Luna's First Fight

[NicoleLJ]

Last night Doug and I took the girls to the dog park. We take them once a day and depending on DOugs work schedule will dictate if we take them in the morning or evening. When we first arrived no one else was there. WHich for Luna is kind of boring. She prefers to have a play mate to race around with since all Sheena wants to do is fetch sticks in the water. After about 10 minutes a man showed up with a golden retriever/great pyrense cross. It was just over a year old and Luna and this dog hit it right off. Wrestling and chasing each other around through the water and sand. THis went on for about 15 minutes as it's owners and us chatted for a while and laughed over their antics.

Then a group of 3 people showed up with a long haired chi and a Jack Russel. Luna, Sheena and the golden cross were all together at the edge of the water and the Jack came racing up to them snarling. Luna sniffed at it and then went back to playing with the golden who also ignored the Jack along with Sheena. The owners said and did nothing. Doug was on the bank throwing sticks for Sheena into the water. Several times the Jack came over and snarled at Sheena when she would drop the stick at Dougs feet. Sheena ignored him even when he would grab the stick and race off. This went on for about 10 minutes. Luna and the Golden were busy playing together.

Then the golden went off with his owner and Luna went to fetching sticks with Sheena. Luna had just brought Doug the stick and Sheena was already in the middle of the river waiting for Doug to throw it. Doug reached down to pick up the stick and all of a sudden here comes the Jack. Doug thought he was going to attack him to get the stick so he picked up the stick quick. But the Jack had no interest in the stick. He was heading straight at Luna and attacked her full on. At first she was shocked and so was Doug. She fell back a few feet as the Jack was jumping all over her snapping and snarling at her. Then he bit her neck and Luna used her weight and tossed him off and threw him to the ground. She then snarled and snapped right back. She never once bit him. I told Doug to stamp his foot at them and clap his hands and shout "Enough". Luna knows what this command means. As soon as he did Luna sat down and looked at him. I was so proud of her for listening. The Jack was still in shock from being tossed and held down. He stayed on his side for about 5 seconds and then jumped up and went back to swimming near his owners. Not once did his people say anything to us during this whole exchange. Not once did they make a move to get their dog when the fight happened.

2 minutes later they went up the path and we stayed. I was a little worried that Luna with her previous fear issues might now react to other dogs. I had nothing to worry about. The golden mix came back and they resumed playing with no issues. More dogs arrived and she played with them. The Jack did come back up the path after a while and gave Luna a wide berth. Luna ignored him completely.

All in all I hate the fact the fight happened, and I hate the fact that the Jacks owners just ignored it and never once did a thing. But I have to say I am very proud of Luna. There was not a mark on her, she didn't hurt the Jack and she still listened when told too. And she still played great with other dogs. The fight only laster about 45 seconds or a minute.

We have been going there for about 2 weeks now and this is the first dog we have met that was like this. Most others who bring their dogs are very responsible. Which we are thankful for. All in all it worked out and the girls still had fun.

 

[Fran101]

So glad that Luna is ok! and yea, dog parks can be full of those kind but it' great that they listened to you!

My SD trainer has given me a firm NO DOG PARKS rule for just this reason.. We do socialization with dogs we already know to be friendly but it's just too risky in a dog park and we don't want the dog to develop dog fear/aggression issues or god forbid get hurt.
Oh and you might want to be careful with Luna and other dogs later, Romeo was fine right after his attack but a day- few days later developed fear/aggression issues

Again, glad to ear lil luna is alright, sucks that both your days were ruined!

 

[NicoleLJ]

Thanks. The day wasn't ruined just that part of it was. We took Luna to the dog park agian today and she was fine with all the dogs. I agree with your trainer about the dog park. I had the same rule for Sheena her first year of training. That is why we join an agility/flyball group when she was a little older.

Our dog park is actually really good. One bad apple is not going to ruin it for us. Though next time a dog runs up the first time growling like this one did we will talk to the owners to keep their dog away from ours. I was amazed that they didn't even check their Jack over which is what we were doing with Luna when they left. It also amazed me that they were not the least bit worried about their boy getting hurt since my two are much bigger. One of these days that dog might meet a dog that is not as well mannered as my two and could get seriously hurt with his actions.

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

Wow, so glad everything turned out okay! This is something that scares me about taking the dogs to the park. I don't take Chloe - after she was attacked, I'm scared to death to have her around other big dogs. Violet loves other dogs though, and hopefully nothing like this ever happens to her. She pretty much ignores dogs that are too rough, or dogs she just doesn't like. But it sounds like that JRT was completely unprovoked! Scary.

