some gun statistics:

[milos_mommy]

so not to hijack melissacato's thread:

333 documented hunting accidents in illinois 2004/2005

63 involved children under 18
34 resulted in injury to children under 18
29 were fatal to children under 18

135/333 accidents were fatal



In 2004, there were in the US:

16,750 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths), 11,624 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths), 649 unintentional shootings, 311 from legal intervention and 235 from undetermined intent (4% of all U.S gun deaths combined).

A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present. -Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)

Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:
373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


Taxpayers pay more than 85% of the medical cost for treatment of firearm-related injuries.- Martin M, et al. "The Cost of Hospitalization for Firearm Injuries." JAMA. Vol 260, November 25, 1998, pp 3048, and Ordog et al. "Hospital Costs of Firearm Injuries." Abstract. Journal of Trauma. February 1995, p1)


Out of 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths in children under the age of 15 occurred in the united states.

As of 1994, 44 million Americans owned more than 192 million firearms, 65 million of which were handguns. Although there were enough guns to have provided every U.S. adult with one, only 25% of adults owned firearms. Seventy-four percent (74%) of gun owners possessed two or more firearms.
- National Institute of Justice, May 1997

Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War. In 2003, the total number of people killed by guns in the United States was 30,136.
- Based on data from CDC National Center for Health Statistics WISQARS online data collection system, 2006.

Everyday in the United States, 8 young Americans ages 19 and under are killed in gun homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings. For every child killed by a gun, four more are wounded.

32,436 deaths resulted from firearm-related injuries, making such injuries the second leading cause of injury mortality in the United States after motor-vehicle-related incidents (1). Also in 1997, an estimated 64,207 persons sustained nonfatal firearm-related injuries and were treated in U.S. hospital emergency departments (EDs); approximately 40% required inpatient hospital care.

The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."
International Correlation between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.'

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)


In 2000, 75,685 people suffered non-fatal firearm gunshot injuries. (SOURCE: Federal Bureau of Investigation. Uniform Crime Reports for the United States: Crime in the United States 2000: Uniform Crime Reports. Washington, D.C: U.S. Department of Justice; 2001.)

Between 1980 & 1996 76 people in Oregon were killed by animal attacks. 41 deaths caused by horses, bees wasps and spiders caused 13, cows and bulls caused 9 and domestic dogs caused 5. 1 sheep, 1 mule, 1 pet buffalo, 1 pet lion, and an infant killed by a pet ferret. The only wildlife-related death were a car collision with a black tailed deer and one fatal rattlesnake bite. However, between 1990 & 1994, 67 people were injured and 14 were killed in hunting accidents.

 

[Puckstop31]

Some counter points...

Firearm Safety In America 2007

The number of privately owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high, and rises by about 4.5 million per year.1 Meanwhile, the nation’s violent crime rate has decreased 38% since 1991.2 Below, statistics from 1981 forward are from the National Center for Health Statistics,3 while those prior to 1981 are from the National Safety Council.4 The NCHS’ annual numbers, rates and trends of common accidents and selected other causes of death, for the U.S., each state, and the District of Columbia, are available on the NRA-ILA website in spreadsheet format.5

Firearm accident deaths have been decreasing for decades. Since 1930, their annual number has decreased 80%, while the U.S. population has more than doubled and the number of firearms has quintupled. Among children, such deaths have decreased 89% since 1975.
Firearm accident deaths are at an all-time annual low, while the U.S. population is at an all-time high. Therefore, the firearm accident death rate is at an all-time annual low, 0.2 per 100,000 population, down 94% since the all-time high in 1904.
Today, the odds are a million to one, against a child in the U.S. dying in a firearm accident.
Firearms are involved in 0.6% of accidental deaths nationally. Most accidental deaths involve, or are due to, motor vehicles (39%), poisoning (18%), falls (16%), suffocation (5%), drowning (2.9%), fires (2.8%), medical mistakes (2.2%), environmental factors (1.2%), and bicycles and tricycles (0.7%). Among children: motor vehicles (45%), suffocation (18%), drowning (14%), fires (9%), bicycles and tricycles (2.4%), falls (2%), poisoning (1.6%),environmental factors (1.5%), and medical mistakes (0.8%).
Education decreases accidents. Voluntary firearms safety training, not government intrusion, has decreased firearms accidents. NRA firearm safety programs are conducted by more than 51,000 NRA Certified Instructors nationwide. Youngsters learn firearm safety in NRA programs offered through civic groups such as the Boy Scouts, Jaycees, the American Legion, and schools.6 NRA’s Eddie Eagle GunSafe program teaches children pre-K through 6th grade that if they see a firearm without supervision, they should “STOP! Don’t Touch. Leave The Area. Tell An Adult.†Since 1988, the program has been used by 25,000 schools, civic groups, and law enforcement agencies to reach more than 20 million children.7

