Question (Morals)

[Ashlea]

The thread debating whether lying for a reason is a sin made me think about things. I have VERY recently accepted God into my life but am having HUGE problems with allot of the Dogma involved.

My major argument is that whole story about sex before marrige being a sin. Marrige is a Pagan ritual that was adopted by the governers of I think Rome to control over population of the pesants (Pagans). Can someone please explain to me how, if I deeply love my boyfriend and am in a monogomous relationship with him, is having sex with him wrong?

He is a Christian, he has been saved and believes emphatically that Jesus died for our sins. I say that that is all good and well, and I beleive it too, but, I have a problem with the man made Dogma that places such heavy restrictions on Christians.

I agree that lying, stealing and murder etc are wrong. But allot of the things seem a little silly to me. So what, you have a couple of drinks, giggle a bit and wake up with a hangover. That is not a sin in my mind. That is just some fun. For me, as long as I don't hurt anyone I do not see that behaviour as wrong.

Same with sex before marrige. I am not hurting anyone by being intimate with a man I am in love with. I am faithful to him and would do what ever it takes to be there for him. So to me it is not a silly fling.

I really enjoy reading the religious "debates" on this forum as I think there are many intelligent people on this board and they have helped my develop my own faith and opinions through their discussions.

Please, can we keep this friendly!!! Thank you!

 

[Dizzy]

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

 

[Ashlea]

LOL!!!! Indeed!

 

[Red_ACD_for_me]

I agree with you Ashlea on pretty much everything you said I have "morals" as far as I'm concerned. I'm a good person and always help people in need. I don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, and I'm a responsible person. I had a child before I was married, lived together with my boyfriend before marriage (daughters father) and we were together for 10 years but in the end it didn't work out . Does that make me a "bad" person? No, I don't think so, to some real "holy rollers" I might be bad in their eyes but so be it. I think I am a wonderful human being


opcorn:

 

[Dizzy]

Morals are all relative.

What's good to me, might be disgusting to you. And vice versa.

Be the best person you can be, treat people how you want to be treated, respect your earth, and strive for peace and love.

I can't speak for the religious side, as I am not religious. I put my faith in myself, and in those around me, and of course, my beautiful planet and all that shares it with me

God won't save the earth, or correct the wrongs, humans will. Hopefully. Maybe faith will aid those people in doing so - which is great -as long as they get their arses moving, I don't care WHO is doing the pushing.

 

[Buckshot]

The world God (what ever you see God as) created is what the animals are doing. I know that the natural thing is to do it when ever, where ever you can. God didnt create religion, man did. If you are loyal to your God or loyal to your religion is up to you. I cant be religious because I dont know of any religion that would accept my way of thinking. I think there are reasons that justify killing, I think there are reasons that justify stealing so on and so on.
Personally, I think marriage was created as a crutch for the insecure.
I would never get married, ever. I couldnt stand on an alter with a straight face and say that I will feel the exact same way as I do now in 30 years, no matter what hell this person puts me through or how ugly she becomes and I know no woman could say that stuff about me and mean it too.

 

[Squidbert]

Morals are all relative.

What's good to me, might be disgusting to you. And vice versa.

Be the best person you can be, treat people how you want to be treated, respect your earth, and strive for peace and love.

I can't speak for the religious side, as I am not religious. I put my faith in myself, and in those around me, and of course, my beautiful planet and all that shares it with me

God won't save the earth, or correct the wrongs, humans will. Hopefully. Maybe faith will aid those people in doing so - which is great -as long as they get their arses moving, I don't care WHO is doing the pushing.

Heehee.. well said!

However I don't think people will save the earth.. I think the earth will save itself.. I don't think we are that powerful.. we can't even help ourselves most of the time.. we're screwed the way I see it.. the earth is just spewing forth it's rage to get our population under control.. that's why there are so many natural disasters, diseases, etc.. In the words of wonderful Mr. Carlin, "The earth isn't going ANYWHERE! WE ARE!"

 

[Dizzy]

Personally, I think marriage was created as a crutch for the insecure.
I would never get married, ever. I couldnt stand on an alter with a straight face and say that I will feel the exact same way as I do now in 30 years, no matter what hell this person puts me through or how ugly she becomes and I know no woman could say that stuff about me and mean it too.

Disagree.

You have to be pretty **** secure to know you want to marry someone!!

I think that it is insecurity that STOPS people - ie - how will I know that this is the right one, forever?? That is an insecurity - not the other way round.

I'd love to get married, it's insecurity that STOPS me, and makes me wonder, what if I make a mistake!

