Some Pit Education

[jess2416]

i was joking with her so maybe we could get alittle humor here and cut the crap,,,lady friend

OK..

I just didnt want to see this thread locked

 

[dr2little]

no, not all pits are DA. i think most pit bulls have the potential to be DA if put in the right situation.

how do you know that dog aggression can be bred out? and even more, how do you know dog aggression can be bred out without changing other parts of the breed that are absolutely intrinsic to what these dogs are?

Exactly, not all pits are DA.

DA can be bred down the same as many other temp. traits are bred down in many other breeds, by selective breeding. Again, and I'm not sure why the strong opposition to this suggestion, but I'm not in any way talking about drastically changing this dog.

 

[Delisay]

I will say Lil' Bit (the dog in the picture of course) is a spectacular animal- I was relieved to see some posts acknowledge that. She is also quite loved.

How is it that so many 'different' people have had so much first hand experience of the care of this particular dog...and are all here to say so?

(BTW, Amstaffer, kudos for your restraint when responding to Texas' emotional and offensive posts to you. I'm impressed! )

D.

 

[elegy]

but you ARE talking about drastically changing the dog.

how many of the dogs who do not show dog aggression have not done so because they have not been challenged? how many of those dogs do not show dog aggression because they are so fearful and submissive that they shut down?

 

[GHOST]

look now we've heard the same thing over and over,,,,we are just not gonna agree,,, and that is that,,,i don't care,,, i feed my hooch's,,not anyone else,,,\\

P.S. ppl like J Crew are the irresponsible ppl that say he never done it before after the fact,,,, he don't have to secure his dog,,,, heck he probroly does't even have a dog ,much less a apbt,,,he probroly gots a shitzue or something,,,lmao,,,that's okay to,,, i didn't come to be ugly,,, just to try in help understand the facts,,,, now those of you that has never ever had a dog on a chain is the only one that needs to be running them chops,,,bumping those gums so to say

 

[Amstaffer]

Wow Doberkim, did you ever go off in the wrong direction. At what point did I ever suggest making Pits into Goldens.

You should know better than just about anyone on here that things such a DA can be bred down without totally changing a dog. Are responsible breeders of your breed not breeding for temperment in both directions?

Please, don't put words in my mouth and certainly do not suggest that I don't have genuine affection and the best intentions where pits are concerned.

One important question to ask yourself. Are all pits DA?

I think you can keep a Pit Bulls drive and all the things you love and get rid of the DA. Sal has lots of drive and is wonderful dog (although he is a Amstaff) and is friendly will everyone (dog, cat, human....)

Athena is a Pit Bull who is getting old but was the product of a Bitch being used for a fighting operation (long story but I rescued her as a 10 wk old puppy) She is also very easy going with Dogs. Athena is very intense (for a 10yr old) and plays hard and rough but is not a threat to kill.

Both my dogs are not DA I think mostly from socialization and training (that way I get the credit ) As several of you know from my past posts I think a dog behavior is mostly due to Nuture instead of Nature.

PS...The guy who lives next to me has a APBT that is tempered just like Sal (but a better watch dog) They are both males and can play together and never get mad. They are always supervised but they have been living next door to each other and played for many many hours and never even growled or showed teeth.(but some humping )

 

[GHOST]

OK..

I just didnt want to see this thread locked

:hail:

gotcha ya

 

[elegy]

P.S. ppl like J Crew are the irresponsible ppl that say he never done it before after the fact,,,, he don't have to secure his dog,,,, heck he probroly does't even have a dog ,much less a apbt,,,he probroly gots a shitzue or something,,,lmao,,,that's okay to,,, i didn't come to be ugly,,, just to try in help understand the facts,,,, now those of you that has never ever had a dog on a chain is the only one that needs to be running them chops,,,bumping those gums so to say

this is the kind of stuff that gets threads locked.

i don't know about jcrew, but i DO have a pit bull, a drivey, dog-aggressive, fence-breaking, chainlink-eating pit bull and she is never and will never be chained. i supervise her when she's outside. when i'm away, she's in the house.

