Puppy Mills?

[RedyreRottweilers]

Ok. Let me simplify....

when I say what faults and virtues do the dogs have, I'm not speaking in terms of generalties like angulation, etc. I am talking about specifics.

Suchas shoulder layback and placement. Length of upper arm. Turn of stifle. Length and depth of muzzle. Eye shape and placement, ear shape, placement, and carriage, Proper proportion leg to body, and length to height. Tail set and carriage. Movement coming and going and from the side. Topline. Chest depth and width. Mouth faults are severely penalized in your breed as well.

Your defensive response to reasonable questions directed at someone who is breeding an admittedly over aggressive, uncontrollable (on your property does not count) untitled and un health tested bitch is a pretty good indication of what sort of "breeder" you are.

And since you now say you don't own the stud dog, why did the stud dog owner agree to breed your bitch under the age of 2 with no health testing?

 

[Mach1girl]

Ok, lets see. First, her bite as well as his(We know he is perfect, he has the titles,)Dixie:This is what the report from senior apbt ukc judge G.S has written:Normal incisor occlusion. Normal premolar tooth relationship. Overall, normal occlusal plane of lower and upper arches.
NextR Dxie Pride head: approximatly 2/3 the width compared to width of shoulders-normal. Seems to meet the 20% wideness at the beginning of the jawLower jaw is parallel to the ground during stack. NormalHeight verses legnth is proportioned.Normal.Eyes seem to be medium in size, round to almost almond shape and set well apart and low on the skull. Solid brown, no fault noted in coloration.

Ok, I am real busy, I have a family and 4 dogs to look after, so I am done for now. If you'd like, I will include the rest of this report tomorrow or later tonite. And so you know, the report was done at the UKC headquarters in Kalamazoo when Dixie turned 1 year of age. By a certified senior judge whom has many years experience. I am a friend, and had it done so as that I would know how she is for myself, since I figured I would never show her. He was honest, and told me I could be winning titles left and right with her. Maybe I am the chicken who is afraid to show her. Maybe I just dont want to bother fighting her to calm her down. Maybe I just want her as a pet. Either way, I will include the rest another time. Just to satisfy your curiosity. I will finish the pedigrees when i get a chance as well.

 

[evenstar7139]

Those breeders sound like they are all stinkin' puppy mills! *pukes*

 

[evenstar7139]

Since the inheritance mode of canine HD is unknown, even with a very solid pedigree, there is ALWAYS the risk of producing dogs with HD. About all that is known about the inheritance of CHD is that it has a polygenic mode of transmission, meaning that there are MANY genes involved in it's inheritance and expression.

If MY husband had the audacity to AI a 16 mos old bitch behind my back, he would be living somewhere else immediately, and all the puppies would be placed on strict spay/neuter agreements if I did not cull them all at birth.

Have you had preliminary films done on this bitch? Where are her littermates? Have they had any hip scoring done? Is the bitch or the sire titled in any way? What hip ratings did her parents and their littermates have? What do APBT people commonly screen for in addition to hips? Eyes? Elbows? Hearts? Patellas?

Something smells funny here to me.

Hip Dysplasia, Elbow Dysplasia, and Cardiac Disease is VERY common in the APBT/AST so hips, elbows, and cardiac. Tho less people believe in it, some good breeders do thyroid and eyes too as Pit Bulls can have hereditary problems with these.

 

[evenstar7139]

And a good breeder of Pit Bulls NEVER EVER tollarates human aggression in one of their dogs and will put down such a pit in a heart beat. This breed is too powerful to allow human-dangerous dogs to pass on such a trait. It just gives cities, states, and countries more incentive to ban all Pit Bulls.

 

[Mach1girl]

And a good breeder of Pit Bulls NEVER EVER tollarates human aggression in one of their dogs and will put down such a pit in a heart beat. This breed is too powerful to allow human-dangerous dogs to pass on such a trait. It just gives cities, states, and countries more incentive to ban all Pit Bulls.

