Questions for bully & APBTA 'type' owners

[Renee750il]

Knowing your dog -- and that includes propensities of the breed or type -- is the key, and a big part of keeping your dog out of circumstances that have a higher possibility of going south.

The sooner we can get the public at large to realize that sooner we'll be able to undemonize our dogs in their eyes, and that's the real issue. Public perception vs. what's real. Reality can be dealt with, but how do you fight hyperbole and propaganda?

 

[SevenSins]

Reality can be dealt with, but how do you fight hyperbole and propaganda?

Honesty and personal responsibility. And that's the problem. There isn't enough of it.

 

[Renee750il]

Honesty and personal responsibility. And that's the problem. There isn't enough of it.

And, we've got to face it, there's more of it than is apparent because it just doesn't get the attention, doesn't have the drama or widespread appeal of the bullshit.

And likely never will.

 

[Miakoda]

Exactly. And on the other side of the fence, a lot more people than ever think that they're "just like every other dog, it's all in how you raise them" and "every dog deserves a chance at life, sure he bites people but with enough love and rehabilitation..." Those people aren't doing the breed any favors either, even though they mean well.

What's that good ol' saying? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."



This thread has taken on so many issues, I'm not even sure where to begin. Honestly, I've taken a long hiatus from all my apbt/"pit bull" forums, mainly because I felt like all I was doing was copying and pasting my words over and over and over and over and over again. On top of that, I have really been beaten down by the number of willfully ignorant owners who downright refuse to listen to anyone about the truths about the dogs, and those who continue to willfully ruin the dogs because their own selfish desires come first.

I'm tired of standing in city council meetings next to these people and be forced to defend their rights to own these dogs as well as my own, especially when THEY are the reason why breed specific legislation gets suggested in the first place.

I've really been in a funk about these dogs. It breaks my heart to see what so many have become, and it breaks my heart even more to look at their owners, who are responsible for it all.

As far as DA goes, it is what it is. You can manage it, but you cannot eradicate it. DA, IMO, is a side effect of what these dogs were bred for. They were NOT bred for dog aggression in itself. Dog aggression means nothing in terms of pit fighting ability. DA is just there just as it is in almost all terriers and bulldogs (to varying degrees per indivudal dog). If a dog is inherently DA, it doesn't mean you should just let it act like a nincompoop, but it also doesn't mean you should spend all your time and money on training classes with trainers who tell you to "love and train the dog aggression out". Just deal with it.

 

[Pops2]

MY OPINIONS

gamedog-PROVEN IN THE BOX
gamebred- PARENTS PROVEN IN THE BOX

pit bulldog-bred & INTENDED to be used in the box

bulldog- generic term for anything that looks like a bulldog to include bourdeaux, boxer, amstaff, american bulldog, oldes, and "pit bull" type

pit bull-misnomer equivalent to bulldog

asshat-most bulldog owners

ignorant asshats-the doofuses that think love & training are all it takes to prevent a dog fight & are then shocked when their dog starts a fight and the doofuses that preach no such thing as manbiters in "real pitbulls"

manbiters- they existed & were bred from. i suspect it was similar to the hunting houndsmen. when they first start breeding they're young & think they have to have ill dogs in order to have dogs that can go toe to toe w/ a boar, bear, coon etc. as they get older they realize that a dog can be good tempered & still be hard on game.

blue- since the blue paul was involved in the making of the APBT breed blue did exist in the game dogs. blue dogs were produced in game lines as rescently as the 1980s. however they were not 100#

size- Mayday, to the best of my knowledge, was 74# chainweight and low 60s matchweight. the best arbiter of weight though is the fact that the highest weighted class was 60# after that was catchweight.

 

[Renee750il]

blue- since the blue paul was involved in the making of the APBT breed blue did exist in the game dogs. blue dogs were produced in game lines as rescently as the 1980s. however they were not 100#

:hail: I think you'd enjoy some time here, around Cocke County, back in the more remote communities -- and even the not-so-remote ones

Would be difficult to convince anyone there's any Neo in this little 50# blue brindle bitch Dogs like here aren't that rare here, although they aren't often seen out in the hands of many people like me. That was a fluke. Lucky for me <3

 

[stafinois]

blue- since the blue paul was involved in the making of the APBT breed blue did exist in the game dogs. blue dogs were produced in game lines as rescently as the 1980s. however they were not 100#

For anyone interested, I wrote up this info on Blue Pauls because this seems to come up a lot. Instead of copy/paste every few months, I gave it a permanent home.

http://odnarb.com/blog2/2012/06/26/historical-feature-the-blue-paul/

 

[Mach1girl]

:hail: I think you'd enjoy some time here, around Cocke County, back in the more remote communities -- and even the not-so-remote ones

Would be difficult to convince anyone there's any Neo in this little 50# blue brindle bitch Dogs like here aren't that rare here, although they aren't often seen out in the hands of many people like me. That was a fluke. Lucky for me <3

My son has a blue, and although we thought him to be "bully" when he got him, his a year old now (Nov he will be ) and he is far from the short, wide, big headed, compat bullies you typically see that are blue. He resembles the dog in the picture more then typical "Bully"Havent I posted pics?

 

[Mach1girl]

See? I dont think he is going to be "bully". He is such a handsome boy! Just a BRAT!

 

[kady05]

Piper's another blue dog that isn't very "Bully".. some of my APBT friends have told me I should put her in a fun show just because LOL.

If I actually conditioned her, she'd be ripped. Definitely not the typical 100+ blue hippo dog.

 

[Mach1girl]

Piper's another blue dog that isn't very "Bully".. some of my APBT friends have told me I should put her in a fun show just because LOL.

