Questions for bully & APBTA 'type' owners
- Thread starter Dogdragoness
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I just don't see animal/dog aggression as a problem. I think that's something that we need to educate the public about than something we need to fix in our dogs. We should teach the public that it's okay for a dog to not like other dogs and that yes, dogs actually DO kill cats sometimes, just like in the cartoons. It's nature, they are predators.
But realistically? I don't think the Pit Bull problem will ever be fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if they're illegal everywhere in the United States in 20 years. All because of bad breeders and bad owners.
But realistically? I don't think the Pit Bull problem will ever be fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if they're illegal everywhere in the United States in 20 years. All because of bad breeders and bad owners.
S
And then they start showing their dogs and people start screaming that they aren't Pit Bulls anymore. Leave them on a chain their whole lives and don't do a **** thing with them? Plunk them on a couch and take them for walks occasionally? "Real Pit Bull." Step foot into a show ring? "Amstaff!" "American Bully!!" Whether or not the dog actually has a drop of AST blood in it. The "real Pit Bull" BS gets old after awhile, particularly when most people with the self-proclaimed "real Pit Bulls" fall into one of the aforementioned categories of "don't do anything with my dog but sit on the internet and pound my chest over my delusions of owning a status symbol" owners.
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Dog and animal aggression isn't a problem for experienced people. JQP sees it as a problem. Unless the dog is trained and can act like a decent dog in public then don't take them out where JQP can see them. Also,don't post pictures of your dogs being asshats at other dogs, it just makes the Breed look bad to the public that VOTES new laws in. I wish more game dog people would be more active in fighting BSL.
I wish more of them would actually train their dogs. Like obedience training, not running around a show ring.
I wish more of them would actually train their dogs. Like obedience training, not running around a show ring.
You won't find me disagreeing. Half the people in the ADBA have show-bred dogs but claim their dogs are better in some way than AmStaffs, even HARD working bred AmStaffs, just because... I don't know, they're leaner, I guess? They probably have more drive than most AmStaffs and certainly more dog aggression but they're still show-bred dogs. And then there are people like you're mentioning who think just because a dog has been in a show, it's a show-bred dog/AmStaff. Funny thing, there are some dogs in Russia who have both pit wins AND show points... Wonder what they think about that?
A note I found regarding the same sex pairs-and other breeds as well. Written by Animal Farm Foundation:
Looking to send more “pit bull” dogs home with adopters? Then it’s time to step away from blanket restrictions such as: No Same Sex Pairs. Some dogs might prefer a housemate of the opposite sex (or no other dogs at all), but others will do just fine with a dog of the same sex. Try to determine what your available dogs need to succeed, rather than placing blanket restrictions that might cause them to miss out on a great home, like Navy Pier, an AFF alumni that now lives with another female dog named Kylee!
Looking to send more “pit bull” dogs home with adopters? Then it’s time to step away from blanket restrictions such as: No Same Sex Pairs. Some dogs might prefer a housemate of the opposite sex (or no other dogs at all), but others will do just fine with a dog of the same sex. Try to determine what your available dogs need to succeed, rather than placing blanket restrictions that might cause them to miss out on a great home, like Navy Pier, an AFF alumni that now lives with another female dog named Kylee!
I agree 100%! I get sick of hearing "My dog killed a cat/squirrel/rabbit" Geeesh-then they wanna rehome it. Or ask endlessy where dogs need foster homes "Is he good with cats?" and deny the dog a home because their evil cat might get bitten. Lol-
I tell them dogs kill cats, cats kill mice-dogs & cats kill birds, squirrels, rats, any critters. It is how nature intended it to be. They dont HAVE to be like this, but naturally, instinctively, this is what happens.
I tell them dogs kill cats, cats kill mice-dogs & cats kill birds, squirrels, rats, any critters. It is how nature intended it to be. They dont HAVE to be like this, but naturally, instinctively, this is what happens.
Wait a minute-I know it happens, however, I also believe that dogs such as cockers, chi's, all those ankle biters (I had a peke from hell) bite MUCH more often then an APBT would. The dogs with the little dog syndrom are far more aggressive towards humans and other animals. Pitbulls do more damage yes, but to me, the above statement says that Pitbulls are a dangerous breed due to many common bite incidents. More so then any other breeds. Or, Im just reading it wrong.
S
I don't have a "problem" necessarily with DA in APBTs either, being as they are terriers first and foremost, and were created to be a fighting breed on top of that. Unfortunately, the ratio of people who can handle true DA to APBT/mix dogs out there is just too small. I honestly don't have an answer for what the best solution is to that "problem," in the real world; In a perfect world, it could be as simple as magically making every breeder thoroughly screen homes, every owner would be perfectly honest with said breeders about their level of experience and commitment to their dogs, and nobody on either side would make mistakes. In other peoples' perfect world, we'd just magically breed the DA out of the APBT while keeping every other aspect of the breed intact, because DA has no "place" in the majority of modern society.
But it's not a perfect world.
It's easy for people to say, "just breed the DA out." I agree that DA in and of itself doesn't have much of a place in modern society. But "just breed the DA out, problem solved" is about as logical as the common solution to the overpopulation problem, "just stop ALL breeding for 15 years." In both cases, yes, it's a no-brainer solution on paper (and that whole "perfect world" thing in which everyone intended to comply actually does so), but the problem is that people rarely consider the negative ramifications of what they're suggesting. In the case of "just stop breeding," well, dogs would go extinct. "Just breed the DA out?" At this point, it would be extremely difficult to breed out true DA in APBTs without unintentionally breeding out the drive and intensity that makes the APBT such a great and versatile working breed.
