Owner watches her puppy being killed......
- Thread starter Red_ACD_for_me
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Um...Good luck with that. All RESPONSIBLE owners want aggression bred out, however, responsible people arent the ones breeding for aggression.
This dog didnt "hunt" another dog down. It just does NOT like other dogs. That is the definition of dog aggression-not friendly toward dogs. I have never met a dog aggressive pit bull, but I do know my mom's dog (lab mix) is extremly dog aggressive. She will snap at a dog if it comes within 20 feet at her. Mom actually had a foster pit mix & Ramona (her dog aggressive dog) lept about 5 feet forward to "warn" the foster. So no, they dont "hunt" down other animals but if the animal comes within their bubble, they will attack.
(Or this is what I have seen with mom's dog)
This dog didnt "hunt" another dog down. It just does NOT like other dogs. That is the definition of dog aggression-not friendly toward dogs. I have never met a dog aggressive pit bull, but I do know my mom's dog (lab mix) is extremly dog aggressive. She will snap at a dog if it comes within 20 feet at her. Mom actually had a foster pit mix & Ramona (her dog aggressive dog) lept about 5 feet forward to "warn" the foster. So no, they dont "hunt" down other animals but if the animal comes within their bubble, they will attack.
(Or this is what I have seen with mom's dog)
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound mean 
. That's just what's been my experience, and not just pit owners, lab owners too, and other short-coated breed owners. I groom my dogs myself, and I didn't understand why somebody wouldn't unless they were lazy, or had health problems and couldn't. There were a lot of lazy dog owners who brought in their little walking mats to be groomed.
Anyways though.
. That's just what's been my experience, and not just pit owners, lab owners too, and other short-coated breed owners. I groom my dogs myself, and I didn't understand why somebody wouldn't unless they were lazy, or had health problems and couldn't. There were a lot of lazy dog owners who brought in their little walking mats to be groomed.Anyways though.
I'm going a bit OT here & feel free to split the thread if needed, but I wanted to address this real quick.
For the record, dog fighting is NOT responsible for DA. In fact, although it can be related, it can also be completely unrelated. DA has nothing to do with whether or not a dog would have been a good pit dog. In fact, history shows that many Ch. & Gr. Ch. pit dogs seemed to know when it was time to "work" & when it wasn't & there are pictures showing them lying around with other dogs.
And there is DA in each & every breed out there & mutts too. Although not all breeds are characterized by DA, there are individual dogs within that breed that portray various levels of it. And since only the APBT was bred to be a pit dog, that throws a kink into the whole "dog fighting brought about DA" arguement.
And back on topic, I thought about it & I don't believe that the owner of the 'pit bull' should be fined in any way. They dropped their dog off believing that the Petsmart employees were responsible people & would see to it that there dog, & all the others, would be kept safe from harm. IMO it is Petsmart & the particular employee who was outright careless that should be held accountable.
For the record, dog fighting is NOT responsible for DA. In fact, although it can be related, it can also be completely unrelated. DA has nothing to do with whether or not a dog would have been a good pit dog. In fact, history shows that many Ch. & Gr. Ch. pit dogs seemed to know when it was time to "work" & when it wasn't & there are pictures showing them lying around with other dogs.
And there is DA in each & every breed out there & mutts too. Although not all breeds are characterized by DA, there are individual dogs within that breed that portray various levels of it. And since only the APBT was bred to be a pit dog, that throws a kink into the whole "dog fighting brought about DA" arguement.
And back on topic, I thought about it & I don't believe that the owner of the 'pit bull' should be fined in any way. They dropped their dog off believing that the Petsmart employees were responsible people & would see to it that there dog, & all the others, would be kept safe from harm. IMO it is Petsmart & the particular employee who was outright careless that should be held accountable.
Reggin, the least aggressive APBTs are not always the best candidates for breeding. A lot of the dogs with correct structure, working drive, temperament, health, etc. have some measure of fire when it comes to other dogs. It is an accepted part of their breed, as it is with many other breeds as well. Last time I bothered to look into it, the standards of many of the German breeds specify that aggression towards other dogs is not to be penalized.
I agree with Mia on this. When you put your dog in the hands of a place representing themselves as professional, it becomes their responsibility to handle the dog sensibly and keep it safe. Hot dogs have as much right to be groomed/vetted as any other. They should not be denied the use of dog facilities because they don't get along with other dogs. The APBT owners were not there to have their dog join a play group, for crying out loud. They wanted him groomed, but instead they get a fine because Petsmart screwed up.
I agree with Mia on this. When you put your dog in the hands of a place representing themselves as professional, it becomes their responsibility to handle the dog sensibly and keep it safe. Hot dogs have as much right to be groomed/vetted as any other. They should not be denied the use of dog facilities because they don't get along with other dogs. The APBT owners were not there to have their dog join a play group, for crying out loud. They wanted him groomed, but instead they get a fine because Petsmart screwed up.
S
very true, but more people need to start buying from responsible breeders and not bybs, so that is their fault. if you buy a badly bred dog and it goes after a puppy and kills it, then you get to pay a fine.
