Question (Morals)
- Thread starter Ashlea
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Very nicely put Mom!
Slutty casual sex, the kind where you wake up the next morning going "What's your name again?" I don't agree with. But sex with someone you have a decent connection with at the very least, so that it's something you share and enjoy together and not just the other looking for all the fun, I can't label that as "wrong".
Morals are a very tricky thing, as they do shift across cultural and ideological lines. It's incredibly immoral for a woman in the Middle East to show bare arms, never mind any amount of leg, where as here in the Western countries, shorts and tanktop are no big deal (providing they're not micro shorts and a bandana). Killing on a whim and out of spite is wrong; killing to protect family is not necessarily accepted, but applauded on a private level. Stealing to feed starving children gains the sympathy of many, stealing for personal gain earns a rightfully imposed jail sentence.
It really is all relative.
Slutty casual sex, the kind where you wake up the next morning going "What's your name again?" I don't agree with. But sex with someone you have a decent connection with at the very least, so that it's something you share and enjoy together and not just the other looking for all the fun, I can't label that as "wrong".
Morals are a very tricky thing, as they do shift across cultural and ideological lines. It's incredibly immoral for a woman in the Middle East to show bare arms, never mind any amount of leg, where as here in the Western countries, shorts and tanktop are no big deal (providing they're not micro shorts and a bandana). Killing on a whim and out of spite is wrong; killing to protect family is not necessarily accepted, but applauded on a private level. Stealing to feed starving children gains the sympathy of many, stealing for personal gain earns a rightfully imposed jail sentence.
It really is all relative.
Casablanca's got it. When lineage by patriarchy became the way lands and goods were passed down to sons, it became imperative to find a way that men could feel relatively assured that their sons were their sons . . . When the lines were matrilineal, it was much simpler to keep track. Everyone KNEW who the mother of a child was.
Marriage did pre-date Christianity by many centuries though. As an example, the ancient Celtic peoples had, through their brehon laws, many degrees of "marriage" ranging from short term commitments to lifelong marriages. Mostly, women and men were considered equals, although there were special marriage arrangements - think of them in terms of today's prenuptual agreements - that outlined relationships between two people of different economic or social status.
The Christian dogma regarding marriage and sex is a rule. There is Biblical text condemning "fornication" but it does go back to a time when the Hebrew patriarchs were cementing their hold on power and control over a civilization that had been matriarchal for many, many previous generations . . . so we go back to Casablanca's point.
Marriage did pre-date Christianity by many centuries though. As an example, the ancient Celtic peoples had, through their brehon laws, many degrees of "marriage" ranging from short term commitments to lifelong marriages. Mostly, women and men were considered equals, although there were special marriage arrangements - think of them in terms of today's prenuptual agreements - that outlined relationships between two people of different economic or social status.
The Christian dogma regarding marriage and sex is a rule. There is Biblical text condemning "fornication" but it does go back to a time when the Hebrew patriarchs were cementing their hold on power and control over a civilization that had been matriarchal for many, many previous generations . . . so we go back to Casablanca's point.
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I loved discussing that concept....and it's really never since made sense to me WHY we have the patrilinear method, when as Renee already pointed out and what's incredibly obvious to eveyrone else with eyes...there is no discussion about who the birth mother is. But that's a whole thread in and of itself.
L
My major argument is that whole story about sex before marrige being a sin. Marrige is a Pagan ritual that was adopted by the governers of I think Rome to control over population of the pesants (Pagans). Can someone please explain to me how, if I deeply love my boyfriend and am in a monogomous relationship with him, is having sex with him wrong?
Regardless of how marriage came to be it is meant to be between one man and one woman. If you are in a monogomaus relationship, I agree...what's the point of waiting? Other than you may not want kids right away (and you aren't using protection) or if someone has a disease or sexual problem.
He is a Christian, he has been saved and believes emphatically that Jesus died for our sins. I say that that is all good and well, and I beleive it too, but, I have a problem with the man made Dogma that places such heavy restrictions on Christians.
Does he have a problem with having sex before marriage? If so, respect his wishes and beliefs. If not, what's the problem? I don't believe it's "man made" as you say. Refer to the Bible for various scriptures. Sex before marriage has been a contraversy for several years. Some Christians want proof that the Bible says having sex before marriage is wrong. The fact is that the Bible does not come right out and say that some things are morally wrong, but logic will tell us that it is wrong based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. http://catholicism.about.com/od/sexandsexuality/f/fqbiblesex06.htm
Saving sex for marriage is encouraged in the Bible. Read Matthew 5:8, 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 and 1 Timothy 5:2. Keep in mind though, that Jesus tells us chastity is correct in His entire message.
I agree that lying, stealing and murder etc are wrong. But allot of the things seem a little silly to me. So what, you have a couple of drinks, giggle a bit and wake up with a hangover. That is not a sin in my mind. That is just some fun. For me, as long as I don't hurt anyone I do not see that behaviour as wrong.
Drinking is fine, drinking in excess is the problem.
Which other "things seem a little silly" to you? (Refering to the commandments since you brought up stealing and murder.)
Regardless of how marriage came to be it is meant to be between one man and one woman. If you are in a monogomaus relationship, I agree...what's the point of waiting? Other than you may not want kids right away (and you aren't using protection) or if someone has a disease or sexual problem.
He is a Christian, he has been saved and believes emphatically that Jesus died for our sins. I say that that is all good and well, and I beleive it too, but, I have a problem with the man made Dogma that places such heavy restrictions on Christians.