So, I don't have a solution. My "solution" for right now is to try to make APBT owners understand that there is no level of training or management that will always prevent a dog fight, without fail, if they run an APBT with another dog. Sure, that makes me sound like an a.sshole, but what else is there? After repeating the same thing over and over for decades and seeing...and cleaning up...the damage done when people don't want to believe it. What else is there?
But it's not a perfect world.
It's easy for people to say, "just breed the DA out." I agree that DA in and of itself doesn't have much of a place in modern society. But "just breed the DA out, problem solved" is about as logical as the common solution to the overpopulation problem, "just stop ALL breeding for 15 years." In both cases, yes, it's a no-brainer solution on paper (and that whole "perfect world" thing in which everyone intended to comply actually does so), but the problem is that people rarely consider the negative ramifications of what they're suggesting. In the case of "just stop breeding," well, dogs would go extinct. "Just breed the DA out?" At this point, it would be extremely difficult to breed out true DA in APBTs without unintentionally breeding out the drive and intensity that makes the APBT such a great and versatile working breed.
So, I don't have a solution. My "solution" for right now is to try to make APBT owners understand that there is no level of training or management that will always prevent a dog fight, without fail, if they run an APBT with another dog. Sure, that makes me sound like an a.sshole, but what else is there? After repeating the same thing over and over for decades and seeing...and cleaning up...the damage done when people don't want to believe it. What else is there?
Nope you're reading it wrong. I am pointedly saying that people who swear APBT or mixes there of are immune to training gone wrong or illtempered bites are foolish and have not spent their allotted time in the general public working with dogs.
I should also clarify that I have no real issue with a DA breed, I do however take issue with allowing dogs to act a fool because of their breed origin. "why should I control my dogs aggression? He was born to be this way." Is a very real reason that I have heard repeatedly from people now desperately trying to right a wrong before AC takes their dogs for being a danger to society because society is not just people, it includes our property and our pets.
There is nothing wrong, furthermore, with asking for a cat tolerant dog. Is it fool proof? Never. But I, like so many in the world today, prefer a controlled dog that is safe in my home and my community.
I should also clarify that I have no real issue with a DA breed, I do however take issue with allowing dogs to act a fool because of their breed origin. "why should I control my dogs aggression? He was born to be this way." Is a very real reason that I have heard repeatedly from people now desperately trying to right a wrong before AC takes their dogs for being a danger to society because society is not just people, it includes our property and our pets.
There is nothing wrong, furthermore, with asking for a cat tolerant dog. Is it fool proof? Never. But I, like so many in the world today, prefer a controlled dog that is safe in my home and my community.
S
Exactly. And on the other side of the fence, a lot more people than ever think that they're "just like every other dog, it's all in how you raise them" and "every dog deserves a chance at life, sure he bites people but with enough love and rehabilitation..." Those people aren't doing the breed any favors either, even though they mean well.
S
Sure, it could be worded "dogs" but this is an APBT issue more than a dog issue. Most dog fights involving other breeds are pretty forgiving. Cavaliers aren't in danger of being banned because one dog in the entire population of the breed decided the neighbor's miniature Poodle needed to die for wandering into its yard (I'd actually be surprised if that's ever happened in the history of that breed, but you get what I mean).
That's the difference though. Most dogs of most breeds have to have a particular set of circumstances before them to trigger a fight; A bitch in season, another intact male, stress, food, rough play that gets out of control, etc. Things that can be prevented. Many APBTs simply require the presence of another dog. That's a completely foreign concept to most people, including most people who own APBTs. Take a look at Pit Bull Chat someday and the sheer number of new people whose first posts consist of the same basic theme along the lines of, "Max has gotten along with my other dog for years and all of a sudden this morning he just attacked her for no reason, I don't understand why. Help!"
That said, I've owned a couple APBTs who really were just like any other dog until the day they died. We've also owned a truly, extreme-spectrum DA APBT that would eat through crates, and walls, to get to another dog. Most of my dogs, both gamebred and show bred, have been in the "turned on at some point in their lives" category. Some did it at 6 months. Some did it at several years. But most eventually did, and most of those didn't show any sign of impending DA or DS.
That's the difference though. Most dogs of most breeds have to have a particular set of circumstances before them to trigger a fight; A bitch in season, another intact male, stress, food, rough play that gets out of control, etc. Things that can be prevented. Many APBTs simply require the presence of another dog. That's a completely foreign concept to most people, including most people who own APBTs. Take a look at Pit Bull Chat someday and the sheer number of new people whose first posts consist of the same basic theme along the lines of, "Max has gotten along with my other dog for years and all of a sudden this morning he just attacked her for no reason, I don't understand why. Help!"
That said, I've owned a couple APBTs who really were just like any other dog until the day they died. We've also owned a truly, extreme-spectrum DA APBT that would eat through crates, and walls, to get to another dog. Most of my dogs, both gamebred and show bred, have been in the "turned on at some point in their lives" category. Some did it at 6 months. Some did it at several years. But most eventually did, and most of those didn't show any sign of impending DA or DS.