 

[Danefied]

Several times the Jack came over and snarled at Sheena

This is where I don't understand how dog parks work... If that were me, and a dog comes up to mine SEVERAL times, I would either a) Leave, b) make darned sure the dog stays away from mine, c) ask the owners of said dog if they're going to control him because otherwise I may have to.

Most likely though it would be a. I have big dogs and a jack snarling in their face is going to get corrected, maybe not the first time, but second and third? Doesn't matter how obnoxious the little dog is being, if mine retaliate, they're the ones who get in trouble. Its not fair, not right, but I'm not going to put them in that position period.

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

She mentioned in her 2nd post that next time, she will say something to the owner after the first growl. Hindsight's 20/20, but when you're actually in the situation, sometimes you don't see the signs as clearly.

 

[Teal]

I am utterly shocked that you keep going on about how the Jack's owner didn't do anything... YOU didn't do anything! You allowed your dogs to be harassed by another dog, and when your dog made a correction to the obnoxious dog you told her to stop. At the FIRST sign of trouble, I would have told the Jack's owners to please keep a better eye on their dog... at the second sign of trouble, I would have left. Having said that - you would never catch me at a dog park, EVER. How it makes sense to people to throw random groups of dogs together, thinking it will turn out okay is entirely beyond me! If you don't have enough dog behaviour knowledge to "see the signs clearly" in the moment, then you are risking dogs' lives.

I'm glad neither dog was hurt... but I am appalled that you didn't prevent the "fight" from happening. (I wouldn't even consider this incident a "fight" - my background is in APBTs.. if this had happened with one, a dog would probably be dead)

 

[NicoleLJ]

Hind sight is 20/20 and I am in no way perfect. Or expect myself to be. Luna didn't get correct. She got told to stop which is what Enough means in our house. To stop what you are doing. And it is always followed up with a reward. So to my dogs when you use the Enough command it means that you stop what you are doing and something awsome is coming. The clapping and the stomp was to distract the other dog as well as Luna.

Yes I can admit fully that we both should have said something soon. You are totally right there. No arguement with you on that. We own that. And we know next time that even if they are small they could start something. We will be more vigulant from now on. As for dog parks it isnot for everyone. I agree. Our is a pretty good one and I am not going to take that away from my two because of one bad apple.

 

[Shakou]

Dog parks sketch me out for this EXACT reason. Suppose the jack didn't let up and kept fighting with your dog? Instinctively, Luna is going to defend herself when something is mauling her. It wouldn't have been Luna's fault, but even if she did a small bit of damage, the stupid owners could have pressed charges. This was almost the case with Charlotte when she was attacked by a lab at the dog park last fall. The other dog walked up to her and with no warning, attacked her and wouldn't stop, and Charlotte essentially beat the snot out of it in an attempt to defend herself. The fight was broken up before any serious damage was done, and it's a **** good thing because the owner was a massive a-hole who had no remorse for his dog's actions, and had it been any worse, there probably would have been a huge lawsuit on our hands and Charlotte probably would have been put to sleep. For defending herself. It's just not worth it to me.

 

[MyHorseMyRules]

I am utterly shocked that you keep going on about how the Jack's owner didn't do anything... YOU didn't do anything! You allowed your dogs to be harassed by another dog, and when your dog made a correction to the obnoxious dog you told her to stop. At the FIRST sign of trouble, I would have told the Jack's owners to please keep a better eye on their dog... at the second sign of trouble, I would have left. Having said that - you would never catch me at a dog park, EVER. How it makes sense to people to throw random groups of dogs together, thinking it will turn out okay is entirely beyond me! If you don't have enough dog behaviour knowledge to "see the signs clearly" in the moment, then you are risking dogs' lives.

I'm glad neither dog was hurt... but I am appalled that you didn't prevent the "fight" from happening. (I wouldn't even consider this incident a "fight" - my background is in APBTs.. if this had happened with one, a dog would probably be dead)

Advice would probably be more well-received if you weren't a jackass about it.

 

[Fran101]

I am not totally against dog parks and I certainly see the fun in them for the right dogs and the right park (especially ones that are less crowded/those with less crowded days).

Romeo was attacked walking on an on leash park, on leash. Does that make all regular parks (or even just regular outdoor areas) crazy and dangerous too? lol of course not. This fight wasn't about dog parks, it's about what dog fights are usually about, careless owners/dogs who should be under control.

