some gun statistics:

[Zoom]

My dad grew up with a multitude of guns in his house. His dad also made sure he knew exactly how to use them, what happened when they were used and how to clean them. I'm sure they were showed off, but like what GO said, if it's drilled into your head to always ALWAYS check the safety, chamber and magazine before doing anything else with it, your chances of accidental deaths decrease. My dad wanted to teach us kids how to shoot and gun safety, etc. He had a pistol in the house for security, but was always kept out of our reach or knowledge of where it was kept. Found out a couple months ago it was in a little portable safe that I'd seen a million times and never knew what was in it.

My mother grew up on a farm with rifles and shotguns but was completely against my dad teaching us anything about guns. Not sure why, but oh well. As it stands now, I know enough to load, turn off/on a safety and be pretty accurate with both a .22 rifle and .45 handgun. Couldn't begin to tell you how to clean and put a piece back together though. Also not entirely certain how to check a chamber without accidently firing. I'll get to correcting that when I can afford to take a course. For now I have dogs and big, sharp knives.

 

[blue]

Now if you want the cool, or image factor, you need to get into the full autos or the short barrel rifles. Even better if they have a suppressor.

 

[Miakoda]

Guns don't just go around shooting people and killing people all by themselves. There is always a human pulling that trigger. And it's naive to think that if the guns aren't there, then those people will just decide to change their ways and become an honest law-abiding citizen. Nope. They will just use other weapons that are just at dangerous and deadly.

Gun censorship or outright bans will do absolutely nothing to keep criminals from owning them.....and using them.

Exactly Zoom. As my family is a big hunting family, there were always guns in the house as I was growing up. BUT, they were and are ALWAYS kept unloaded and secure in a gun closet that only my dad has the key to....even to this day. Not to mention that in that gun closet, the guns are high off the ground in racks. And what's neat is that this gun closet was built into the house and is reinforced against break-ins. And we were taught gun safety from an early age. We learned how to respect them for what they are. When my grandfather or dad would clean them, we were always made to watch and learn. We learned to shoot at an early age (around 7 years of age) and we learned exactly what guns do. Again, respect was a huge issue!

Unfortunately, too many people think that by hiding children from them, refusing to teach them about guns, and pretending they dont' exist will keep these kids from ever being curious about them or even knowing about them. In fact, it will do quite the opposite. And these are the kids that either hurt themselves or someone else.

 

[Puckstop31]

I guess I don't see the point other than to feel like a bad@ss. Why would a civilian ever need that type of gun? If it ever got stolen then that's one incredibly powerful weapon you just stuck in some horrible person's hands......not worth it in my opinion. If you're going to have a gun to protect yourself, you should be a good enough shot where you don't need a gun like that. But then again, I don't think most people get those types of weapons for protection. I think they get them for the image. (which is exactly why my 23 year old older brother would love to have one if he had the money) That's not a good enough reason to me.

You miss the point... The reason for the 2nd Amendment is so the citizens can protect themselves for tryanny.

NEED is totally not relevant to this arguement. It is a RIGHT, period. A right that "shall not be infringed".

It amazes me how many "pro-choice" people are against the right of a law abding, person to own the firearm of their choice.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

I've taught my kids that guns are dangerous items for ADULT use only, and they are not to be touched.

I don't see anything wrong with doing so...and nor do I see it as setting them up for accidents later. Not any more than telling them not to approach a loose dog, is setting them up to be attacked by a dog. We discuss the why and I control their environment and ensure it is safe. That is what being a parent is.

My kids will not always listen because they are children...my job as the parent is to keep their environment safe, because I am the adult. IMO, in most accidents it's nothing to do with the childs knowledge or lack thereof of firearms...it is the ADULTS failure to provide adequate supervision of the child's environment. I think the same can be said for most abductions...and dog on child attacks for that matter.

 

[Puckstop31]

Good reason to justify that Saiga 12g Ive been wanting. Puck do you train/teach both right and left handed entries for CQB? Reason I ask is I shoot long arms both right and left handed.

Standard military CQB works (generally) in 4 man teams. First man through the door, ALWAYS goes to the left. This reduces the chance of fratricide. Thus, it helps to have a left hander on the point. The 2nd man is the team leader and he has to make the spot on choice to holler "short room" or not. "Short room" means that either the room is devoid of active resistance or is too small to fit 4 guys in. It helps if the leader is a right hander as he needs to go right... I was my team leader and was always 2nd through the door. I tried to mix it up as to who the point man was, you know, to try and spread the risk around... But my man, "dave" was a left hander and a very calm soul in stressful situations. So when we KNEW is was going to be messy, he was on point. But I am straying from ther point here... LOL If you do it right, it should not matter. CQB is all about speed and maximum violence. There is no semi-auto fire in such a situation. Speed....Firepower....Shock Effect win the day in CQB.