The “cars and guns†myth. “Gun control†supporters claim that driver licensing and auto registration caused motor vehicle accident deaths to decline between 1968-1991, and that gun registration and gun owner licensing would reduce gun accidents. They ask, “We register drivers and license cars, so why not guns and gun owners?â€

Motor vehicle registration and driver licensing laws were not imposed to reduce, and did not reduce, accidents. Most such laws were imposed between the world wars, but motor vehicle accident deaths increased sharply after 1930 and didn’t begin declining until 1970. Despite more regulation of vehicles and drivers, vehicle accident deaths have increased 6% in the last decade.

Between 1968-1991, the years cited by the anti-gunners, the motor vehicle accident death rate dropped only 37% with vehicle registration and driver licensing, while the firearm accident death rate dropped 50% without gun registration and gun owner licensing. The anti-gunners want registration and licensing not for safety, but to erect the record-keeping apparatus necessary to make confiscation of privately owned firearms achievable in the future. The first leader of Handgun Control, Inc. (since renamed Brady Campaign) said that registration was the second step in the group’s three-step plan for the confiscation of all handguns.8

Moreover, the purchase and ownership of arms is a right protected by the constitution, whereas operating a vehicle on public roads is a privilege. A license and registration are not required to merely own a vehicle or operate it on private property, only to do so on public roads. Similarly, a license and permit are not typically required to buy or own a gun, or to keep a gun at home, but are usually required when hunting or carrying a gun for protection in public places.

Lies about children and guns. Brady Campaign and Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) have claimed that 12 children die from gun accidents every day, and 2008 presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has claimed that 13 children are killed with guns every day. The HELP (Handgun Epidemic Lowering Plan) Network (which is dedicated to “changing society’s attitude toward guns so that it becomes socially unacceptable for private citizens to have handgunsâ€) put the figure at “an average of 9 children†daily. Other “gun control†advocates have varyingly claimed 14 per day (or 5,000 yearly or one every 90 seconds). Some count anyone under the age of 24 as a “child,†to get even higher numbers.9 Anti-gunners add the relatively small number of firearm-related deaths among children to the much larger number of deaths among juveniles and young adults, and dishonestly call the total “children.†In fact, on average there is just under one firearm-related death among children per day, including one accidental death every 5.8 days.

“Gun control†supporters point to a study claiming that so-called “Child Access Prevention†(CAP) laws (which make it a crime, under some circumstances, to leave a gun accessible to a child who obtains and misuses it), imposed in 12 states between 1989-1993, decreased fatal firearm accidents among children.10 The study was produced by people from the Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Center, a group active in the HELP Network. The study’s flaws: Firearm accident deaths among children began declining in the mid-1970s, not in 1989, when “CAP†laws were first imposed. Also, such accidents have decreased nationwide, not only in “CAP†states. And, also in 1989, NRA’s Eddie Eagle GunSafe Program was introduced nationwide.

1. See BATFE, “Annual Firearm Manufacturers and Export Reports†( www.atf.gov/firearms/stats/index.htm).

2. FBI, Crime in the United States 2006 (www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/index.html) and BJS (http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/).

3. See www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars or www.wonder.cdc.gov/ .

4. Available at www.nsc.org/ .

5. See www.nraila.org/Issues .

6. For more on NRA training programs, visit www.nrahq.org/ (click “Education and Trainingâ€) or call 703-267-1500.

7. For more on the Eddie Eagle program, visit www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/ or call 800-231-0752.

8. Pete Shields, quoted in The New Yorker, “A Reporter At Large: Handguns,†July 26, 1976.

9. NRA-ILA “Not 12 Per Day†fact sheet, www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=21 .

10. Journal of the American Medical Association, Oct. 1, 1997.

 

[Puckstop31]

But you know what? All the statistics in the world will not change the UNALIENABLE right I have to protect myself. The 2nd Amendment does not GRANT a right, it affirms that unalienable right.

LIFE....LIBERTY.... Two of the unalienable rights spoken of in our Declaration of Independance. In the moment of truth, you can only rely on yourself.

