Luna's First Fight

[NicoleLJ]

Mandy just because someone is well versed in dogs, has tons of experience doesn't mean they are perfect or can't make mistakes. Sorry I am human and not a perfect person. Sorry that I did not do what you would have done. To solve the issue I went looking for a stick to give to the other dog. That way there would be no jelousy which is what I assumed wrongly was the issue. Sorry Sorry Sorry a 100 times sorry. Gesh guess you are perfect and never made a mistake in your life. Wish I could say the same.

As for Luna and her fear issues we must be doing something right since in 3 1/2 months she has progressed leaps and bounds. We may have made a mistake a few days ago but it doesn't show on her. She was awsome tonight with the dogs and people. Looking for attention from both.

Here are pictures and a video from tonight. We saw two regulars that we walk with and a couple of new dogs as well

 

[NicoleLJ]

And a video of our otter lol

With how much Luna loves the water she has been deemed the otter by some of the regulars at the park.

 

[Tahla9999]

It is no surprise that most of the people who are attacking dog parks like they are death chambers are bulldog owners. Any online bulldog community will hack you up if you even mention walking near a dog park. They have a good reason, of course, but then any mentioning of dog park in any discussion will cause most to go crazy with entitlement and have that ''I'm a better dog owner than you because I don't go, so there, because I'm ultra-safe owner, neener'' vibe in there post as if they been to hell in back in there dog park experience.

I have a bull breed so I dont go with him, but I do go with a friend once every week with her golden. I'm happy to say that in the future, if I have a dog-park dog, meaning a dog that has good socalization skills, know how to react to aggressors, and great overall dog manners I would go.

I use to behave just like most bully owners to dog parks, but only because the bulldog community hammered the message in me that all dog parks are just SO HORRIBLE and should be avoided like a plage. After going to a nice dog park, one where dogs arent cramp in little areas because the space is so wide that dogs arent even force to interact with each other if they dont want to, with a nice pond and where the regulars at the dog park are very good owners who keep in eye on there dogs and will call out any owner with a dog who is misbehaving, my eyes have open up to the fact that you can't lump every dog park in one category. Are there dog parks that I would avoid and would bring ANY dog to. Sure. Are they are risk to going to dog parks? Yes. There are risk to taking your dog out for a walk too. Or taking them to an on leash park. Fran dog was attack in an on-leash park. What we know for sure what messes up ANY good moment is stupid dog owners, and they are EVERYWHERE.

And really, dog parks are for people who are just lazy? I know a person with a flat coated retriever who wakes up everyday early morning to take her dog to the large dog park so her dog can have some decent excerise before she leave to go to work for half the day. This dog energy is outstanding and it loves to run. She doesn't have much of a yard so she goes to a dog park to let the dog really move it legs. She walks the dog too but walking is just NOT enough for a dog like that, nor is it fast enough to tire out the dog so she could to work on time.

 

[adojrts]

Just a little note concerning aggression and dog sports, since it was mentioned a few times.

Taken from NAFA (North American Flyball Assoc.) Rule Book 2010.

(d) Penalty -- A dog will be barred from future competition immediately upon the second
excusal for aggression. Any dog listed on a timesheet at a subsequent tournament after
receiving a second aggression excusal will result in the penalties set forth in Section 7.6 -
Penalties for Ineligible Dogs Running.

So unlike many dog parks, continuted aggression and attacks are dealt with, same in agility. 1 incident = probation for 2 yrs (3 yrs in Flyball), 2nd incident= your out for good.

Considering that, people tend to either deal with the problem and fix the dog or they don't play. Therefore IMO, the risk is lower at dog sport events.

 

[NicoleLJ]

But the fact remains that it can and does happen and that is the point I was making. No place is 100 % safe from dog aggression issues. It can and will happen any where. So each person has to weigh the risks and decide for themselves whether it is worth it to them or not. Whether it is a dog park, dog sports or any place really. Some people go hiking in the mountains where there are bears and moutain lions and there is a risk the dogs can get attacked and killed. But the person weighs the risks and decides for themselves if it is something they want to do with their dog. Does not make them irresponsible, ignorant or the like. Just makes it a personal choice.