I never said Dixie displayed ANY human aggression, if she did, I understand what you are saying, but there is no human aggression there what so ever!

Besides, I nEVER said I considered myself a breeder, let alone a good breeder. I explained the circumstances, and then replied with the FACT that I consider myself a good enough breeder GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES. In other words, I am glad to know all that I do given the place I am in. This breeding wasnt planned, but has happened, and now I have to do the best that I can do. I wasn't looking for permission or blessings, just maybe alittle moral support from some friends.

Forgive me if your post wasn't directed towards me, but I am at my wits end with what to do.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

1) stop advertising the breeding on your website

2) place all puppies for expenses only and require spay/neuter

3) do not breed your bitch again if she is not controllable off your property, whether it's dog or other animal aggression, as this is not typical or desireable temperament in your breed.

4) stop lying on forums like this. There is no way this was an accidental breeding, or a breeding without your knowledge. There is no possibility that your husband PLUS the stud dog owner of a titled dog did not realize your bitch is too young to be bred and does not have a hip number. No one shows a dog to a Grand without understanding a little about breeding practices, stud dog contracts, and what they will require of someone bringing a bitch to their dog.

The proof is in the pudding, what is the actual name of the sire of the litter?

 

[Mach1girl]

1) stop advertising the breeding on your website

2) place all puppies for expenses only and require spay/neuter

3) do not breed your bitch again if she is not controllable off your property, whether it's dog or other animal aggression, as this is not typical or desireable temperament in your breed.

4) stop lying on forums like this. There is no way this was an accidental breeding, or a breeding without your knowledge. There is no possibility that your husband PLUS the stud dog owner of a titled dog did not realize your bitch is too young to be bred and does not have a hip number. No one shows a dog to a Grand without understanding a little about breeding practices, stud dog contracts, and what they will require of someone bringing a bitch to their dog.


.
The proof is in the pudding, what is the actual name of the sire of the litter?

DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO! wHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?wHOMEVER YOU THINK YOU ARE, REMEMBER YOU ARE STILL NOTHING TO ME, SO DROP IT!

I will advertise the pups on my web site until I find them a proper home. The studs name is correct and true, and so is my story. My husband happens to come from a background not as fortunate as I where he had aquaintences that didnt care about the breeds, age, etc of their dogs before breeding. They just ixed to make a bad ass dog, he is still learning. I do not care if you beleive me or not, but you'd better not insist I am a liar again! You do not know me, and I do not care to know you. And you'd feel really small if you knew the pms and such I am getting from fellow members-advice, goofd for oyus, etc!

This topic is ended on my part. If I need assistance from here on out, I'll ask

 

[Rhino]

Out of 9, with one passed(didn't survive the flight to Canada)

Then the dog was not healthy to begin with. I moved to Florida with my husband (from the west coast of Canada) and I flew my 6 year old lab cross down. She did fine. I then flew her and one of our jack russells up for christmas. Both did fine. I also flew to Texas (from Florida) to pick up my 13 week old pup, and she too did just fine.

You have to have a current health certificate issued with in 7 days of flight. This indicates that the dog is sound enough to fly and involves an inspection of eyes, ears, heart, lungs, joints, teeth, temperatures, parasites, current vaccines... and gosh.. anything else the vet catches. EVERY airline also has strict regulations about what conditions (mostly temperature) the dogs may fly in. They will not fly under 42 degrees or over 84 degrees. This is because during lay overs while the plane is turned off, the cargo area is NOT temperature controlled, however it is while the dog is in transit. Very rarely can you find a direct flight that offers pet cargo service.

I'm was also a quarantine officer at a government posting in Australia and have flown and transported live stock (equine, bovine and some canines). Loosing an animal during transport is indicative of a pre-existing condition.

The only way I would suspect a death during transport in a healthy animal is if tranquilizers were used. They absolutely should NOT be used during air transport.