Gun bans will only create MORE victims. That and remove the only tool we have to protect ourselves from tyranny.

But I am sure you would give that up, just to FEEL safe, eh? A person who is willing to sacrifice a little liberty for a little security, deserves nor shall have either.

 

[milos_mommy]

Today, the odds are a million to one, against a child in the U.S. dying in a firearm accident.

i'm pretty sure that's not correct. I think it's more like 24/100,000. that could be injuries, though.


also, i like the points you made about education. i'm not for banning guns. i'm simply for monitoring them. i think there should be stricter requirements and background checks on gun ownership, more accessible education on gun safety.

Puckstop, here's a question. When Hannah is older, do you plan on taking her to gun safety classes? Do you plan on locking up your guns once she's a little older? Do you plan on locking them up when she has friends over?

Here's a question for anyone who is anti-gun control. If you are home alone, and a stranger enters your house, would you shoot? What if they're not threatening? Simply stealing? Would it depend on whether or not they were obviously armed?

 

[Dekka]

Do you not find it sad that you need to have "an undeniable right" to protect your family from your own country men?

I find it interesting that we as Canadians don't feel the need to protect ourselves the same way our neighbours to the south do. Yes there is crime, and yes there are murders, but no where to the same levels as south of us. (even taking into account pop size diffs)

Personally I wouldn't want to carry a gun unless I was a police officer (no interest there) or in the military (did look very seriously at the military when I came out of HS) But then I don't feel threatened in my own home, or when visiting Toronto.

 

[milos_mommy]

But I am sure you would give that up, just to FEEL safe, eh? A person who is willing to sacrifice a little liberty for a little security, deserves nor shall have either.

i feel both secure and liberated without a gun in my hands.

when i am around a person who has a gun, i do not feel secure. in my opinion, being able to feel secure is a liberty.

 

[milos_mommy]

Do you not find it sad that you need to have "an undeniable right" to protect your family from your own country men?

i do. and i also find it strange, because i sure as hell don't feel that need.

 

[sparks19]

Do you not find it sad that you need to have "an undeniable right" to protect your family from your own country men?

I find it interesting that we as Canadians don't feel the need to protect ourselves the same way our neighbours to the south do. Yes there is crime, and yes there are murders, but no where to the same levels as south of us. (even taking into account pop size diffs)

Personally I wouldn't want to carry a gun unless I was a police officer (no interest there) or in the military (did look very seriously at the military when I came out of HS) But then I don't feel threatened in my own home, or when visiting Toronto.

Well you must live in the sunshiny happy part of Canada....

I did not feel any safer there than I do here. I would not ever leave my doors unlocked back home.


ETA: I sure don't feel safe anywhere in Toronto. I hate that city. I feel a lot safer walking around the town I live in now at night then I ever feel walking around in Toronto in the day time.
perhaps YOU didn't feel the need to protect yourself but many Canadians do feel that need.... and I bet most people who didn't feel the need to protect themselves changed their tune if they became the victim of crime....

Just out of curiousity... what would you do if someone broke into your home and intended to do you harm? or do harm to a member of your family? Call the police and wait it out?

 

[Dekka]

I do know a few times I have been driving through the US I feel *more* vulnerable because any crazy on the street could be carrying. And the last time I went south for any length of time I was staying in Lexington KY (small town/city right?) there were 3 un realted shootings (murders) It shocked us, not so much that it happended, but that no one acted like it was a big deal.

 

[Dekka]

Well as I live in an area where most people do not lock their doors..EVER, so ya I guess I do live in a happy part. But if someone comes into my house inteding me harm..well as I know they aren't likely to be carrying a hand gun I guess I will just have to improvise. If I did feel the need to protect myself I think I would carry something less than lethal. Then if heaven forbid it got into the 'wrong' hands no one would die by my fault.

I, personally, don't know of any Canadians who wish they could carry a hand gun. Pretty much everyone I know feels about the same as me.

Just a note..there are guns in this house. For hunting, hubby has a hunting license. But if someone came in, honestly the last thing I would think of would be a gun. (knives, the metal horse door stop..now that would make a serious projectile )

I guess I just don't feel threatened. I was sexually assaulted as a 13 year old. Now if he had had a gun, maybe it would have been rape. (tho a knife would have been as effective in scaring a young girl) But I don't live in fear. Life is to short as it is, to be constantly having to look over my shoulder all the time in my own community. If I did feel that threatened I would likely move. Not add to the tension and violence.