 

[GHOST]

this is the kind of stuff that gets threads locked.

i don't know about jcrew, but i DO have a pit bull, a drivey, dog-aggressive, fence-breaking, chainlink-eating pit bull and she is never and will never be chained. i supervise her when she's outside. when i'm away, she's in the house.

i got 6 and none are on a chain,,,, alternatives,,, electric,,, but i am lucky to have it this way do to my set-up

 

[dr2little]

you suggested breeding DA out of the breed. when you sacrifice one thing in a breed, what makes you think you wont sacrifice other things?
That's a very defeatest attitude, and I really don't mean any offense, but why take that stand when you don't know what compromises if any would be made. Remember, this takes generations.

some tried "fixing" the doberman making him a more appealing dog after the 70's had dobes topping the "vicious dog" lists - they created numerous weak nerved dobes that can't work for anything, walk great on the end of the leash, and are shadows of what the breed once was. go look at the AKC's relationship with working dog sports (WDS) and how many times they tried that - how unwilling some breed clubs are to acknowledge the working aspect of their breed. (thankfully the dobe club NOT one of them).

responsible breeders in my breed are ensuring that the doberman remains a sharp working dog that is NOT suitable for everyone. a dog that EVERYONE cannot own, a dog that belongs in a certain type of household. not breeding soft dogs that anyone can own.

and for the record, the AKC standard for my breed specifically mentions DA as something NOT to be disqualified in the ring.

responsible breeders in my breed will NEVER place a male doberman in the same household as another male doberman in 99.99% of households.

This is 2006, so much has changed with respect to the knowledge and science that goes into breeding.

 

[doberkim]

amstaffer, i have a distinct impression that the drive you speak of, and the drive some of the rest of us live with, are a bit different in nature

you also leave your two together unattended when you are not home, dont you?

 

[GHOST]

this is the kind of stuff that gets threads locked.

i don't know about jcrew, but i DO have a pit bull, a drivey, dog-aggressive, fence-breaking, chainlink-eating pit bull and she is never and will never be chained. i supervise her when she's outside. when i'm away, she's in the house.

now what did i say that was so wrong,,,

if it was the P,S.,,,, someone else did it earlier and it was okay on the very same subject,,,, so i figured i could at least respond to it

 

[doberkim]

you suggested breeding DA out of the breed. when you sacrifice one thing in a breed, what makes you think you wont sacrifice other things?
That's a very defeatest attitude, and I really don't mean any offense, but why take that stand when you don't know what compromises if any would be made. Remember, this takes generations.

some tried "fixing" the doberman making him a more appealing dog after the 70's had dobes topping the "vicious dog" lists - they created numerous weak nerved dobes that can't work for anything, walk great on the end of the leash, and are shadows of what the breed once was. go look at the AKC's relationship with working dog sports (WDS) and how many times they tried that - how unwilling some breed clubs are to acknowledge the working aspect of their breed. (thankfully the dobe club NOT one of them).

responsible breeders in my breed are ensuring that the doberman remains a sharp working dog that is NOT suitable for everyone. a dog that EVERYONE cannot own, a dog that belongs in a certain type of household. not breeding soft dogs that anyone can own.

and for the record, the AKC standard for my breed specifically mentions DA as something NOT to be disqualified in the ring.

responsible breeders in my breed will NEVER place a male doberman in the same household as another male doberman in 99.99% of households.

This is 2006, so much has changed with respect to the knowledge and science that goes into breeding.

yes, so much has changed! in 2006 we are still battling the weak soft nerves that were bred into the breed 20 years ago. in 2006, we still have dogs that cant do any work at all and would fail at what the original purpose of the breed was.

approximately 70% (and thats a low estimate) of all dobermans that take a DOBERMAN SPECIFIC TEMPERAMENT TEST designed FOR our breed, BY our breed mentors, FAIL!


so how much HAS changed, and how much of it has been for the GOOD of the breed?

 

[dr2little]

but you ARE talking about drastically changing the dog.

how many of the dogs who do not show dog aggression have not done so because they have not been challenged? how many of those dogs do not show dog aggression because they are so fearful and submissive that they shut down?

See, this is what I don't get. Why is it all or nothing? What is it so frightening to even entertain the thought of trying to temper the DA down. It's like THIS is what is so important about the pit rather than all of their other wonderful qualities, that don't incidentally inhibit their very existance.

What characteristic is causing some of the posters on this thread on here to chain their dogs and having them live outside? What is it about the pit that encourages low lifes (a thriving population) to use these dogs for fighting?

