might not be overly thrilled with a sibling, I knew he would adjust.
So I started fostering a dog that I was interested in. Smiley acted better than I had expected, foster dog was pretty great, but I was a mess! I was stressed and overwhelmed and I just felt like I had made a huge mistake! I stuck it out for three weeks before I had a big crying meltdown and asked the rescue if she could move to a different foster home.
I felt guilty at having given up, but I felt a thousand times better after she left.


I say, if you want to give it some time, do it, but don't feel like you have to. Would it help if you invited a friend over that could give Astro tons of loving while you worked on bonding with the newbie?

Thank you for the support.

And that's a good idea. I have a friend that loves Astro and the feeling is mutual, I'm sure he'd watch him for a bit so I could take the new gal out somewhere secluded and fun and nature-y or just hang out with him while I trained her, then I'd feel less guilty about all this crate time he's getting.

I am relieved to hear you say it undid you so much, as mean as that sounds; like I said hearing that it's hard on others makes me feel less crazy. I just keep wondering why this is such a dramatic thing for me, people add dogs all the time. I haven't cried this much and felt this anxious since I got divorced.

 

[*blackrose]

Add me to the list of people who gets extremely stressed with a new dog in the household. Like, BAD stressed. I go off food, I'm irritable/weepy, my sleep schedule gets thrown out of wack...it takes me about two weeks to get back to normal. And I cannot STAND grown dogs that bark while crated. That is one thing that really, really, really gets under my skin with a new dog.

I had a dog dumped on me by my sister before I got Abrams and I seriously considered keeping her, but she would SCREAM while crated and I was living in an apartment at the time and didn't have time to appropriately work with her. She was an awesome dog, and I enjoyed having her, but I just couldn't deal with the crate screaming, and if I left her loose she was hit and miss with her house training. I rehomed her to a guy who ADORES her and I still get picture updates.

I think that is why I prefer puppies. Most puppies are cut from the same cloth and they're pretty much blank slates. I can expect them to bark in the crate, tear stuff up, and have accidents, but I also feel more comfortable dealing with puppies with those issues than adult dogs who've had that behavior reinforced for so long.

 

[k9krazee]

I'm super frustrated with Jack today.

He won't. stop. barking!! At EVERYTHING and nothing.

He got in the trash.

He ate my underwear.

He attacked Crossbone outside--I think he was being possessive over the food bowls on the table.

*repeats* we will all learn to live together. we will all learn to live together. we will all learn to live together.

 

[SpaceMutt]

Add me to the list of people who gets extremely stressed with a new dog in the household. Like, BAD stressed. I go off food, I'm irritable/weepy, my sleep schedule gets thrown out of wack...it takes me about two weeks to get back to normal. And I cannot STAND grown dogs that bark while crated. That is one thing that really, really, really gets under my skin with a new dog.

I had a dog dumped on me by my sister before I got Abrams and I seriously considered keeping her, but she would SCREAM while crated and I was living in an apartment at the time and didn't have time to appropriately work with her. She was an awesome dog, and I enjoyed having her, but I just couldn't deal with the crate screaming, and if I left her loose she was hit and miss with her house training. I rehomed her to a guy who ADORES her and I still get picture updates.

I think that is why I prefer puppies. Most puppies are cut from the same cloth and they're pretty much blank slates. I can expect them to bark in the crate, tear stuff up, and have accidents, but I also feel more comfortable dealing with puppies with those issues than adult dogs who've had that behavior reinforced for so long.

I must've just gotten extremely, extremely lucky with Astro-puppy. He passed out cold the first night I had him and didn't make a peep until the next morning at a reasonable hour. And he never barked or screamed in the crate, he whined a fair bit but whining is much more tolerable to me (though I still got him to shut up quickly because I lived on the sixth floor of an apartment with extremely noise-grumpy neighbors). He also never had an accident in his crate and the total number of accidents in general, in his entire life, is definitely less than 8. I've been horribly spoiled.

And yeah, the barking...when I took a nosework class in NY, there was a person who had a number of dogs, and varied which one she brought. I just don't understand how she dealt with it. They ALL screamed and barked incessantly when crated. I tried to hide my agony but...the way I feel when dogs bark and wail nonstop must be how non-dog people feel about dogs in general.

I'm super frustrated with Jack today.

He won't. stop. barking!! At EVERYTHING and nothing.

He got in the trash.

He ate my underwear.

He attacked Crossbone outside--I think he was being possessive over the food bowls on the table.

*repeats* we will all learn to live together. we will all learn to live together. we will all learn to live together.

That is the mantra of right now

I worked on "leave it" and eye contact with lil miss. She picked it up pretty quickly. Tomorrow I'll do more impulse control stuff with her because she desperately needs it, and because she's finally asleep right now in her crate quietly after the mental exercise.

I've had a few fun moments with her at least. She hopped up on the couch and flailed her paws at me, made me laugh. She's very "handsy" in general.

 

[Locke]

Thank you for the support.

...

I am relieved to hear you say it undid you so much, as mean as that sounds; like I said hearing that it's hard on others makes me feel less crazy. I just keep wondering why this is such a dramatic thing for me, people add dogs all the time. I haven't cried this much and felt this anxious since I got divorced.

For me, I found it really difficult to fairly divide my attention, love, and patience between the two. While I was doing stuff with one dog, I was constantly fretting on what I was going to do with the other to make it "fair". I was overwhelmed with guilt and worry, and no one was having fun!

You're certainly not alone in feeling anxious with a new dog around. It really changes the dynamics of your relationship with your first dog. I came to the conclusion that Smiley loves my undivided attention, and in turn, I want nothing more than to give him my full love and attention. A one dog house is what works best for me.

 

[SpaceMutt]

For me, I found it really difficult to fairly divide my attention, love, and patience between the two. While I was doing stuff with one dog, I was constantly fretting on what I was going to do with the other to make it "fair". I was overwhelmed with guilt and worry, and no one was having fun!

You're certainly not alone in feeling anxious with a new dog around. It really changes the dynamics of your relationship with your first dog. I came to the conclusion that Smiley loves my undivided attention, and in turn, I want nothing more than to give him my full love and attention. A one dog house is what works best for me.

That totally makes sense and it's good that you know that about yourself now.

I still can't tell yet whether it's the stress of another dog, or that (as bad this sounds) it's the stress of this dog. I can't have her out of her crate because she guards the couch, falling treats, ME - she's a negative presence in Astro's life so far and that's awful to me. Even when she's crated and I'm just walking Astro past to go on a separate walk she lunges and snarls at him now