Does he have a problem with having sex before marriage? If so, respect his wishes and beliefs. If not, what's the problem? I don't believe it's "man made" as you say. Refer to the Bible for various scriptures. Sex before marriage has been a contraversy for several years. Some Christians want proof that the Bible says having sex before marriage is wrong. The fact is that the Bible does not come right out and say that some things are morally wrong, but logic will tell us that it is wrong based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. http://catholicism.about.com/od/sexandsexuality/f/fqbiblesex06.htm
Saving sex for marriage is encouraged in the Bible. Read Matthew 5:8, 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 and 1 Timothy 5:2. Keep in mind though, that Jesus tells us chastity is correct in His entire message.
I agree that lying, stealing and murder etc are wrong. But allot of the things seem a little silly to me. So what, you have a couple of drinks, giggle a bit and wake up with a hangover. That is not a sin in my mind. That is just some fun. For me, as long as I don't hurt anyone I do not see that behaviour as wrong.
Drinking is fine, drinking in excess is the problem.
Which other "things seem a little silly" to you? (Refering to the commandments since you brought up stealing and murder.)
Colossians 3:5
Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Ephesians 5:3
But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
Ephesians 5:2-4 (in Context) Ephesians 5 (Whole Chapter)
Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.
fornication:
1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.
In these passages sleeping with someone outside of marriage is compared other sins, some "worse" then others. (however in the eyes of God according to the Word all sin is created equal)
Also, strictly world view, stds, unplanned pregnancy, feelings of deep depression after sleeping with someone who "loved" you deeply, to find out they were just trying to get into your pants...all very good reasons to abstain until marriage. That said, it is your life, and only God can judge you...
Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Ephesians 5:3
But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
Ephesians 5:2-4 (in Context) Ephesians 5 (Whole Chapter)
Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.
fornication:
1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.
In these passages sleeping with someone outside of marriage is compared other sins, some "worse" then others. (however in the eyes of God according to the Word all sin is created equal)
Also, strictly world view, stds, unplanned pregnancy, feelings of deep depression after sleeping with someone who "loved" you deeply, to find out they were just trying to get into your pants...all very good reasons to abstain until marriage. That said, it is your life, and only God can judge you...
T
:hail:
It isn't just people that believe in God that think sex before marriage is wrong, but the bible(God's very own word) says so as well.
I believe if you are able to get married, you should wait until after marriage. There are always certain circumstances and exceptions where I might rethink. (For example: Couple that has been together for very long time cannot for whatever reason marry, but both have vowed in their own hearts and to eachother to stay faithful and devote their lives to eachother.)
It isn't just people that believe in God that think sex before marriage is wrong, but the bible(God's very own word) says so as well.
I believe if you are able to get married, you should wait until after marriage. There are always certain circumstances and exceptions where I might rethink. (For example: Couple that has been together for very long time cannot for whatever reason marry, but both have vowed in their own hearts and to eachother to stay faithful and devote their lives to eachother.)
Yet if two people made that pledge to one another without public, formal recognition of it . . . Their act of sexual intercourse would be considered fornication? Where does the Bible define exactly what marriage is?
If certain actions are between individuals and God, why is so much importance placed on how others view these actions? Does wearing a ring and signing some papers automatically make one faithful? I know a gay couple who have been together for 35 years - since high school. Legally, they can not be married, but spiritually, they are forever committed to one another.
If certain actions are between individuals and God, why is so much importance placed on how others view these actions? Does wearing a ring and signing some papers automatically make one faithful? I know a gay couple who have been together for 35 years - since high school. Legally, they can not be married, but spiritually, they are forever committed to one another.
To me marriage completes the union of two people .... and the vows are hopefully the glue. With divorce taken so lightly today and almost 50% of marriages end up this way ..... I imagine " live ins " are even a larger % of splitting. If these involve children , it's even sadder. I think your next generation ( for you youngsters ) will have even lower morals. I'd rather put standards high ..... than start low.
Dizzy-
The reason I feel that it is about insecurity is because I think it is insecure to want a contract between yourself and someone else vowing to be with them for life. Just as I feel it is insecurity that causes me to want a written contract to sell a car. I dont feel secure that someone that I dont know will hold up their end of the bargain so I want a contract.
The same reason that I would sell a car to a friend with no contract is the same reason I could live with someone with no contract. I dont care if they default! If they do, so what? I dont want to sue them, I dont want to point to their signature on the written agreement and force them against their will to abide by it. I would never want someone to stay with me because its written in a contract. Love can go away it doesnt matter how much red tape you have holding it together.
The reason I feel that it is about insecurity is because I think it is insecure to want a contract between yourself and someone else vowing to be with them for life. Just as I feel it is insecurity that causes me to want a written contract to sell a car. I dont feel secure that someone that I dont know will hold up their end of the bargain so I want a contract.
The same reason that I would sell a car to a friend with no contract is the same reason I could live with someone with no contract. I dont care if they default! If they do, so what? I dont want to sue them, I dont want to point to their signature on the written agreement and force them against their will to abide by it. I would never want someone to stay with me because its written in a contract. Love can go away it doesnt matter how much red tape you have holding it together.
Sex before marriage means you have given yourself to this man. You are supposed to stay with one person forever. The number of sex before marriage, marriages that don;t end up working out is overwhelming. Generally if you wait your relationship has a better chance of suriviving and God wants you to give yourself to one person only. And what if you never got married? You have given away what made your body pure. If you have sex with another person I promise you will probably be thinking about that first person which is sinful. As sex enters a marriage other important stuff tends to fade and you lose out on getting to know the person. I had a speaker tell me about this experiment a college did where there was this lady in a room and the room wouldn't change but as sher lifted her skirt a person would come in look, leave and the write down what he saw in the room. Each time the lady would raise her skirt more. Each time the person listed less things about the room other than the lady. ITs like that in a relationship.