Let the first person who has NEVER made the wrong decision in the heat of the moment cast the first stone here.
We are all "RISKING OUR DOGS LIVES" anytime we take them out anywhere or do anything with them. A dog can be attacked ANYWHERE.
What should we do, just keep them in plastic hamster balls in homes made of marshmallows?

Gotta agree with MyHorseMyRules on this one, your advice would probably be more well received without the big bold angry jackassery.

 

[Linds]

Advice would probably be more well-received if you weren't a jackass about it.

This fight wasn't about dog parks, it's about what dog fights are usually about, careless owners/dogs who should be under control.

AMEN!!

I kept trying to add something but honestly both Jes and Fran summed it up so perfectly I'm not going to try

 

[Taqroy]

What should we do, just keep them in plastic hamster balls in homes made of marshmallows?

Those are bad for their backs you know! *throws stone and hides*

Also your siggie is completely mesmerizing lol. I love that movie.

 

[NicoleLJ]

Thanks Fran. Exactly what I was thinking. Luna and Sheena are very well mannered. Luna for only 6 months old did awsome in listening to Doug when he gave the command. And really this was Dougs first dog fight. He was the one closest to the dogs. I was up by the bridge getting another stick that I was playing to use to toss to hopefully distract the Jack. It was much faster to get Doug to respond to the issue then for me to get down the steep embankment to stop it. He was slow in reacting mainly because it was the first time he has ever had to deal with this stuff and he handled it just right.

We did make mistakes but regaurdless everyone learned something, no one was hurt and Luna made us proud. We will be continueing to enjoy the dog park every day. Our two would be miserable if kept in a hamster ball of a life. lol We are lucky that ours is never overly busy. The most dogs we have seen in the park at any one time is about 25-30 and since this park is HUGE that is a lot of space so usually only 5-10 dogs max are in one area at a time but on average it is about 5.

 

[kady05]

How it makes sense to people to throw random groups of dogs together, thinking it will turn out okay is entirely beyond me! If you don't have enough dog behaviour knowledge to "see the signs clearly" in the moment, then you are risking dogs' lives.

Advice would probably be more well-received if you weren't a jackass about it.

Not sure how being honest is considered being a jackass.. I totally agree with Teal. WHY people continue bringing their dogs to dog parks after incidents like this (or even before), I have no idea.. it baffles my mind.

You have no control over what dogs come into a dog park. So to continue taking your dogs and risking another incident is just absurd. It doesn't matter if your dogs are the most well mannered, well socialized dogs out there. Can't control what types of dogs other people bring in. What if these dogs come back? What if the next time there's a fight, a dog is killed (because trust me, ALL dogs have a breaking point and most dogs aren't going to just let smaller dogs beat them up forever)? Next time your "mistake" may lead to the death of a dog, and could lead to the death of YOUR own dog if Animal Control gets involved and seizes your dog. I've seen & heard of it happening after "dog park incidents".

"Hamster ball of life"? LOL. My dogs don't go to dog parks, and they certainly don't live in a hamster ball. I find better, SAFER, ways to properly exercise them. Sorry but I find people that use dog parks as their dogs main form of exercise to be lazy. Maybe it's because I have Bully breeds and I have to be my dogs main advocate (because if they got attacked by another dog, and fought back and did any damage, they'd get the blame no matter what), so putting them into a situation like a dog park would just be plain old stupid for me, but I feel the same with any breed.

 

[Danefied]

Hmmm...
So if you don't take your dog to a dog park the other option is a hamster ball? I'm thinking there's a happy medium somewhere in there

Its about risk assessment just like anything. There is plenty I do with my dogs and allow them to do that others consider risky (like barreling through the woods at mach5 to chase bunnies). However, dog parks aren't a risk I'm willing to take. My danes could seriously hurt a smaller dog with just a play bow, let alone snarking at a JRT being a brat. Does that mean they live a life of isolation? Heck no! They go everywhere pretty much, I just don't encourage them to interact with other dogs and in fact most of the time I totally discourage it. You don't need to sniff butts with every dog you encounter, "ignore" is a great command.

For a dog who doesn't live on acreage with other dogs I totally see the benefit of a dog park, but having never been to one, I don't quite understand the "etiquette". In the OP I would have been a bit more proactive, but don't know if there is an implied assumption that the owner will handle their dog. (I tend to assume they won't.)

I get that accidents happen, but what struck me was that the JRT had repeatedly showed inappropriate aggressive behavior. Once or twice I might ignore (probably not), but repeatedly? Im not going to stand by and let that go. And then it did escalate. Doesn't take a psychic to see that one coming. *shrug*

 

[Fran101]

I don't consider the dog park to be my dogs main form of exercise, It's kind of like the icing on the cake, something fun to do on top of their regular stuff lol so no "laziness" isn't the issue here.

