Kicked out of Puppy Class

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by kitcatak, Nov 18, 2005.

  1. kitcatak

    kitcatak Chow Chow Lover

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    Well, Leo is 4 months old now and he has been going to puppy class since the middle of Oct. Last Mon night we went to class as usual, even though I didn't want to and my friend that brings her chow puppy (Leo's brother) didn't go. She thought the trainer was an idiot and a chow bigot. Class is an hour long and every week I get lectured about Leo. The class consisted of 2 chow's, 2 boxers and 1 labradoodle. The boxers are both hyper little things, but Ajax was the worst. He was constantly in Leo's face, bouncing on him. Ajax's trainer was worthless and had no control at all over him. Leo would get fed up and growl at him and then the trainer would lecture ME about not allowing my dog to behave that way. I was always giving Leo a quick pull on the leash and a "No" evertime he went for the boxer. The trainer constantly told me I wasn't doing enough, but when I asked what I was supposed to do, he just talked in circles. Anyway, there was a new puppy at class this week and the first thing he did was growl at Leo. When it was time to have "free play" Leo made a mad dash for the new dog (I think it was a brittany). There was growling and stuff and Leo jumped on the other dog. The trainer immedietly grabbed Leo by the collar and held him up in the air. I ran to him, grabbed Leo away and yelled that he was hurting my dog. He told me that Leo and I should sit out today. I started to tell him I was leaving and he interrupted me and told me I needed to go and I should contact him to get a refund. He said I had an aggressive dog and I was unwilling to deal with him. What I was unwilling to do was hang my puppy by the neck if he growled at another puppy. Leo plays with dogs in my neighborhood all the time, there is growling, nipping and rolling involved and they are all having a great time. I know many of you will say "Oh, he is a chow, that trainer is probably right", but you would be wrong. Leo is a puppy and he is acting like a puppy. He never shows any type of aggression here at home and I have a 2 year old that likes to try to ride him when I am not looking. Anyway, I am sure a bunch of you will slam me and say I better watch my chow, but my point is how can a trainer of any dog promote hanging? He even commented once that if one of his dogs (he breeds beautiful Goldens) ever growled at a person, he would have to have him put down. I don't think he should be around animals at all!!!!!

    Tracy & Leo the Aggressive
     
  2. Gempress

    Gempress Walks into Mordor

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    That's horrible! Hanging him in the air by his collar? And despite what that trainer says, even the most sweet-tempered dog can have a bad day and growl at someone.

    Good riddance, I say. Find someone who knows what they're doing. It's a good thing you're out of there before that trainer did something that really hurt Leo, either physically or emotionally.
     
  3. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    petsmart people are idiots. I am thinking about dropping Lily out of her class simply because she is not learning anything and they are calling her stupid. Hannah did do great in hers though and graduated top of her class.
     
  4. Rubylove

    Rubylove Training the Trainer

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    Um, I would be reporting that `trainer'. Sounds like he has a bit of an animal cruelty problem....
     
  5. kitcatak

    kitcatak Chow Chow Lover

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    The thing is, this isn't Petsmart or Petco. It is an actual place that does nothing BUT dog training. I don't have a lot of training options living in Alaska, but I can figure out the training with a good book, the internet and advice from people here and on other boards. I was really attending the class for the socialization. I found a puppy play class a local vet organizes once a week. It is free and it is just about playing.
     
  6. kitcatak

    kitcatak Chow Chow Lover

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    I would report him, but the people never answer the phone. My husband did go down and kind of get into this trainers face. Nothing physical, just a little lecture on how to treat dogs & people. The trainer told my husband he was being intimidating. My husband asked him if that made him a bad dog. No answer from the trainer. Go figure!! Anyway, we are supposed to be getting our full $85 back, but we haven't heard anything yet.
     
  7. Rubylove

    Rubylove Training the Trainer

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    I mean report him to the ASPCA or something like that. Anyone who does that to a dog deserves a) to be banned from ever dealing with dogs again, and b) has no idea whatsoever about animal behaviour and training. Moron. This has made me really mad. Imagine all the bad things that idiot is teaching other people. If that were me, he'd be banned for ever!