 

[sparks19]

I think your attempt to make fun of me in such a ridiculously juvinile way and completely miss my point is pretty hilarious. Otherwise, I feel really sorry for you.

awww isn't that nice that we feel sorry for each other. I'm sorry that you feel the need to come into a thread and belittle everyone who doesn't do what you do and make blanket statements about how anyone who takes their dog to the dog park are lazy and equating going to the dog park with shooting someone in the head and generally just to insult people and then get indignant when someone pulls the same on you

You make ridiculous statements and you will get them in return

 

[Dizzy]

OMG......

I have been in plenty of scenarios with snarling dogs and....


WE DON'T HAVE DOG PARKS!!!

Zomg, best just never go outdoors EVER EVER.

 

[Danefied]

My issue with this whole story is that you claim to be an expert in dog training and behaviour and have trained and worked with HUNDREDS of dogs (as you have said in previous threads). It doesn't take an expert to figure out that the dog that was "growling and snarling" at yours is trouble. You should have been able to read that dog loud and clear and hollered to the owners to come remove it and body block the dog until they did and then moved to a different part. If you're really that experienced in dogs you shouldn't have made the mistake to let that dog keep coming back to harass your dogs.

Dog parks are fine if you yourself pay attention and be your dog's advocate. Pay attention to your dogs and any dogs around you and protect your dogs so they don't have to protect themselves. A fearful dog looks to you to be it's guardian and when you let them down that's when they're going to start to escalate.

Thank you for saying nicely what needed to be said. Its not a dog park issue to me, its about being a strong advocate for your dog and not pretending to be something you're not.

Sorry Sorry Sorry a 100 times sorry. Gesh guess you are perfect and never made a mistake in your life. Wish I could say the same.

I think you're missing the point. Its not about having made one mistake, its about how you continually present yourself here as an expert, shoot down anyone else's opinion or suggestion saying you know what you're doing and you've done this with hundreds of dogs, yet with post after post you show yourself to NOT know what you're doing. My eight year olds know not to let a dog be harassed for one minute, let alone 10. And this is the dog who is supposed to be your service dog?? I can't in a million years imagine any SD partner allowing their dog to be in that sort of position.

I don't know about anyone else, but to me that makes me wonder what else you're embellishing and inventing. Not to mention, I have my own personal issues with being taken for a fool. (ie: I don't take it well.)

This forum seems pretty open to all types, its not a place where you will be berated for lack of knowledge or experience. In fact I've found quite the opposite, this is a great place to ask for help, suggestions, guidance and/or support. You don't have to be anything you're not to get support here

 

[NicoleLJ]

I have never made myself into something I am not and I have never embellished anything. If you choose to not believe it that is your choice. I have worked with hundreds of dogs. I have worked in rescue for many years and was able to reabilatate many many dogs. I am no expert in any way shape or form. I do not proffesionally train dogs. I have been published in magazines though for my training advice articles and I can easily prove that.

I don't shoot down anyone elses experience. But I do go with what works for me. And just because I don't follow other peoples advice does not mean I don't know what I am doing or what would work for my dog. There are MANY ways to train dogs. New ways are being learned every year. I love to learn and try new ways. But I do know what works for me and what doesn't from trying different things. And just because I have a lot of experience in dogs I can be honest and say I do make mistakes. I am human. Sometimes I am not as vigulant as I should be, sometimes I am not as quick as I should be, and sometimes I just let my mind wander. **** happens. Does not mean I don't have a clue.

I can admit what I do know and don't know. I can admit that there have been dogs that I have not been able to work with. That I have tried and either from lack of experience in what that dog needed or lack of knowledge at the time I was unable to do what was right for that dog. We are all learning and growing.

I am not the type that only posts the good I do. I post the stupid stuff as well. It shows I am not perfect and can admit it. I do not believe there is a dog trainer out there that can train every single type of dog in the world. I do not believe there is a trainer out there that has a lot of knowledge that has not made mistakes. We all do. As for training my main knowledge is in rehabilitating dogs from sever abuse. It is not in training them to go hunting, lure coarsing, sch and so in. I can admit that easily. I can train for a lot of Service Dog Tasks and obedience and off leash work as well. I take pride in the fact that I have helped rehabilitate so many dogs so they could go on to actually LIVE. Lots of people brush that work off as if it is not training becase it is not for a serious sport. And I would like to tell them it is training. Some of the hardest training to take a dog that has been terrorized to the point of being unsafe and show them the world is safe and then teach them how to live in a loving home and be trainable and then teach them basic obedience so that they more easily find a home.

