Nailing Cesar Millan With Tough, Truthful, Appropriate Questions - It's About Time

[Greenmagick]

Them focus on that. Not on one man that is doing what he can to help dogs the way HE knows how. F*ck I would rather send a dog to him then have him/her spoiled by any of the members on this board!

First, the biggest issue is others are looking up to him as example of what is appropriate. He spouts off stuff as facts that are not.

Second, just because dogs get abused worse doesnt mean you ignore ones that arent as bad.

One of my friends is a very active trainer around here....do you know how many dogs she has had to work her butt off to rehab after the dog was ruined by Milan type methods? It is a big issue.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I'm almost impressed we found someone who'd rather a dog go to someone who kicks dogs, black boxes, and all together shuts them down, than someone who'll love and respect the dog?

My bosses BC Milo had a few sessions with CM before he came to her as a "could not be fixed" case.

The dog, no joke, runs from the room if they turn on his show. The voice alone terrifies the dog. What can cause that?

 

[yoko]

People want PRACTICAL advice for every day issues and we need to be able to recognize that and give them that in a user-friendly format. Hell, half of them don’t seek out a trainer until they’re at the point that they don’t even like the dog anymore. Telling them that this way is “nicer†is meaningless. They just want a solution and they don’t really care if the dog likes it or not.
We need to be talking in terms of effective and easy as opposed to dog friendly and science based.

I think this is hitting the nail on the head.

Obviously I don't compete much and the extent of Yoshi's 'job' history is visiting a nursing home and the homeless shelter. She doesn't know a TON of tricks. But even showing those off people are WAY more impressed she'll get into her crate downstairs when asked regardless of where in the house we are.

Sit, lay down, stay, roll over, up are pretty much the only 'tricks' most of my friends with dogs want their dog to understand so when you show off the amazing handstand or 10 step trick your dog does it's a 'that's nice but irrelevant' response for most of them.

But we've said it a million times on here. We can't hold people to Chazhound expectations. We need to work on what we expect from them as dog owners as well as alter what we show off when trying to show them basic training techniques.

 

[Danefied]

And what is this true abuse you are talking about? Abuse is abuse.

No silly... See, if you rescue a few Katrina dogs that negates the fact that you choke, kick, and punch dogs and saddle them with a bite history. You know, kind of how a wife beater negates the broken jaw with a dozen roses. Duh...

Get your priorities straight!

Like yours are?

 

[JessLough]

It's like someone focusing on a person throwing away a 5 cent can as opposed to focusing on all the money being pissed away in the war in the Middle East. Get your priorities straight!

Oh don't you worry. I as one of the head people of a rescue, that's where my priorities lay

 

[Greenmagick]

I have no titles on my dogs (ok well Ivy has her CGC and Qcumber is Puppy Star) and have no plans to compete. My guys dont really have many tricks. What I want and have are stable house dogs...dogs that are part of the family and interact safely with us. Dogs who have basic manners.

 

[yoko]

No silly... See, if you rescue a few Katrina dogs that negates the fact that you choke, kick, and punch dogs and saddle them with a bite history. You know, kind of how a wife beater negates the broken jaw with a dozen roses. Duh...

Like yours are?

lol

Oh man I forgot about that! Well by all means send a few others to their death in their place.

 

[JessLough]

The funny part is... One of the parts of rescue is to get rid of the misinformation you're spewing ... So it IS a priority

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Said dog that was labeled "unfixable" by CM, here he is playing with Denis.

He was "untrainable" and an obsessive herder.

Humorously he's basically the border collie version of Backup. I would hate for CM to touch Backup.

Spoiled? Yes, but really, WHAT is wrong with this photo?

 

[Emily]

Well obviously that dog needs to be dead. Like yesterday.

 

[yoko]

Said dog that was labeled "unfixable" by CM, here he is playing with Denis.

He was "untrainable" and an obsessive herder.

Humorously he's basically the border collie version of Backup. I would hate for CM to touch Backup.

Spoiled? Yes, but really, WHAT is wrong with this photo?

Well obviously the issue is he is carrying a toy in each of those pics. Carrying a toy is a sign of happiness that is unallowed in 'correct' training methods. He should only carry a toy when YOU say he can XD

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

LOL, seriously, it amazes me. He's NOT a simple dog but he's happy, fun, hilarious, and has learned a lot since being with MK.