I would be EXTREMELY wary of a dogs health if it just up and passed during transport.

 

[MysticRealm]

Just from what I have heard and read about breeding, if you have one dog with a fault and the other dog doesn't have that fault at all and you breed them it doesn't mean that the pups with not get the fault b/c the one dog balances out the other dog. You can try and sometimes it works but it's whatever gene is more predominant.

 

[Beauceron]

I have to point out, not to re-start an argument but Mach, you keep mentioning your dogs lines, and how champions are in her background, that doesn't always guarantee conformation quality, I have 2 Beaucerons, have siblings, both are out of an International Champion female, my female is by a canadian/american champion, and my male is by another international champion, in thery both should be show dogs, however just my male is conformationally correct.

 

[Mach1girl]

Thank you, and yes, I understand this. Dix was actually puppy #7, and is correct, we just lucked out I guess. But I know, I am told the litter SHOULD be 50/50. With luck, that's how genetics work.
Anyway, I just pointed that out, out of defense. But I understand, and thanks for not attacking me.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Let's just all read this thread again.

From start to finish.

 

[Mach1girl]

I dont want to read it again, I was mean to you, and Im sorry.You just have to understand, I was slammed everywhere I went, and it was getting down to the wire and I needed help. Which you gave me. I wwas on the defense, as I knew the story and couldnt explain it anymore.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Ok, lets see. First, her bite as well as his(We know he is perfect, he has the titles,)Dixie:This is what the report from senior apbt ukc judge G.S has written:Normal incisor occlusion. Normal premolar tooth relationship. Overall, normal occlusal plane of lower and upper arches.
NextR Dxie Pride head: approximatly 2/3 the width compared to width of shoulders-normal. Seems to meet the 20% wideness at the beginning of the jawLower jaw is parallel to the ground during stack. NormalHeight verses legnth is proportioned.Normal.Eyes seem to be medium in size, round to almost almond shape and set well apart and low on the skull. Solid brown, no fault noted in coloration.

Ok, I am real busy, I have a family and 4 dogs to look after, so I am done for now. If you'd like, I will include the rest of this report tomorrow or later tonite. And so you know, the report was done at the UKC headquarters in Kalamazoo when Dixie turned 1 year of age. By a certified senior judge whom has many years experience. I am a friend, and had it done so as that I would know how she is for myself, since I figured I would never show her. He was honest, and told me I could be winning titles left and right with her. Maybe I am the chicken who is afraid to show her. Maybe I just dont want to bother fighting her to calm her down. Maybe I just want her as a pet. Either way, I will include the rest another time. Just to satisfy your curiosity. I will finish the pedigrees when i get a chance as well.

I just came across this thread, and while reading, I noticed that in the profile of Dixie, she is snipey. No underjaw at all. And that is something that bitches seem to pass very easily to their pups, and it is heck to ever get rid of that fault. Coming from Dobes which also are supposed to have depth of muzzle, I tend to notice such things. And in an APBT whose claim to fame is in their jaws I would think this might be an undesirable trait.

I sure do like her markings tho....I am a sucker for a parti-color!

 

[B33CPE]

Wow, my advice to everyone, Never talk about breeding on this forum, you will just get attacked and never get any useful information.

 

[RD]

Wow, my advice to everyone, Never talk about breeding on this forum, you will just get attacked and never get any useful information.

That's entirely untrue. It helps tremendously when people just suck it up and stop being so defensive. When you do that, you'll find that people actually give quite sound and useful advice.

 

[corsomom]

Mack1girl had quite a bit of help here from Red.

 

[rottiegirl]

Mack1girl had quite a bit of help here from Red.

Mach did get some excellent advice (red knows her stuff), but I personaly think that some of the remarks made by red were pretty hostile and uncalled for, in my opinion.

 

[corsomom]

I think maybe some of the hostility came from frustration over byb?