So my knowledge may not lay where yours do, or with sports or so on. But it is a lot of experience. I have done important work and I have changed the lives for many dogs and am proud of it.

 

[Renee750il]

I'll have to say that it's always a tricky situation when an unknown dog is coming on strong to yours.

Do you yell excitedly and possibly stir both dogs up even more?

Do you get in between them? And turn a possible dog fight into something that has to be reported?

Do you throw something at the aggressor and hope to distract it? What if that break in attention is just what your dog is waiting for to dive in, making YOUR dog the attacker?

Hindsight is 20/20 -- cliched but true, and really, isn't it better that people can come here and relate their experiences and let other people learn from them without being attacked? There's nothing wrong with pointing out what shoulda/coulda happened and any responsible, caring dog owner would be foolish not to discuss that and what might be a better reaction/solution next time, but that's not going to happen very effectively when there's a bunch of stiff-legged, hair bristling reaction going on -- sometimes from both sides.

 

[NicoleLJ]

Hindsight is 20/20 -- cliched but true, and really, isn't it better that people can come here and relate their experiences and let other people learn from them without being attacked? There's nothing wrong with pointing out what shoulda/coulda happened and any responsible, caring dog owner would be foolish not to discuss that and what might be a better reaction/solution next time, but that's not going to happen very effectively when there's a bunch of stiff-legged, hair bristling reaction going on -- sometimes from both sides.

I 100% agree.

 

[Shakou]

awww isn't that nice that we feel sorry for each other. I'm sorry that you feel the need to come into a thread and belittle everyone who doesn't do what you do and make blanket statements about how anyone who takes their dog to the dog park are lazy and equating going to the dog park with shooting someone in the head and generally just to insult people and then get indignant when someone pulls the same on you

You make ridiculous statements and you will get them in return

LOL uh, I never said people who go to dogparks are lazy, nor did I insult anyone, sweetiepie. Did you actually read my posts or did you just skim
this thread? Otherwise you would have read the part where I said I was a dog park person for years, and at by far more then one location, since my husband and I travel all over the states with our dog. Yes, things can happen no matter where you are, but you know what? I've seen more dogs hurt, mangled, and in some situations even killed at dog parks in the last two years then I have ever seen..... Uh... Anywhere in my life? Oh that's right. In the 28 years of my life and involvement with dogs, I've NEVER seen dogs fight and rip each other apart, restricted on leash, like I have at dog parks, where it was a bi-monthly event.

And just for the record, this has NOTHING to do with me owning a bulldog breed. I wouldn't take ANY breed dog to a park.

 

[kady05]

awww isn't that nice that we feel sorry for each other. I'm sorry that you feel the need to come into a thread and belittle everyone who doesn't do what you do and make blanket statements about how anyone who takes their dog to the dog park are lazy

Pst.. that was me, not Shakou. Might want to read a little further before you go attacking the wrong person

 

[Linds]

Pst.. that was me, not Shakou. Might want to read a little further before you go attacking the wrong person

And I'm still honestly curious about how that makes a person lazy.

I'm going to assume you never took the time to read any posts I've ever made on the subject of dog parks.

Well, sadly you assume wrong. I just didn't really have anything to say to you or about your earlier post(s). I took issue with and only referenced your roulette post which I still find to be insulting and a completely inaccurate analogy. But I'm thinking we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Laurelin]

I think part of the problem is people always assume a dog park looks like the one they have near them. Where I used to live there were 3 'dog parks'. One was a maybe acre big fenced in area with NOTHING in it that was always packed to the brim with dogs. The second was fenced in but much bigger and had a small dog side and a large dog side, a lake, and lots of space. On weekends at peak hours it was crowded but you could easily go off hours and there would only be a couple other dogs. The third had no fence and had trails and a lake and was massive. Some people would gather at the lake and let their dogs play but most would just hike. It was easy to avoid other dogs and I rarely ever saw any issues. All the issues I saw were started by ONE specific dog. I took my two there all the time and never had a problem.

Not all dog parks are throwing dozens of dogs of all sizes into a barren little fenced area.