 

[Puckstop31]

also, i like the points you made about education. i'm not for banning guns. i'm simply for monitoring them. i think there should be stricter requirements and background checks on gun ownership, more accessible education on gun safety.

That is a VERY slippery slope. The laws currently in place are more than enough, they simply need to be enforced.

How much more strict should they be? Do you even know what is currently in place?

But, I would be all for a gun safety class being part of High School requirements.

Puckstop, here's a question. When Hannah is older, do you plan on taking her to gun safety classes? Do you plan on locking up your guns once she's a little older? Do you plan on locking them up when she has friends over?

No. I am going to teach her.

No. Because I am going to teach her, just like my father did to me. I respected guns for what they were from a VERY young age.

Yes and No. My hunting weapons will be secured. My home defence weapons will be accessible. Because I know Tanya is willing and able to use them if necessary and Hannah will too, if she is willing and able. If she is not, she will at least know that they are NOT toys.

Here's a question for anyone who is anti-gun control. If you are home alone, and a stranger enters your house, would you shoot? What if they're not threatening? Simply stealing? Would it depend on whether or not they were obviously armed?

Absolutley YES. If the intruder is obviously armed, he/she is dead. If they are not obviously armed they will get ONE vocal warning, while the weapon is locked, loaded and pointed at them. IF they do not immediatley retreat, they are dead.

I do not care WHY they are in my home. How am I to know their intentions? And frankly, I don't care. I will NEVER take ANY risk of them harming my family. EVER. THEY made the choice to break into my home, I will make the choice to protect my family and my property.

Action = Consequence.

 

[Puckstop31]

I find it interesting that we as Canadians don't feel the need to protect ourselves the same way our neighbours to the south do.

I beg to differ... I know a few Canadians who think it is horrible that the government does not trust their law abiding citizens enough to allow them to protect themselves.

Personally I wouldn't want to carry a gun unless I was a police officer (no interest there) or in the military (did look very seriously at the military when I came out of HS) But then I don't feel threatened in my own home, or when visiting Toronto.

That is totally fine... But that is your choice to take that risk. I choose differently.

 

[sparks19]

Well as I live in an area where most people do not lock their doors..EVER, so ya I guess I do live in a happy part. But if someone comes into my house inteding me harm..well as I know they aren't likely to be carrying a hand gun I guess I will just have to improvise. If I did feel the need to protect myself I think I would carry something less than lethal. Then if heaven forbid it got into the 'wrong' hands no one would die by my fault.

I, personally, don't know of any Canadians who wish they could carry a hand gun. Pretty much everyone I know feels about the same as me.

Just a note..there are guns in this house. For hunting, hubby has a hunting license. But if someone came in, honestly the last thing I would think of would be a gun. (knives, the metal horse door stop..now that would make a serious projectile )

I guess I just don't feel threatened. I was sexually assaulted as a 13 year old. Now if he had had a gun, maybe it would have been rape. (tho a knife would have been as effective in scaring a young girl) But I don't live in fear. Life is to short as it is, to be constantly having to look over my shoulder all the time in my own community. If I did feel that threatened I would likely move. Not add to the tension and violence.

HUGE misconception.... Handguns arent available to law abiding citizens....criminals dont abide by that law.... they sure don't get their guns legally. Amazing that the gun crime you do hear about is with handguns and not hunting rifles.... so dont think that just because you can't get them that it means they dont have them.

and please don't think that because we can use guns for protection that we walk around in fear everyday and are always looking over our shoulders. We live a very nice and peaceful exsistence here in our town.... but it is nice to know that if ever we do need to defend our home and our daughter from a criminal... we CAN.

 

[Puckstop31]

i feel both secure and liberated without a gun in my hands.

when i am around a person who has a gun, i do not feel secure. in my opinion, being able to feel secure is a liberty.

You obviously suffer from Hoplophobia. Would you feel insecure around me, knowing I am carrying? Knowing that I am well trained and very capable in their use? Knowing that I would willing risk my life to protect yours if I was witness to you being assaulted?

 

[Dekka]

yep, but it does make it easier to catch the criminals. IF you are carrying a hand gun, you are a criminal..you can be stopped BEFORE you kill someone. Lets prevent, instead of having to treat a problem.

I am sure there are some Canadians who feel that way. Same as there are some Americans who feel different to you. I just said I don't know of any.

And if that is so true why do countries with less guns have less gun crime?