If I actually conditioned her, she'd be ripped. Definitely not the typical 100+ blue hippo dog.

Once Zeus fills out a bit more (hes still at the awkward age) He will be ripped.

 

[Miakoda]

Blue dogs (dilute black) did exist, but....they weren't bred solely for their color as they are today. And most of the old dogmen I've spoken with in my life all referred to them as "grey".

As for blue Bullies, a dog doesn't just have to look a certain way to be considered a Bully. You might have a 55 lb throwback, but if your dog's pedigree is full of modern day RE dogs, Gotti-bred dogs, Camelot, Peterson, Whopper....whatever, your dog is a Bully. Period. When you start getting into York, Gaff, Ruffian, you've now entered AST territory, which are NOT APBTs, and those lines are also used in AmBullies.

 

[cliffdog]

I am certainly not trying to say that all blue dogs are bullies, I have seen game bred blues and to a greater extent show bred APBTs that are blue. But just because a dog is lean doesn't mean that dog isn't a bully. A friend of mine has a blue dog that's pretty lean and trim more resembling a traditional APBT, but his parents were big, heavy bully dogs. And there are some dogs in the Classic category in the ABKC that could pass for an AmStaff.

 

[Renee750il]

Blue dogs (dilute black) did exist, but....they weren't bred solely for their color as they are today. And most of the old dogmen I've spoken with in my life all referred to them as "grey".

As for blue Bullies, a dog doesn't just have to look a certain way to be considered a Bully. You might have a 55 lb throwback, but if your dog's pedigree is full of modern day RE dogs, Gotti-bred dogs, Camelot, Peterson, Whopper....whatever, your dog is a Bully. Period. When you start getting into York, Gaff, Ruffian, you've now entered AST territory, which are NOT APBTs, and those lines are also used in AmBullies.

Seems like it's a lot like figuring out what a mix might be -- you have to take the area a dog is from into account. Living right smack in the area where the Irish and Scots who brought their dogs when they settled helps. If you follow the mountains from north Georgia on up into Virginia you'll find a lot of Irish and Scots blood. Look for the redheads, lol!

 

[Laurelin]

I do not understand the notion that unless a dog has papers it cannot be a 'APBT'. In pretty much every other breed if it looks enough like the breed and acts enough like the breed then call it that breed. Why is it different with pit bulls?

And there certainly is just as much variation in other breeds too. Went to the vet last week with Mia and ran into a lady I know with her papillon, Jake. He's not well bred but is definitely still the same breed. Even if he's twice the size of a well bred pap and has a horrible underbite, no fringe, and no coat. Still the same breed.

I understand that Am Bullies have other breeds mixed in. But why are people so hung up on calling rescues that look enough like an APBT and act like one an APBT? Of course you don't know for sure if that dog is 100% APBT. Just like you don't know that border collie you got from rescue is 100% BC or that lab or so on. Do we have to start calling everything not 100% papered 'X type dog'?

Every pit bull thread leaves me so confused.

 

[Pops2]

I do not understand the notion that unless a dog has papers it cannot be a 'APBT'. In pretty much every other breed if it looks enough like the breed and acts enough like the breed then call it that breed. Why is it different with pit bulls?

And there certainly is just as much variation in other breeds too. Went to the vet last week with Mia and ran into a lady I know with her papillon, Jake. He's not well bred but is definitely still the same breed. Even if he's twice the size of a well bred pap and has a horrible underbite, no fringe, and no coat. Still the same breed.

I understand that Am Bullies have other breeds mixed in. But why are people so hung up on calling that border collie you got from rescue is 100% BC or that lab or so on. Do we have to start calling everything not 100% papered 'X type dog'?

Every pit bull thread leaves me so confused.

because BSL advocates & the ACOs that enforce it insist on calling boxerXlabs & mastiff mixes pit bulls. it is effectively the same as calling basenjis & paps chis & banning them.

 

[Tahla9999]

Every pit bull thread leaves me so confused.

Most of the time you should never look at a pit bull debate with logic, but emotion.

The argument for not naming every pit bull looking dog a "pit bull" is due to many breeds looking similar to the pit bull and some breeds are even sometimes called pit bull, like the american bulldog and american bully. When you have a large amount of attacks by dogs named "pit bull" it isn't a surprise that there is skepticism, which is why I keep up with dog attacks/dog fatalities to determine whether( if they provided a picture) or not the dog is an APBT.

 

[Laurelin]

I know that people misidentify the breed all the time. I wasn't really meaning the dogs that are obviously not pit bulls. I was talking more along the lines I've heard (not just this thread) that if it's not papered then it's not an APBT.

Or the idea that if a blue dog of unknown pedigree looks APBT but you don't know for a fact it is or isn't a bully then you can't call it an APBT?

Confusing myself again.

 

[Red Chrome]

What about a dog that is sxatterbred? Everything from old school game lines,Caragan lines,RE lines,Gaff,York,Benmar and more? Not to mention,she is 48 lbs. I call my scatterbred dog an APBT and will continue to cause she is UKC regs. And sshe is a wonderful breed ambassador!

 

[Tahla9999]

I know that people misidentify the breed all the time. I wasn't really meaning the dogs that are obviously not pit bulls. I was talking more along the lines I've heard (not just this thread) that if it's not papered then it's not an APBT.

Or the idea that if a blue dog of unknown pedigree looks APBT but you don't know for a fact it is or isn't a bully then you can't call it an APBT?

Confusing myself again.

I'm with AdrianneIsabel on this one and that if it looks like an APBT/ walks like an APBT/ acts like an APBT than it is one. Though many pit bull people will disagree with me, like I said, emotion, not logic.