On voting for McCain
- Thread starter noludoru
- Start date
I can't give you the statistics, partially because they haven't been worked out yet. But the idea, at least in theory, is that if you CAN afford insurance, you have to pay for it. You will have a choice to go with a number of plans (including the gov't one) but you will have to pay. It won't be free. If you can pay some, but not all, then the gov't will subsidize that. If you can't afford at all, the gov't will pay. IF you have children, you must buy them insurance if you can, or if you can't, I presume they'll be enrolled in the government plan. SO, its not like Hawaii, with free healthcare for all children (at least, I believe that is how that worked), and I don't know a lot about MA, except that it was a lot of free healthcare. THe idea is that if you pay, you pay, if you can pay some, you pay some, if you can't pay, its free, or mostly free.
But it is none of things I've heard it described as: it is not Universal Care, it is not socialized medicine in the normal sense of the world, it is not the nationalization of health care, its not the Canadian system, and it is not the government "taking over" your health care. Its an insurance system based off the one we have now, designed to make insurance more affordable to more people, especially those who can't get it through their employer. Most importantly, you can keep your private insurance, and your doctor, if you can afford them . . . and employers will still get tax breaks to give you insurance. You can argue with the cost, and the possibility that taxes may be raised (though likely on the wealthy, which Mr. Obama seems to think *I*am). There are definately things to quibble with . . . but its been very unfairly described as something totally different from what he's proposing.
And it is true that one way or another, whether your taxes are raised or not, some of your money is going to other people's health care. But one, that's true now, and two, I would view it as another insurance policy. If I lose my job, or become direly ill and can't work, and I can't afford my fancy health insurance plan, then my taxes have subsidized a back-up plan that I can afford until I get back on my feet.
I am personally willing to give him the benefit of the doubt . . . its a pretty good idea in principle, and we do have to do something about healthcare in this country. Its crazy-expensive, and for those who do not get good plans through their jobs, hard to get (and that includes lots of working people, even small business owners and god help you if you don't have access to group insurance and you have health problems). I like it better than McCain's plan, which I fear will leave some people worse off, especially people who have good insurance through their jobs.
But it is none of things I've heard it described as: it is not Universal Care, it is not socialized medicine in the normal sense of the world, it is not the nationalization of health care, its not the Canadian system, and it is not the government "taking over" your health care. Its an insurance system based off the one we have now, designed to make insurance more affordable to more people, especially those who can't get it through their employer. Most importantly, you can keep your private insurance, and your doctor, if you can afford them . . . and employers will still get tax breaks to give you insurance. You can argue with the cost, and the possibility that taxes may be raised (though likely on the wealthy, which Mr. Obama seems to think *I*am). There are definately things to quibble with . . . but its been very unfairly described as something totally different from what he's proposing.
And it is true that one way or another, whether your taxes are raised or not, some of your money is going to other people's health care. But one, that's true now, and two, I would view it as another insurance policy. If I lose my job, or become direly ill and can't work, and I can't afford my fancy health insurance plan, then my taxes have subsidized a back-up plan that I can afford until I get back on my feet.
I am personally willing to give him the benefit of the doubt . . . its a pretty good idea in principle, and we do have to do something about healthcare in this country. Its crazy-expensive, and for those who do not get good plans through their jobs, hard to get (and that includes lots of working people, even small business owners and god help you if you don't have access to group insurance and you have health problems). I like it better than McCain's plan, which I fear will leave some people worse off, especially people who have good insurance through their jobs.
Lil, then what happens to the Medicaid system? For instance, I know many people who can afford insurance for their entire families...at the very least for their kids. But they choose to ride the Medicaid system. How is the government seriously going to intervene on each individual's behalf and force them to change?
Probably because they are using the term wrong. He's not proposing actual univeral care for everyone . . . but he is proposing a more "universal" system. Its a little wierd, I admit. I'll try to find the analyses that have been done of his plan when I get to work tomorrow . . . but you can poke around for them on the internet. Its also been called "universal coverage" everyone has health insurance, which is more accurate, but incorrect. . . and people in his campaign have slipped on that one. But its not "universal care" as show in other countries, nor is it universal coverage, because its not mandatory.
Here's a rough side by side:
http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=5&c=16
There's no doubt that each are sticking to their party's philosophies. But both plans have been badly misreprisented.
Edit: Mikoda, Medicaid and Medicare will continue to exist and probably be expanded. That will likely be the care for those who can't pay. In fact, I think one of the flaws is that there may not be provisions to transision from those systems to a more "insurance" like one for people who can afford contributions, or, indeed, pay outright. There will definately have to be a crackdown on Medicare and Mediaid fraud.
Here's a rough side by side:
http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=5&c=16
There's no doubt that each are sticking to their party's philosophies. But both plans have been badly misreprisented.
Edit: Mikoda, Medicaid and Medicare will continue to exist and probably be expanded. That will likely be the care for those who can't pay. In fact, I think one of the flaws is that there may not be provisions to transision from those systems to a more "insurance" like one for people who can afford contributions, or, indeed, pay outright. There will definately have to be a crackdown on Medicare and Mediaid fraud.
Yes, though your insurance might be less expensive, and you have a fall back. On the other hand, under McCain's plan your taxes will pay out right to give tax credits to people to buy healthcare (and a credit means that if they didn't pay that much in taxes they still get the moeny). And under the current system, not only do you pay for Medicaid and Medicare, you pay for the funding given to hostpials by the government so they don't go broke treating poor people who come into the emergency room who can't pay. And that's before we get to what the states pay.
So, one way or another, you're going to subsidize other people's healthcare. That's not really a choice you are offered, and maybe that stinks, but frankly, there's no country on earth that you'd want to live in that doesn't do this to some extent. You will retain your choice as to what healthcare you want, who treats you, and what treatments you get. But on the money side, its a matter of how much, whose healthcare, and, frankly, what's in it for me?
As for the abortion issue, honestly, I don't think its been discussed. I know that its an issue in some states. But I'm not sure if that's a reason to nix Obama's plan on its own. More a reason to write him and Congress and loudly voice that you do not wish to pay for elective abortions . . . which is actually something you are likely to get, because you won't be alone. And, frankly, with McCain's plan, its totally out of their government's hands . . .they give people money, they buy healthcare with it . . . if they want insurance that covers abortion, its theirs . . so its just a matter of how many steps there are.
So, one way or another, you're going to subsidize other people's healthcare. That's not really a choice you are offered, and maybe that stinks, but frankly, there's no country on earth that you'd want to live in that doesn't do this to some extent. You will retain your choice as to what healthcare you want, who treats you, and what treatments you get. But on the money side, its a matter of how much, whose healthcare, and, frankly, what's in it for me?
As for the abortion issue, honestly, I don't think its been discussed. I know that its an issue in some states. But I'm not sure if that's a reason to nix Obama's plan on its own. More a reason to write him and Congress and loudly voice that you do not wish to pay for elective abortions . . . which is actually something you are likely to get, because you won't be alone. And, frankly, with McCain's plan, its totally out of their government's hands . . .they give people money, they buy healthcare with it . . . if they want insurance that covers abortion, its theirs . . so its just a matter of how many steps there are.
I just know that Obama has spent TONS of money here in Indiana,,,,he's coming again this week . Yes, I do believe that on paper he is an American citizen , but not through birth here . They have come up with his Kenya birth certificate . Would be interesting if we had a Chaz election . All on the QT without comments . Only those of voting age . Obama ----McCain ----Other . Anyone set it up ???
It was Gina . . . what do you think? :rofl1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_JTV9E3J48