 

[sparks19]

LOL uh, I never said people who go to dogparks are lazy, nor did I insult anyone, sweetiepie. Did you actually read my posts or did you just skim
this thread? Otherwise you would have read the part where I said I was a dog park person for years, and at by far more then one location, since my husband and I travel all over the states with our dog. Yes, things can happen no matter where you are, but you know what? I've seen more dogs hurt, mangled, and in some situations even killed at dog parks in the last two years then I have ever seen..... Uh... Anywhere in my life? Oh that's right. In the 28 years of my life and involvement with dogs, I've NEVER seen dogs fight and rip each other apart, restricted on leash, like I have at dog parks, where it was a bi-monthly event.

And just for the record, this has NOTHING to do with me owning a bulldog breed. I wouldn't take ANY breed dog to a park.

Hey you are the one that took exception to my post I didn't quote anyone you said I was making fun of you

That original post was directed at everyone who is making any owner who takes their dogs to the dog park look like uncaring monsters who are playing with their dogs lives which is just a ridiculous statement.

I stand by my statement that if you come into a thread and make ridiculous blanket statements you are going to get an equal reaction

I used to take my two to the dog park all the time. the only reason I don't now is because I have a small child and a dog park is no place for a small child but it can be an excellent place for a dog and imagine that... they are still alive.

 

[sparks19]

Pst.. that was me, not Shakou. Might want to read a little further before you go attacking the wrong person

attacking? LOL

no wonder you and dog parks don't mix if what I said was "attacking" but the way you have conducted yourself in the thread is perfectly acceptable and just stating your opinion :rofl1:

You don't say assinine things and expect everyone to just respect your opinion when you've basically in a nutshell told everyone here that they are terrible dog owners because they go to a park lol

 

[Linds]

the only reason I don't now is because I have a small child and a dog park is no place for a small child but it can be an excellent place for a dog and imagine that... they are still alive.

:hail: And let me thank you SO much because of that. One of the absolute worst things I see are the people that bring babies and toddlers to our Dog Park. Our dog park is trails and a newborn baby in a bassinet or a toddler that can barely walk and his face height to most of the dogs makes me just cringe so much. Not even because the dogs there are going to bite but because they get knocked over and the bassinets make dogs want to see what is in that odd thing. The number of dogs I've seen almost jump straight up into it are numerous.

People who wear white sun dresses are second on the list of worst things :rofl1:

 

[NicoleLJ]

:hail: And let me thank you SO much because of that. One of the absolute worst things I see are the people that bring babies and toddlers to our Dog Park. Our dog park is trails and a newborn baby in a bassinet or a toddler that can barely walk and his face height to most of the dogs makes me just cringe so much. Not even because the dogs there are going to bite but because they get knocked over and the bassinets make dogs want to see what is in that odd thing. The number of dogs I've seen almost jump straight up into it are numerous.
:rofl1:

I 100% agree with this. There are a ton of parks here for kids but only one Dog park. So when I see someone with little kids I feel the same as you stated. Some of the kids parks have signs saying no dogs, not even on leash. Kids get to be kids there with no worries about being licked, knocked over, smaked with a tail or so on. But when I see kids at the dog park I will move my dogs to another area because when Sheena turns to jump into the water after a stick she does not care who her tail hits and when it is wet it is not just cold but it can hurt too. Also with Luna she loves to do puppy zoomies and with her still growing she can mis judge a turn and slip and knock agianst a kid easily and that could scare the kid or knock them over. Luna does go to onleash parks to and gets to see kids there and work on her manners with them.

 

[sparks19]

:hail: And let me thank you SO much because of that. One of the absolute worst things I see are the people that bring babies and toddlers to our Dog Park. Our dog park is trails and a newborn baby in a bassinet or a toddler that can barely walk and his face height to most of the dogs makes me just cringe so much. Not even because the dogs there are going to bite but because they get knocked over and the bassinets make dogs want to see what is in that odd thing. The number of dogs I've seen almost jump straight up into it are numerous.

People who wear white sun dresses are second on the list of worst things :rofl1:

LOL you're welcome. I honestly don't understand why people would bring small children to a dog park. Good gravy she gets knocked over by our two enough in our own house lol and it makes her so mad hahaha.