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- Thread starter Juicy
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What most people don't realize, is that our legal system largely uses standards of insanity based on our knowledge and understanding of mental health and brain function from the 1920s.
The kindest thing for someone like Andrea Yates will be for her to never regain any sort of sanity. If justice were to be done, her husband and doctors who refused to acknowledge her worsening mental health after each pregnancy would be held to some standard of responsibility in the deaths of the children and the destruction of her mind and life.
The kindest thing for someone like Andrea Yates will be for her to never regain any sort of sanity. If justice were to be done, her husband and doctors who refused to acknowledge her worsening mental health after each pregnancy would be held to some standard of responsibility in the deaths of the children and the destruction of her mind and life.
I think its diffrent in diffrent areas and I just heard they are trying to change it so its not only universal but has a point. They don't take a persons psychiatric illness and say they are insane,they go through a whole seperate process inviolving how they were thinking during the crime and its really a big mess. If you look at a schizo patient they are going to have problems no matter what when off meds,but if they say that guy drove to the barn and got the gun then he had to be in sound mind at the time. Its screwy.
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i think if a person gets off a locked unit they should be considered insane for whatever happens afterward,also if a perosn has been commited and is having a relapse it needs taken inot consideration. Of course it can be argued that some stopped taking meds and that was a conscious choice,I'm not sure about how I feel on that. I think they should be on meds but after a point they realize how bad those meds are for them too.
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i think if a person gets off a locked unit they should be considered insane for whatever happens afterward,also if a perosn has been commited and is having a relapse it needs taken inot consideration. Of course it can be argued that some stopped taking meds and that was a conscious choice,I'm not sure about how I feel on that. I think they should be on meds but after a point they realize how bad those meds are for them too.
I did not know that about the legal system using 1920's data. Interesting.
And you are right Renee. I really think she doesn't or can't grasp what she did, and I hope she never can. How can you judge someone like that?
It's so sad that people around her allowed her to go through it all. And I agree, doctors and husband <especially should be held accountable to some degree for what happened to those poor babies.
And you are right Renee. I really think she doesn't or can't grasp what she did, and I hope she never can. How can you judge someone like that?
It's so sad that people around her allowed her to go through it all. And I agree, doctors and husband <especially should be held accountable to some degree for what happened to those poor babies.
Sounds alot like what they are doing to Bernardo up here. He sits in his cell all day. All he has is a bed, a toilet, and a little stand with a tv on it so he can see what is going on in the outside world. (I don't agree with this). He doesn't even come out of his cell to eat. There is a little tiny opening in the bars and that allows the guards to pass him his food and he just takes it. He has to think about what he did 24/7.
Community (or California) Revolution In Progress.......orginially what crip stood for. Later changed to Community Resources for an Independent People
According to many of the original members of the gang, it was initially started as a means to keep the streets safe, reducing violence and police brutality. Williams said "we started out—at least my intent was to, in a sense—address all of the so-called neighboring gangs in the area and to put, in a sense—I thought I can cleanse the neighborhood of all these, you know, marauding gangs. But I was totally wrong. And eventually, we morphed into the monster we were addressing."[1] According to one version, the original name of the gang was the word Cribs from the first name of the gang, the Avenue Babies, and a reference to their youthfulness. The name Crips was first introduced in the Los Angeles Sentinel in a description by crime victims of young men with canes, as if they were crippled. The name stuck.
After being released from solitary confinement, Williams gained world-wide attention and praise for his work in prison, including the publication of children's books advocating non-violence and alternatives to gangs, an autobiography, and Redemption: The Stan Tookie Williams Story a Hollywood movie honoring him, starring Jamie Foxx. In 1997, Williams wrote an apology, posted on his website, for his role in creating the Crips.[19] In 2004, he helped broker a peace agreement (called the Tookie Protocol For Peace) for what had been one of the deadliest and infamous gang wars in the country, between the Bloods and the Crips, in both the state of California and the city of Newark, New Jersey. Williams received a letter from President George W. Bush commending him for his social activism.[20] While the letter is cited by activists seeking to free Williams, 267,000 "Call To Service Awards" were sent out. Williams' award was nominated by a minister from West Monroe, Louisiana, named William A. Harrison.