"Hunt" might be a strong word, but it did go out of its way to go after another dog. not just any dog either, a puppy. its not like the dogs were put together or the pit felt threatened.
maybe the fight started after the pit went up to the pup out of curiosity, or he wanted to fight the pup from the start. we dont know exactly what happened.
I strongly feel that if you properly socialize a pit when its a pup no matter how badly it was bred, then he shouldnt be extremely aggressive towards other dogs. They might not back down from a challenge, but they shouldnt just go after another dog with the intent to kill or severely injure like that. Just my opinion.
"Hunt" might be a strong word, but it did go out of its way to go after another dog. not just any dog either, a puppy. its not like the dogs were put together or the pit felt threatened.
maybe the fight started after the pit went up to the pup out of curiosity, or he wanted to fight the pup from the start. we dont know exactly what happened.
I strongly feel that if you properly socialize a pit when its a pup no matter how badly it was bred, then he shouldnt be extremely aggressive towards other dogs. They might not back down from a challenge, but they shouldnt just go after another dog with the intent to kill or severely injure like that. Just my opinion.
S
I am not saying that you should just breed any pit that is not aggressive. Of course they would have to conform to the breed standard and be free of health issues as well.
I agree completely that it is petsmarts fault. it would have never happened if the employees were doing their job. I am just saying that people need to properly socialize their dogs. I know a person who has a game bred pit whos parents were used for fighting, but since the pup was socialized with other dogs at a young age, he gets along with them just fine. That is why I feel that the owners should be fined. With proper socialization, the owners could have prevented this also.
It is the owners problem when they neglect to socialize their dog... esspecialy when the breed has a long history of dog aggression and dog fighting. Every breed should be socialized, period.
Another thing I wanted to point out. Pits fight to kill, unlike most other breeds. They dont quit untill the other dog is dead. Unlike a lot of pit bulls, other breeds fight untill the other dog submits. This doesnt happen 100% with every dog, I am just saying for the most part. I just think DG should be bred out as much as possible. I mean, who wants a dog that you couldnt let loose around other dogs, or cant let loose at the river for fear that he might come across another dog, or that you cant take to the vet without him lunging at other dogs (yes, some pits and other dogs are that bad), ect...
I understand that pit bulls arent the only ones who are dog aggressive. I know labs, poodles, goldens, ACDs, poms, pugs, and dobermans who are dog aggressive. Just to name a few.
I agree completely that it is petsmarts fault. it would have never happened if the employees were doing their job. I am just saying that people need to properly socialize their dogs. I know a person who has a game bred pit whos parents were used for fighting, but since the pup was socialized with other dogs at a young age, he gets along with them just fine. That is why I feel that the owners should be fined. With proper socialization, the owners could have prevented this also.
It is the owners problem when they neglect to socialize their dog... esspecialy when the breed has a long history of dog aggression and dog fighting. Every breed should be socialized, period.
Another thing I wanted to point out. Pits fight to kill, unlike most other breeds. They dont quit untill the other dog is dead. Unlike a lot of pit bulls, other breeds fight untill the other dog submits. This doesnt happen 100% with every dog, I am just saying for the most part. I just think DG should be bred out as much as possible. I mean, who wants a dog that you couldnt let loose around other dogs, or cant let loose at the river for fear that he might come across another dog, or that you cant take to the vet without him lunging at other dogs (yes, some pits and other dogs are that bad), ect...
I understand that pit bulls arent the only ones who are dog aggressive. I know labs, poodles, goldens, ACDs, poms, pugs, and dobermans who are dog aggressive. Just to name a few.
It doesn't bother me. And my dog isn't even that hot. I do let her loose at times, but her training is very strong. Quite frankly, this breed isn't easy enough for most people. That doesn't indicate to me that we should make it easier, but take it out of the hands of inexperienced owners. I'm sure that folks who own true working dogs would agree with me. If nobody wants the APBT because its too hot for them, that would frankly be utopia for me, because it would go back to being owned only by those who are committed.
I just wanted to add that proper socialization will not prevent all instances of aggression. I hope nobody thinks that just because their dog is socialized, they're going to get along with 100% of other dogs. Dogs have always fought amongst themselves for various reasons. We don't always know why they do it.
I just wanted to add that proper socialization will not prevent all instances of aggression. I hope nobody thinks that just because their dog is socialized, they're going to get along with 100% of other dogs. Dogs have always fought amongst themselves for various reasons. We don't always know why they do it.
S
Socialization curbs aggression to a certain point. How do you think so many people bring their pitties to dog parks with no problems? I highly doubt a well socialized dog would go out of its way to kill a puppy. just my opinion. and I am not just saying that that is the case for sure in this story. A pittie should never back down from being challenged and they are very dominant, but I wouldnt want to own one who would go after another dog just because its in his presence.
Accidents happen even if you are a responsible owner, no matter if you can handle a dog that is "hot" or not. I wouldnt want my dog to accidently get out of the house or get loose from the leash and go kill someones dog. for one, the owner of the other dog might severely injure or kill my dog trying to save his own pet. Also, if an accident happens... more bad media for the breed eventhough its only dog aggression. Most people dont understand the difference between human and dog aggression. My point is... its better to be safe than sorry.