I don't know about most dog parks, but my dog park always has the same people. It's STRANGE for there to be a strange dog in there. The park is surrounded by condos and thus, everybody who lives there brings their dogs to the same park, everyday, around the same time.
so It's not just surrounding my dog with strange dogs, it's mostly people/dogs we see everyday. Now, of course, I don't take my dog to the park on saturday evening or sunday morning (peak times) because it does tend to get VERY crowded. and when there is an dog I don't know, I move to another part of the park.

Not to mention, the dog park is the ONLY chance for my dog to be off leash. lol welcome to my city.. there are no trails or giant open fields for me to let my dog run in, and we live in a condo, so no yard. To me, not taking him to the park would be weird for us, he would be on leash or in the condo all the time.

Maybe its a breed issue, maybe it's an area issue. but speaking from somebody who has had her dog seriously injured before (on an on leash park. go figure) I still don't consider parks to be a bad thing. I love them, they are a part of my life and part of life in my city frankly.
At the off leash dog park, I have NEVER witnessed a fight. NEVER. NOT ONCE. Maybe it's an area thing, because it's practically the same dogs every single day... but honestly, I don't see the big issue. These dogs seriously see one another EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

All dogs that enter must have their rabies shots, all dogs are registered to use the park so technically, we DO KNOW who is coming in/out, even if they aren't a regular.
and if there is any squabble (even a tiny one) the dog park cop ask the dogs/owners in question to leave before it escalates.. and thus, it never does.

Everybody should just weigh the pros/cons for their own dogs and consider if dog parks are worth it.. for us, they are. Our dog loves them, they get to be off leash and run, it's part of our daily routine and frankly, I like them too. So we will continue to go.

 

[Fran101]

Let the first person who has NEVER made the wrong decision in the heat of the moment cast the first stone here.
We are all "RISKING OUR DOGS LIVES" anytime we take them out anywhere or do anything with them. A dog can be attacked ANYWHERE.
What should we do, just keep them in plastic hamster balls in homes made of marshmallows?

please read the quote again people.

I did NOT say not bringing your dog to the dog park meant hamster ball, I said not bringing your dog anywhere or taking them out. because yea, with all outdoors, comes risk/other dogs.

For example.. my dog meets/sees other dogs ANY TIME we go outside. that is a fact. On the sidewalk, under restaurant tables, in the lobby, in the elevator, at the park, on the way home.... hence, they are all a risk. but what kind of life would he have without taking those risks?

 

[Linds]

Not sure how being honest is considered being a jackass.. I totally agree with Teal.

I pretty much agree with her basic point, just had to dig through the unnecessary argumentative combative and rude tone to get to it.

WHY people continue bringing their dogs to dog parks after incidents like this (or even before), I have no idea.. it baffles my mind.

Because not all dogs, dog parks, or people are made equally. Because many people including myself find the benefits to outweigh the risks. If that's not the case for you then whoopdedoo, don't go.

Sorry but I find people that use dog parks as their dogs main form of exercise to be lazy.

And I find people who make blanket broad statements rather ignorant.

Don't take your dog to a dog park. No one cares. People start to care when you start throwing around works like lazy or when your whole post has an underlaying tone of those who use them are irresponsible (and no you didn't straight out say that but it certainly was the gist that I got out of it).

 

[NicoleLJ]

The worst fight I have ever witnessed was actually at a flyball tournament. Go figure it was another Jack that ran across the line from they race area to attack a staffy that was waiting it's turn. The staffy ended up with the worst of the ijuries though the Jack did get some punctures. So since the was a sanctioned event, a place where the dogs are all trained and so on, and their were well over 100 dogs all running the tournament does that make it any safer then the incident that happened at the park? Neither dog got hurt at the park. Yet even with a ton of people very close by at this event the dogs got ingured. So should no one ever go to a flyball tournament agian with their dogs and are they then deemed irresponsible if they do because of that incident?

Fights, like others have said can and do happen everywhere. A dog can be safe in their own yard and still get attacked by another dog jumping the fence. Is it then irresponsible to let you dog play in their own yard? It can happen even with the owners right there.

As for the laziness comment that is totally wrong obviously. I would rather see someone exercising with their dog at a dog park(what is lazy about that) then keeping their dogs at home 24/7 to become fat couch potatoes. Not everyone has access to trails and woods and so on like others have said. I and my dogs enjoy our dog park. Most of the people there are wonderful and responsible. We will continue to enjoy it.