"Twenty-five years ago when I created the Crips youth gang with Raymond Lee Washington in South Central Los Angeles, I never imagined Crips membership would one day spread throughout California, would spread to much of the rest of the nation and to cities in South Africa, where Crips copycat gangs have formed. I also didn't expect the Crips to end up ruining the lives of so many young people, especially young black men who have hurt other young black men. Raymond was murdered in 1979. But if he were here, I believe he would be as troubled as I am by the Crips legacy.
So today I apologize to you all -- the children of America and South Africa -- who must cope every day with dangerous street gangs. I no longer participate in the so-called gangster lifestyle, and I deeply regret that I ever did.
As a contribution to the struggle to end child-on-child brutality and black-on-black brutality, I have written the Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children's book series. My goal is to reach as many young minds as possible to warn you about the perils of a gang lifestyle.
I am no longer "dys-educated" (disease educated). I am no longer part of the problem. Thanks to the Almighty, I am no longer sleepwalking through life.
I pray that one day my apology will be accepted. I also pray that your suffering, caused by gang violence, will soon come to an end as more gang members wake up and stop hurting themselves and others.
I vow to spend the rest of my life working toward solutions.
Amani (Peace),
Stanley "Tookie" Williams, Surviving Crips Co-Founder, April 13, 1997"
Williams was reportedly nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize every year from 2001 to 2005; nominations came from Mario Fehr, a member of the Swiss Parliament [23]; four times by Notre Dame de Namur University Philosophy and Religion Professor Phil Gasper [24]; William Keach, a Brown University Professor of English Literature, nominated Williams for the Nobel Prize in Literature.[25] Williams' critics have argued that these nominations were irrelevant to his case, as anyone can be nominated for the prize by an eligible party; there is no "pre-selection" process for the nomination.
The Los Angeles Police Department, the Los Angeles County District Attorney, and other law enforcement doubt that Williams had reformed, saying that he refused to divulge information on other gang members, or debrief officials on the tactics and communication methods that gangs use. Williams said he didn't want to be a "snitch."
Many citizens gathered signatures to grant Williams clemency. Over 68,000 people signed online petitions calling for Schwarzenegger to commute the death sentence. Others who campaigned against the execution included celebrities Jamie Foxx, Snoop Dogg, Elliott Gould, Danny Glover, Laurence Fishburne, Ted Danson, William Baldwin, Bob Saget, Mike Farrell, Harry Belafonte, Jessica Simpson, Edward Asner, Jackson Browne, Russell Crowe, Richard Dreyfuss, Nick Carter, Gabriel Byrne, Bianca Jagger; Judge Greg Mathis; politicians Tom Hayden, Mario Cuomo, and Bill Rosendahl; Nobel laureates Desmond Tutu, Mairead Corrigan Maguire; and the Reverend Jesse Jackson.
According to many of the original members of the gang, it was initially started as a means to keep the streets safe, reducing violence and police brutality. Williams said "we started out—at least my intent was to, in a sense—address all of the so-called neighboring gangs in the area and to put, in a sense—I thought I can cleanse the neighborhood of all these, you know, marauding gangs. But I was totally wrong. And eventually, we morphed into the monster we were addressing."[1] According to one version, the original name of the gang was the word Cribs from the first name of the gang, the Avenue Babies, and a reference to their youthfulness. The name Crips was first introduced in the Los Angeles Sentinel in a description by crime victims of young men with canes, as if they were crippled. The name stuck.
After being released from solitary confinement, Williams gained world-wide attention and praise for his work in prison, including the publication of children's books advocating non-violence and alternatives to gangs, an autobiography, and Redemption: The Stan Tookie Williams Story a Hollywood movie honoring him, starring Jamie Foxx. In 1997, Williams wrote an apology, posted on his website, for his role in creating the Crips.[19] In 2004, he helped broker a peace agreement (called the Tookie Protocol For Peace) for what had been one of the deadliest and infamous gang wars in the country, between the Bloods and the Crips, in both the state of California and the city of Newark, New Jersey. Williams received a letter from President George W. Bush commending him for his social activism.[20] While the letter is cited by activists seeking to free Williams, 267,000 "Call To Service Awards" were sent out. Williams' award was nominated by a minister from West Monroe, Louisiana, named William A. Harrison.