Cool deal that you can switch. I can't shoot for nothing left handed. Which is odd as I both bat and play hockey left handed... LOL

 

[RD]

Because i'd rather die than live knowing i took someone else's life.

Not me.

If someone attacks me for no reason, I'll defend myself. I value my life and the lives of my loved ones more than that of an assailant trying to harm me. I'd be horrified if I killed someone, but better to be horrified than dead.

I don't worry about my safety *too* much, I know what places I should avoid now in this town. In Mexico, I'm gonna want all the protection I can get....

My dad has guns. Hunting rifles, a shotgun and some antique pistols, but still. He knows how to use them, I'm learning how to use the handguns and all of us are very careful about gun safety. None of the guns are anywhere NEAR where a child could get them. They're in safes and locking canisters, out of the reach of any kids (even though we have no kids) and pets.

 

[Puckstop31]

if it's drilled into your head to always ALWAYS check the safety, chamber and magazine before doing anything else with it, your chances of accidental deaths decrease.

+1


Treat EVERY gun as if it is loaded... Until you are SURE it is clear. NEVER hand a loaded weapon to another person. ALWAYS clear is BEFORE you do anything else with it.

Basic rules.

 

[GlassOnion]

Also not entirely certain how to check a chamber without accidently firing. I'll get to correcting that when I can afford to take a course.

Grab the slide, pull it back (safety has to be off of course), keep one hand on the grip (but away from the trigger), and the other pulls the slide back. You can check the chamber that way. And make sure there's no magazine.

Also check with your local PD. Sometimes they'll do a citizen police program (or something along those lines) where gun safety is taught. My parents took one for $35 or so (apiece).

It's for an airsoft gun but the locations are correct.

 

[Puckstop31]

Guns don't just go around shooting people and killing people all by themselves. There is always a human pulling that trigger. And it's naive to think that if the guns aren't there, then those people will just decide to change their ways and become an honest law-abiding citizen. Nope. They will just use other weapons that are just at dangerous and deadly.

Gun censorship or outright bans will do absolutely nothing to keep criminals from owning them.....and using them.

Exactly Zoom. As my family is a big hunting family, there were always guns in the house as I was growing up. BUT, they were and are ALWAYS kept unloaded and secure in a gun closet that only my dad has the key to....even to this day. Not to mention that in that gun closet, the guns are high off the ground in racks. And what's neat is that this gun closet was built into the house and is reinforced against break-ins. And we were taught gun safety from an early age. We learned how to respect them for what they are. When my grandfather or dad would clean them, we were always made to watch and learn. We learned to shoot at an early age (around 7 years of age) and we learned exactly what guns do. Again, respect was a huge issue!

Unfortunately, too many people think that by hiding children from them, refusing to teach them about guns, and pretending they dont' exist will keep these kids from ever being curious about them or even knowing about them. In fact, it will do quite the opposite. And these are the kids that either hurt themselves or someone else.

Miakoda... :hail:

You are just totally hitting them out of the park today.

I don't give the :hail: treatment too much.... But I just cannot resist on this one.

Thank you for the great post.

 

[Miakoda]

Miakoda... :hail:

You are just totally hitting them out of the park today.

I don't give the :hail: treatment too much.... But I just cannot resist on this one.

Thank you for the great post.

Why, thank you!

But again, I'm just telling it like I was taught it. We didn't "play" with guns. Guns have a reason for being and a purpose.

However, I do have a pic of me with an SKS out at the Alaska Game Reserve learning how to shoot it. I'll find it and scan it in. My dad has it in a frame that I bought that says, "Daddy's Little Girl."

 

[blue]

Standard military CQB works (generally) in 4 man teams. First man through the door, ALWAYS goes to the left. This reduces the chance of fratricide. Thus, it helps to have a left hander on the point. The 2nd man is the team leader and he has to make the spot on choice to holler "short room" or not. "Short room" means that either the room is devoid of active resistance or is too small to fit 4 guys in. It helps if the leader is a right hander as he needs to go right... I was my team leader and was always 2nd through the door. I tried to mix it up as to who the point man was, you know, to try and spread the risk around... But my man, "dave" was a left hander and a very calm soul in stressful situations. So when we KNEW is was going to be messy, he was on point. But I am straying from ther point here... LOL If you do it right, it should not matter. CQB is all about speed and maximum violence. There is no semi-auto fire in such a situation. Speed....Firepower....Shock Effect win the day in CQB.