 

[Delisay]

I'm not going to make a strong statement of what I think is 'cruel' or not, because neither small kennels nor chains seem appropriate to me for an animal with such spirit. I like to think about it THIS way:

Would you personally prefer to spend time:

a) In a very small open-plan apartment, where you can move around freely.

Or...

b) In a somewhat larger open-plan apartment, with a fairly heavy chain attached to your neck that is hooked up to a peg in the middle of the floor. ..?

In which situation would you be happier?

Del.

 

[Amstaffer]

but you ARE talking about drastically changing the dog.

how many of the dogs who do not show dog aggression have not done so because they have not been challenged? how many of those dogs do not show dog aggression because they are so fearful and submissive that they shut down?

Elegy..You have me a bit confused. Do you think that DA is an essential part of the Pit Bull? I am not putting words in your mouth (I usually agree with your posts) I am honestly trying to figure out what your thought on this is.

Bye the way, Sal (and Athena to a less degree) has been challenge several times (even attacked and had blood drawn) and he has not submitted or attacked. Case in point.... Once at the dog park he was playing with some dogs and he came across a Golden (at least twice Sal's size) who had a Tennis Ball in his mouth. Sal promptly took the ball out of the Golden's mouth. When the Golden bit Sal, Sal thought it was all part of a very rough game. No fight or submission when I seperated them Sal was play bowing and jumping around like it was the best time ever.

Wouldn't it be great to have breed of dog that could stay calm and jump into kill mode? and still have all the other great qualites of the breeds call Pit Bull (far to many to list )

 

[GHOST]

See, this is what I don't get. Why is it all or nothing? What is it so frightening to even entertain the thought of trying to temper the DA down. It's like THIS is what is so important about the pit rather than all of their other wonderful qualities, that don't incidentally inhibit their very existance.

What characteristic is causing some of the posters on this thread on here to chain their dogs and having them live outside? What is it about the pit that encourages low lifes (a thriving population) to use these dogs for fighting?

i feel ur fustration i really do,,, but at the point it is now in a few generations and no game testing(dogfighting) it will start losing these qaulities,,,i have three outside,,,, but after being robbed 2 times i needed a look out for them late night boogers,,,lol,,,next time i gots a secret for them,,, oh i caught them both times ,,,the police didn't touch either one,,,and i live in a really nice part of town,,,

 

[GHOST]

I'm not going to make a strong statement of what I think is 'cruel' or not, because neither small kennels nor chains seem appropriate to me for an animal with such spirit. I like to think about it THIS way:

Would you personally prefer to spend time:

a) In a very small open-plan apartment, where you can move around freely.

Or...

b) In a somewhat larger open-plan apartment, with a fairly heavy chain attached to your neck that is hooked up to a peg in the middle of the floor. ..?

In which situation would you be happier?

Del.

have you ever and i mean ever put a dog on a chain?

 

[elegy]

See, this is what I don't get. Why is it all or nothing? What is it so frightening to even entertain the thought of trying to temper the DA down. It's like THIS is what is so important about the pit rather than all of their other wonderful qualities, that don't incidentally inhibit their very existance.

What characteristic is causing some of the posters on this thread on here to chain their dogs and having them live outside? What is it about the pit that encourages low lifes (a thriving population) to use these dogs for fighting?

because it's stupid and unnecessary and will ultimately be ineffective.

personally i'm about a thousand times more concerned about the people who are breeding pit bulls specifically for human aggression or the people crossing them with guardian breeds (mostly mastiffs) in order to create dogs with athleticism and drive who are suspicious of humans. even if a small contingent of people started breeding for less dog aggression (and again, isn't this what the amstaff breeders have done- or tried to do?) what difference is it really going to make to the big picture?

there is nothing WRONG with the breed. there is heaps wrong with a lot of the owners. there is no reason these people HAVE to own all these pit bulls or HAVE to keep them outside on chains. there are plenty of responsible pit bull owners and breeders who only own the number of dogs they can safely separate and don't need to chain.

and i don't think that fighting is the biggest problem facing these dogs right now. i think if pit bulls become less aggressive or are successfully exterminated, those who want to fight dogs will either create a new breed or will just move on to a different breed. which is why bsl is so ineffective.

 

[Delisay]

have you ever and i mean ever put a dog on a chain?

Nope. (Why do you ask?)