"Twenty-five years ago when I created the Crips youth gang with Raymond Lee Washington in South Central Los Angeles, I never imagined Crips membership would one day spread throughout California, would spread to much of the rest of the nation and to cities in South Africa, where Crips copycat gangs have formed. I also didn't expect the Crips to end up ruining the lives of so many young people, especially young black men who have hurt other young black men. Raymond was murdered in 1979. But if he were here, I believe he would be as troubled as I am by the Crips legacy.
So today I apologize to you all -- the children of America and South Africa -- who must cope every day with dangerous street gangs. I no longer participate in the so-called gangster lifestyle, and I deeply regret that I ever did.
As a contribution to the struggle to end child-on-child brutality and black-on-black brutality, I have written the Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children's book series. My goal is to reach as many young minds as possible to warn you about the perils of a gang lifestyle.
I am no longer "dys-educated" (disease educated). I am no longer part of the problem. Thanks to the Almighty, I am no longer sleepwalking through life.
I pray that one day my apology will be accepted. I also pray that your suffering, caused by gang violence, will soon come to an end as more gang members wake up and stop hurting themselves and others.
I vow to spend the rest of my life working toward solutions.
Amani (Peace),
Stanley "Tookie" Williams, Surviving Crips Co-Founder, April 13, 1997"
Williams was reportedly nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize every year from 2001 to 2005; nominations came from Mario Fehr, a member of the Swiss Parliament [23]; four times by Notre Dame de Namur University Philosophy and Religion Professor Phil Gasper [24]; William Keach, a Brown University Professor of English Literature, nominated Williams for the Nobel Prize in Literature.[25] Williams' critics have argued that these nominations were irrelevant to his case, as anyone can be nominated for the prize by an eligible party; there is no "pre-selection" process for the nomination.
The Los Angeles Police Department, the Los Angeles County District Attorney, and other law enforcement doubt that Williams had reformed, saying that he refused to divulge information on other gang members, or debrief officials on the tactics and communication methods that gangs use. Williams said he didn't want to be a "snitch."
Many citizens gathered signatures to grant Williams clemency. Over 68,000 people signed online petitions calling for Schwarzenegger to commute the death sentence. Others who campaigned against the execution included celebrities Jamie Foxx, Snoop Dogg, Elliott Gould, Danny Glover, Laurence Fishburne, Ted Danson, William Baldwin, Bob Saget, Mike Farrell, Harry Belafonte, Jessica Simpson, Edward Asner, Jackson Browne, Russell Crowe, Richard Dreyfuss, Nick Carter, Gabriel Byrne, Bianca Jagger; Judge Greg Mathis; politicians Tom Hayden, Mario Cuomo, and Bill Rosendahl; Nobel laureates Desmond Tutu, Mairead Corrigan Maguire; and the Reverend Jesse Jackson.
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Do you think he really regrets what he did? I highly doubt it. he probably thinks about it and gets off on it everyday. He is a sick f*ck. Same with homolka that twisted b*tch. she should still be locked up.
I say they put bernardo into general population with the REST of the inmates and let them deal with him.
Orion I agree
Not unlike the "cruel, inhuman and degrading" way Tookie killed his victims. You seem to always miss that point.
Also, he WAS proven guilty in a court of law.
What about his victims? Or the people murdered because of the "way of life" he fathered?
Innocent? Yeah, like some 26 year old convienience store clerk, eh?
Only because it is not applied in a timely manner. When a death sentence is handed down, they condemed should have a SPEEDY but fair appeals process. If they are truely guilty, the setence should be carried out as rapidly as possible.
Also, he WAS proven guilty in a court of law.
What about his victims? Or the people murdered because of the "way of life" he fathered?
Innocent? Yeah, like some 26 year old convienience store clerk, eh?