 

[sparks19]

You obviously suffer from Hoplophobia. Would you feel insecure around me, knowing I am carrying? Knowing that I am well trained and very capable in their use? Knowing that I would willing risk my life to protect yours if I was witness to you being assaulted?

Well didn't you know that owning a gun makes you crazy and you are more likely to become a murderer

I'm scared lol

 

[SeniorPetLover]

I took the hunter safety course while I was in grade school...it was part of the curriculum. We were all taught how to safely handle a gun and passing the course earned us our FOID cards. The class was taught in the school cafeteria WITH guns. The number of school shootings=0. It wasn't even thought of. That was a couple of decades ago...today, you cannot even take a nail file onto school property. My sister is a middle school principal...there is much more violence today, even with the restrictions, than there ever was back then...why is that? My Dad was military and served in Korea. He taught us kids the value of life and he also taught us to be responsible in handling any weapons because he knew first hand what it was like to take a life and it was never anything that he took lightly...we were also taught to clean and care for the guns, so we never took them out to "fart" around with because we had to completely disassemble them for a complete cleaning anytime we fired one...it didn't take me long to figure out that I only wanted to use one when it was necessary...mind you, I do live in a very rural area and a gun is as much of a staple in a household as flour. I guess my point is, we were never denied access, we were taught responsibility and we were held accountable for ANY poor judgement. We knew right from wrong and there was never a question of what would happen if we decided to do wrong. We were in trouble at home if we got in trouble at school REGARDLESS of whether or not we deserved to be BECAUSE our teachers were our elders and they commanded respect. Period. Rules were not simply guidelines...they were boundaries. There was a penalty for crossing them. Was it always fair? No, but neither is life. We just had to learn to get used to it. I got many a whipping...never a beating, but enough to know that I didn't want to repeat the behavior that got me in that situation...today, discipline is a joke...teachers and administrators get very little parental support and they live in fear. Parents who try to use common sense in raising their children are considered to be too strict or are reported to family services...kids today do not understand accountability, heck, half the adults don't...these are fundemantal problems causing surges in violence...my parents may have spanked me once in a while and they may have told me to keep quiet and not sass them, but in doing so, they taught me values like respect, gratitude, responsibility and accountability. They drove home the point that for every decision I make, there is a reprecussion...good decisions bring good reprecussions and bad ones...well, bad ones mean punishment and restitution. I didn't always agree with their views, but I was obedient and respectful. They did not hamper my creativity by telling me to be quiet...as I look back, I am grateful that they directed me as they did. I am pretty proud of the way that I turned out and I have raised my own daughter in the same way. I value my right to keep and bear arms and I don't think that taking my rights away is going to do anything to rein in a society that is morally inept. It will do nothing to reduce crime or stop senseless murders. Instead, let's mandate parenting...let's teach kids what my parents taught me and let's stop trying to over-protect their delicate egos...all it has done is create a bunch monsters with a sense of entitlement...stepping off soap box now...

 

[sparks19]

yep, but it does make it easier to catch the criminals. IF you are carrying a hand gun, you are a criminal..you can be stopped BEFORE you kill someone. Lets prevent, instead of having to treat a problem.

I am sure there are some Canadians who feel that way. Same as there are some Americans who feel different to you. I just said I don't know of any.

And if that is so true why do countries with less guns have less gun crime?

and yet the crime rate... violent crime rate has been on the rise in Ontario.... gun crime has been on the rise in Ontario.

how does it make it easier to catch them?

 

[HoundedByHounds]

Just out of curiousity... what would you do if someone broke into your home and intended to do you harm? or do harm to a member of your family? Call the police and wait it out?

This scenario doesn't inspire me to want a gun in my home.

Frying pan...pencil...hammer...knife...whatever is handy.....karate...jujitsu...mace....large dog...security alarms...neighborhood watch....picking a good neighborhood...giving in giving what they want...varying your schedule...being aware of your surroundings...all options/ideas I find much more realistic, than having a gun in my home.

Life is not 100% and gun or no gun if the BTK killer-type, wanted you, he'd have you...because the nature of true evil is to know your target....and someone who broke in specifically to do something to you, likely knows your habits very well...and would pick the best time for themselves. Your gun would do you very little good when he grabbed you in the shower....or on the way from your car to the house...or any of those million times a day when you aren't thinking "someone could harm me...right now...."

If you thnk about things like that too long...one could get a real paranoia. I am aware of possibilities...but try not to be too paranoid about them.

 

[Beagleluver5463]

Encore.