I am not saying you are right or wrong. I am just explaining my own point of veiw.
Accidents happen even if you are a responsible owner, no matter if you can handle a dog that is "hot" or not. I wouldnt want my dog to accidently get out of the house or get loose from the leash and go kill someones dog. for one, the owner of the other dog might severely injure or kill my dog trying to save his own pet. Also, if an accident happens... more bad media for the breed eventhough its only dog aggression. Most people dont understand the difference between human and dog aggression. My point is... its better to be safe than sorry.
I am not saying you are right or wrong. I am just explaining my own point of veiw.
That's good, IMO. I understand there will be some anger towards the dog, but its not his fault at all. The owners did what they could.
Reggin, to each their own. And FWIW, I agree with you on socialization. I started mine as soon as she was vaccinated and it was safe to bring her out. However, I think dog parks are a foolhardy expedition for the breed. I think there needs to be a common sense line somewhere in the middle where you train and socialize your dog, but don't have unreasonable expectations on his behavior. There have been several times where my dog would've been within her rights to attack another dog, but she responded as she'd been trained. Still, if she had followed her genetics over her training, I wouldn't have faulted her.
Reggin, to each their own. And FWIW, I agree with you on socialization. I started mine as soon as she was vaccinated and it was safe to bring her out. However, I think dog parks are a foolhardy expedition for the breed. I think there needs to be a common sense line somewhere in the middle where you train and socialize your dog, but don't have unreasonable expectations on his behavior. There have been several times where my dog would've been within her rights to attack another dog, but she responded as she'd been trained. Still, if she had followed her genetics over her training, I wouldn't have faulted her.
"City prosecutor Marty Conboy said that based on the information he's received, the owner cannot be held criminally accountable. He said it appears the pit bull's owner did everything he could do, including telling the PetsMart employees to keep his dog away from others"
I avoided this thread before b/c I have no desire to get embroiled in pit bull discussions, but the above decision makes no sense (morally, legally is another story) whatever the breed. If the owner knew the dog was dog-aggressive, he had no business bringing it into an environment like a Petsmart. That's irresponsible behavior. With a dog that aggressive, it's not enough to claim you 'warned' someone of it's tendency before you handed over control of it.
I avoided this thread before b/c I have no desire to get embroiled in pit bull discussions, but the above decision makes no sense (morally, legally is another story) whatever the breed. If the owner knew the dog was dog-aggressive, he had no business bringing it into an environment like a Petsmart. That's irresponsible behavior. With a dog that aggressive, it's not enough to claim you 'warned' someone of it's tendency before you handed over control of it.
W
I had to quit reading after a few responses. Come on, you're not going to get rid of 100% dog aggression in any breed. Sorry, it ain't happening. Just because a dog is dog aggressive doens't mean it came from a byb, was poorly socialized, etc. Not every dog likes over other dog. Its so ingrained in their heads and hardwired thru their bodies, humans aren't going to get rid of it entirely. Its a survival mechanism.
In this story, there is absolutely zero evidence that this dog came from a byb, was used for fighting, was severly dog aggressive etc. They have a video, there must be something on it that made the judge let the dog go back to the owners, cause all pits are vilified to the nth degree in a case like this. The fact that most people involved seemed upset, not outraged at the pitbull should tell you something. For all you know it was playtime that got too rough.
and yes, if you drop your dog off at a PROFESSIONAL DOG CARE place and tell them to keep your dog away from others they **** well better do it.
In this story, there is absolutely zero evidence that this dog came from a byb, was used for fighting, was severly dog aggressive etc. They have a video, there must be something on it that made the judge let the dog go back to the owners, cause all pits are vilified to the nth degree in a case like this. The fact that most people involved seemed upset, not outraged at the pitbull should tell you something. For all you know it was playtime that got too rough.
and yes, if you drop your dog off at a PROFESSIONAL DOG CARE place and tell them to keep your dog away from others they **** well better do it.
Morally? By who's standards? Yours?
The owner was acting in a responsible manner when they advised the staff at PetsMart that their dog was to have no contact with other dogs. Actually, there should never be any contact between dogs at their grooming facilities anyways. It was not the owners fault this happened, nor the dogs fault. It lies totally on the shoulders of the employee who neglected to secure the cage properly. I'm sure you would be singing another tune if the dog that was being picked up was an adult Golden Retriever and it ended up killing a pup that escaped from the cage due to the negligence of an employee.
We all here know your views on this breed of dog and to say
goes against what I have seen from you previously.
Too much....
The owner was acting in a responsible manner when they advised the staff at PetsMart that their dog was to have no contact with other dogs. Actually, there should never be any contact between dogs at their grooming facilities anyways. It was not the owners fault this happened, nor the dogs fault. It lies totally on the shoulders of the employee who neglected to secure the cage properly. I'm sure you would be singing another tune if the dog that was being picked up was an adult Golden Retriever and it ended up killing a pup that escaped from the cage due to the negligence of an employee.
We all here know your views on this breed of dog and to say
goes against what I have seen from you previously.
Too much....