Cool deal that you can switch. I can't shoot for nothing left handed. Which is odd as I both bat and play hockey left handed... LOL

Thanks for the info on the CQB. I was thinking more on a single member entry, I should have rembered CQB was a team entry.

I cant do crap left handed other than firing a long arm. Im useless with a handgun lefthanded. Ive skinned my nuckles a few times shooting my AK with the bipod, AKs are made for shooting right handed.

 

[Puckstop31]

Grab the slide, pull it back (safety has to be off of course), keep one hand on the grip (but away from the trigger), and the other pulls the slide back. You can check the chamber that way. And make sure there's no magazine.

Also check with your local PD. Sometimes they'll do a citizen police program (or something along those lines) where gun safety is taught. My parents took one for $35 or so (apiece).

It's for an airsoft gun but the locations are correct.

Excellent... I just want to point out that what you added as a afterthought should be first.

1. Place the weapon on safe.
2. Remove the magazine.
3. Lock slide/bolt to the rear.
4. Observe chamber to ensure no ammuntion is present.
5. Slide bolt/slide forward.
6. Place weapon on fire.
7. Point in safe direction.
8. Pull trigger.
9. Weapon is now safe.

 

[blue]

+1


Treat EVERY gun as if it is loaded... Until you are SURE it is clear. NEVER hand a loaded weapon to another person. ALWAYS clear is BEFORE you do anything else with it.

Basic rules.

First thing I was taught about firearm safety. Even if the previous person cleared the weapon, I clear it when I take posession of it.

 

[sparks19]

I've taught my kids that guns are dangerous items for ADULT use only, and they are not to be touched.

I don't see anything wrong with doing so...and nor do I see it as setting them up for accidents later. Not any more than telling them not to approach a loose dog, is setting them up to be attacked by a dog. We discuss the why and I control their environment and ensure it is safe. That is what being a parent is.

My kids will not always listen because they are children...my job as the parent is to keep their environment safe, because I am the adult. IMO, in most accidents it's nothing to do with the childs knowledge or lack thereof of firearms...it is the ADULTS failure to provide adequate supervision of the child's environment. I think the same can be said for most abductions...and dog on child attacks for that matter.

Well that is all well in good within your home where they won't ever encounter guns... but perhaps they go over to a friends house and they do have guns.... your child becomes curious. I would much rather teach my child HOW a gun works and what it REALLY does in the off chance they ever encounter a gun. I don't want ot just tell them "guns are bad.... don't touch them." Making it taboo increases curiousity.... teach them to RESPECT it. I don't want to just say to Hannah "don't do it" and that be that and expect her to never encounter a gun... I would rather take the chance that she might encounter a gun but when she does she will understand it and respect it for what it is.

this really isn't a great comparison but... kids who are educated and with parents that are open and honest about sex and what can happen with sex are probably less likely to just jump into the sack without thinking about protection or other things... if you just tell a kid "sex is bad... don't do it" they aren't given the tools they need to help them if they DO encounter sex.

and both can kill.

 

[Puckstop31]

Why, thank you!

But again, I'm just telling it like I was taught it. We didn't "play" with guns. Guns have a reason for being and a purpose.

However, I do have a pic of me with an SKS out at the Alaska Game Reserve learning how to shoot it. I'll find it and scan it in. My dad has it in a frame that I bought that says, "Daddy's Little Girl."

Welcome!!!!

I hope I get a pic like that of Hannah and I someday. But it will be a FAL, not an AK. LOL

 

[blue]

THats the attitude Sparks.

 

[blue]

I like my AKs, how does the reliability compare between the FAL and the AK?

 

[Puckstop31]

Thanks for the info on the CQB. I was thinking more on a single member entry, I should have rembered CQB was a team entry.

I cant do crap left handed other than firing a long arm. Im useless with a handgun lefthanded. Ive skinned my nuckles a few times shooting my AK with the bipod, AKs are made for shooting right handed.

Totally... Single man CQB can only be successful on defence. Or if you are a CIA guy... or Rambo.

Oouch... Any AK rifle, lefty, without a brass catcher... OUCH.

 

[Puckstop31]

I like my AKs, how does the reliability compare between the FAL and the AK?

Well, FAL's are a closed bolt, gas piston rifle. The big thing is FALs and AKs do not have the recoil spring in he stock. Recoil spring failure/reliability is why , IMHO, most Stoner rifles (m-16 style) fail in harsh conditions.

I don't think it is actually called the recoil spring, but I am talking about that big spring that goesinto the stock on a M-16 style rifle. Recoils springs are a M-9 thing...

All in all... A FAL is a expensive version of a AK... And fires more powerful ammo. 7.62 x 58 (I think, but better than 39). FULL NATO 7.62.