 

[casablanca1]

From the maze of foggy recollection of college days when this sort of thing was actually discussed (having since been replaced by endless conversations about real estate), I think I remember something about marriage as an institution became popular as a way to ensure that kids belonged to one particular man. It's not infallible, obviously, but it encouraged people and property to stay within particular arrangements.

Personally, I don't think there's sin in sex before marriage, despite what my religion (Catholicism) says on the topic. However, I also think there's nothing sick/strange/unhealthy/weird/etc. about not having sex before marriage, which is quite a popular notion among many otherwise lovely people. If more people simply kept their sexual arrangements private and granted others the same courtesy, there'd be less wrangling in the world.

 

[Ashlea]

All great points. Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I am glad I am not the only one who does not subscribe to the Dogma.

 

[Angel Chicken]

I agree with you Ashlea on pretty much everything you said.I have "morals" as far as I'm concerned. I'm a good person and always help people in need. I had a child before I was married, lived together with my boyfriend before marriage (daughters father) and we were together for 10 years but in the end it didn't work out . Does that make me a "bad" person? No, I don't think so, to some real "holy rollers" I might be bad in their eyes but so be it. I think I am a wonderful human being

You and I were in the same situation! I had a child very young, and have had some people tell me I was going to hell for it. Do I think I am? Not at all.

I also agree with you Ashlea. I don't think sex before marrige is bad at all.

To me, marrige is a very scared thing. I have to pretty damned devoted to Rob before I decide to marry him. Now, I love Rob with all my heart, but, I think that we are both too young (even though he us 26 and I am 19) to devote our lives to that sort of scared thing, that lasts forever. I want to KNOW for postive that it is something that neither of us will want to screw up, ya know?

I think that's it for now..

 

[Ashlea]

Angel Chicken. I understand exactly where you are coming from. If I am going to stand up in front of God and my family and promise to take a man forever then I will not divorce if I can help it. Obivously if he becomes abusive or any other irrepairable thing (you get what I mean?) I would divorce, but I do not take marrrige lightly and when I love someone enough to make that promise I mean to keep it!

 

[bubbatd]

That's what I did Ash. BTW you are 24 and you called your SO a man .That's a lot different than a 16 year old and a boy .

 

[Renee750il]

Dogma has nothing to do with spirituality or saving your soul . . . Dogma is a set of rules ordained by man to regulate and control belief and behaviour. Rules are set up so that someone or some governing body can RULE. Some rules take the place of personal responsibility - they fill in when people cannot govern their own behaviour in a civil and compassionate manner. Other rules are dictated strictly to quash individual thought and action.

 

[nancy2394]

renee... the intelligence that oozes out of your pours just amazes me. You have such an intellect in so many areas.

 

[moxiegrl]

Well if Dogma has nothing to do w/ spirituality, and set up by man...and marriage is dogma...why do Christians say no sex before marriage?
And is casual sex different? Or do you have to be with a SO? Just questions..I have my opinions.... This could be fun! opcorn:

 

[MyIrishWolfie]

Sex is made for everyone... not just married people!!

Find yourself a birth-control that works for you and go have FUN!!!

 

[nancy2394]

I was going to TRY to stay out of this one. But I just want to say that birth control doesn't stop passing std's around.

And I just don't think it's right to go around screwing every tom, dick and harry... sorry, that's just my opinion. I think marriage is a sacred thing and making love (not just having sex) is something you should share with your husband or wife.

I had premarital intercourse and became pregnant. I knew TJ was the man for me, we just hadn't gotten married at that point. But I knew we would. We have been together since 1989 and married since 1998.

If I could have done it differently.. yes I would have waited until we were married. I have tried to instill that moral in our daughter. It would sadden me greatly if she decided to have pre marital intercourse. I want her to respect God and herself more than that.

I'm not sure about the whole dogma thing as I am still a newbie in christ. There's a lot I don't know in the spiritual world, but I am slowly learning. I just know what feels morally right and wrong to me. I want to please God and there are certain things I know will not please him.

As your faith and understanding of the bible grows, you will make changes in your life and decide what is important to you.

I congratulate you in accepting Jesus into your heart. He will always be there for you. I wish you the best of luck in your spiritual journey. It will take you many places.

 

[MomOf7]

What it comes down to is God knows your heart. He knows your unspoken thoughts and unseen actions. He is the judge not people.
He doesnt expect anyone to change over night. He knows the road he calls you to follow is a tough one to follow.

Thats how I see it anyways.

 

[moxiegrl]

What it comes down to is God knows your heart. He knows your unspoken thoughts and unseen actions. He is the judge not people.
He doesnt expect anyone to change over night. He knows the road he calls you to follow is a tough one to follow.

Thats how I see it anyways.

Nicely put...