He's amazing on stock with all raw talent but he'll likely never be an agility or obedience star. He's similar to Backup, so much speed and intensity that it can be extremely hard to slow and focus, he just wants to gogogo, slowing down and thinking is stupid an causes him to sometimes either get frustrated or just shut down in protest. Abuse would never get you anywhere with this kind of dog.

He lives a "spoiled" life on a large property with horses, his own sheep, several other collies, a pool, tons of toys, and endless fun. What is so wrong with that outcome?

 

[BostonBanker]

Did anyone look at that book that did "follow-ups" on a bunch of the dogs from the Dog Whisperer show? I remember seeing it a couple of years ago. I didn't buy it, but spent a bit of time flipping through it at the store. There were a shocking percentage (I'd guess close to 50%, although as I said, it's been years) where the follow up was "The dog was euthanized six months later". I'm trying to think of another job where a 50% success rate is considered okay. I know if our performance testing at work drops below 96%, we start getting lectures.

Interestingly enough, the trainer I work with has said the same thing - that was blows people's minds more than anything else when she's out in public for demos and such is her dog's down stay. I get all excited and gooey eyed for dogs that are amped up and driving for tugs and hitting their contacts, but I suppose most of America is looking for something else!

 

[Emily]

For the record, regarding all the title talk, I wasn't suggesting that a dog must have titles to be well trained or worthwhile. I just found the suggestion that my dog was vicious and stupid kind of hilarious, when she's an incredibly reliable partner both in everyday life and performance venues. I hope that was clear.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Boston, no, I'm not sure I've heard of it? I do know however because of the non-disclosure waiver they must sign its unlikely to get a ton of detail.

For example, the pit bull who was adopted and kept attacking its owners and people but CM pushed it over its threshold? That dog, from what i understand, eventually put one owner in the hospital and a rescue took the dog only to deem it unsafe and put it down.

 

[yoko]

Did anyone look at that book that did "follow-ups" on a bunch of the dogs from the Dog Whisperer show? I remember seeing it a couple of years ago. I didn't buy it, but spent a bit of time flipping through it at the store. There were a shocking percentage (I'd guess close to 50%, although as I said, it's been years) where the follow up was "The dog was euthanized six months later". I'm trying to think of another job where a 50% success rate is considered okay. I know if our performance testing at work drops below 96%, we start getting lectures.

Interestingly enough, the trainer I work with has said the same thing - that was blows people's minds more than anything else when she's out in public for demos and such is her dog's down stay. I get all excited and gooey eyed for dogs that are amped up and driving for tugs and hitting their contacts, but I suppose most of America is looking for something else!

I've always wondered about what happened after the show but didn't know there was ever a book released.

 

[AllisonPitbullLvr]

That's why I stated "this is only a Wikipedia article but it gives a general outline". Do you have any illiteracy programs offered locally?

LOL someone who uses Wikipedia is questioning my reading ability. I read what you said, and if even you can recognize it as a less than reputable source, why not find something that actually supports whatever asinine point you were trying to make? I don't think my literacy is at question here.

 

[Laurelin]

How is it that if you do more than just average pet training according to some people you are 'spoiling' your dogs? That makes no sense on any level. Higher than average amount of training = spoiled? I see that every now and then and I never get it.

Or that training sports with a clicker and treats or other reward is effective but you absolutely cannot ever teach every day life stuff with that method? Uh what? NO ONE here is saying food is the only reward, it's just often a good one to use for a lot of dogs, btw. But really? It's okay to teach complex behaviors like agility or tricks with positive reinforcement but you can't teach the dog to behave that way?

 

[yoko]

Also I don't get the 'what happens when I don't have treats?' question.

Yes I used treats to train Yoshi. She loves food and is super food motivated. But I only used it to get the actions I wanted. I rarely if ever have treats now unless we are working on something new.

You don't use treats for forever or in every situation.

 

[JessLough]

My mom wants to know what size of it dogs we should be throwing at her.. . Full hotdogs? Pieces? Jumbo dogs? How much should we be spending on hot dogs?