Only because it is not applied in a timely manner. When a death sentence is handed down, they condemed should have a SPEEDY but fair appeals process. If they are truely guilty, the setence should be carried out as rapidly as possible.
i actually for a second (i have been reading more about the death penalty and now am really on the fence about it...i used to be all for it...) was thinking that this dude should been spared...UNTIL i saw that he was not admitting it...
i dont know much about it, but that right there...that was enough. Had he been actively trying to prove his innocence, or been sorry for what he did, then i may have said that htey shoulda let him live.
i think the death penalty should ONLY be carried out if it is 1000000% that they are not killing an innocent man. unless he is black. (DUDE, I AM JUST KIDDING!!!!!) Eyewittnesses, and being proven guilty in the court dont really mean much all the time...ESPECIALLY eyewitnesses.,...they are sooo wrong like 99% of the time (ok, i made up that statistic)...but yeah. Oh, and the electic chair...no, that is soooo WRONG - especially after watching the green mile, lol
i dont know much about it, but that right there...that was enough. Had he been actively trying to prove his innocence, or been sorry for what he did, then i may have said that htey shoulda let him live.
i think the death penalty should ONLY be carried out if it is 1000000% that they are not killing an innocent man. unless he is black. (DUDE, I AM JUST KIDDING!!!!!) Eyewittnesses, and being proven guilty in the court dont really mean much all the time...ESPECIALLY eyewitnesses.,...they are sooo wrong like 99% of the time (ok, i made up that statistic)...but yeah. Oh, and the electic chair...no, that is soooo WRONG - especially after watching the green mile, lol
Juicy, no one is making it a racial discussion except you.
And he lost his right to live because he committed a crime he took away 4 peoples right to live. I dont see any racial bias in that.
Also when you post a bunch of gibberish - no one reads it because it is TLDR (too long didnt read), and you need to cite your sources. Seems like you read a lot of sites that are obviously slanted towards Tookie.
Tookie co-founded the Crips gang in 1971, that gang would soon spread across America cuasing mayhem and chaos in once peaceful neighborhoods. Remember that HBO Special back in 1994 called Gang Bangin' in Little Rock?? That was filmed in my back yard. Blacks killing other blacks because of the colors they wore (Red being Bloods, Blue being Crips) and so many innocent people getting killed along the way. Back in that time my family was deathly afriad to set foot in Little Rock because they feared the gangs and the destruction they would bring. Gangs and crime have no racial boundaries Juicy. I would expect a white man to get the same punishment as Tookie did if he committed the exact crimes. Tookie feared what God was going to hand down to him when he died, thats why he wanted his sentence commuted, he wanted an easy out. thats nice and all if he got Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize but its going to take alot more that just a small group of ex-gang bangers or banger wannabes to get Tookies Prize.
From 1979-1998 there were 18,386 Crips gang related deaths in Los Angeles county alone. (www.streetgangs.com) And one life to teach a lesson that murdering is wrong is a small price to pay for the chain reaction of murders caused my Tookie's co-founding of a violent street gang.
-Dixie
And he lost his right to live because he committed a crime he took away 4 peoples right to live. I dont see any racial bias in that.
Also when you post a bunch of gibberish - no one reads it because it is TLDR (too long didnt read), and you need to cite your sources. Seems like you read a lot of sites that are obviously slanted towards Tookie.
Tookie co-founded the Crips gang in 1971, that gang would soon spread across America cuasing mayhem and chaos in once peaceful neighborhoods. Remember that HBO Special back in 1994 called Gang Bangin' in Little Rock?? That was filmed in my back yard. Blacks killing other blacks because of the colors they wore (Red being Bloods, Blue being Crips) and so many innocent people getting killed along the way. Back in that time my family was deathly afriad to set foot in Little Rock because they feared the gangs and the destruction they would bring. Gangs and crime have no racial boundaries Juicy. I would expect a white man to get the same punishment as Tookie did if he committed the exact crimes. Tookie feared what God was going to hand down to him when he died, thats why he wanted his sentence commuted, he wanted an easy out. thats nice and all if he got Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize but its going to take alot more that just a small group of ex-gang bangers or banger wannabes to get Tookies Prize.
From 1979-1998 there were 18,386 Crips gang related deaths in Los Angeles county alone. (www.streetgangs.com) And one life to teach a lesson that murdering is wrong is a small price to pay for the chain reaction of murders caused my Tookie's co-founding of a violent street gang.
-Dixie