    Love what your husband said, by the way...lol :p
     
  8. kitcatak

    kitcatak Chow Chow Lover

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    Yes, it made me really mad too. Chow's already have a bad rap and he just gave the people in the class the idea that they are viscous. I have a friend that is into dog training that is familiar with this company. She said she would send an e-mail on my behalf asking about when they started teaching "hanging" as a training technique. I feel really bad for this man's dogs. They are truely beautiful Golden Retrievers. I hate to imagine what he does to them.
     
  9. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    A sad experience for you and the dog !! If you dog shows any aggression at all, I would seek out other help. Chows can have an attitude that should be nipped in the bud. Only you know what his is .
     
  10. CreatureTeacher

    CreatureTeacher New Member

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    Are you kidding?? If a trainer did that to my puppy, he'd be lucky to get out of that room with all of his fingers still hooked to his hands!!! I would at the very least demand my money back. Then I would write a letter to whoever employs this monster and explain exactly the problems you have with his "training techniques". I'd write letters to the other people in the class, and tell everyone I knew which trainer not to go to. Then I'd remove the rest of his fingers. With pliers.

    This grinds my gears to no end. It's absolutely disgusting that a dog trainer--someone touting himself as a professional--would do any of this. One of the first hang-ups I lost when I began training dogs was judging an animal based on breed. That's a good clue that he doesn't know what he's talking about. If he was paying any kind of attention to what he was doing (or, heaven forbid, actually listening to the dogs he trained), he would've realized a long time ago that every dog is an individual and they need to be treated as such. Breed can give you some ideas regarding the dog's motivations or tendencies, but it's just a rough outline. There are always exceptions, and it's just plain racist to make assumptions based on breed. (See Beulah, TL Ashmore's precious pittie.)

    And I'm just nearly speechless at his hanging your four month old puppy by his collar. For goodness' sake, what did he think he was doing?! There was absolutely nothing wrong with your puppy giving a warning growl to a rowdy boxer. So he's going to torture your dog for communicating with another dog?? This is how people end up telling stories that start with, "He just bit me out of nowhere!" If you punish a dog for giving a warning, for telling you he's irritated or annoyed, why on earth would he bother to warn you again? He won't! He'll bite you instead, because he knows that's one thing you can't ignore.

    I've probably worked with 30 dogs who had been labeled as "aggressive", "dangerous", or "unpredictable". Not a single one of them has been any of those things. Most of them were just frustrated, confused, or afraid. I think if our dogs got to tell us just two things in their whole lives, the first would be, "I love you" and the second would be, "but no one listens to me!" When they try to tell us something, we punish them. When they try to tell another dog something, we punish them. When they feel like the only way to make us listen is to give a nip, we take them to trainers who punish them. Dogs can't win.

    Sorry to rant. Nothing gets on my nerves quite like someone who sells something they don't have in the first place. This industry is full of dishonest, uneducated, greedy, untrained trainers. You have to be so careful. I really hope that someone stops this man before he damages anyone else's dog.
     
  11. CreatureTeacher

    CreatureTeacher New Member

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    Any trainer who calls your dog stupid is not worth seeing. They're probably just mad that Lily's smarter than they are! Go interview an independent trainer. You'll find someone better, I guarantee it.

    It just doesn't make sense to pay someone to abuse your dog!!!
     
  12. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    We are looking into someone else actually. Lily is not stupid just stubborn. She just LOVES testing you when you are working on a new skill. It took weeks to get her to sit consistently and we are still having problems with down but are better prepared to work on them now that we know how to deal with her.
     
  13. kitcatak

    kitcatak Chow Chow Lover

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    Leo had his final set of shots today. While we were waiting to settle our bill, my 9 yr old daughter was walking Leo around to all the people. The people in front of me pet Leo and when my daughter led him away, the man said "He is awfully friendly for a Chow". I am doing everything I can to socialize him. I think that is the most important thing for any dog.

    CreatureTeacher- thank you for your post. You sound like a very knowledgeable person. I am going to try to have this man "ruined" somehow. I have just calmed down enough to be rational and come up with a plan. My husband wasn't physical with the trainer, but the trainer knew he was really close to it!
     
  14. CreatureTeacher

    CreatureTeacher New Member

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    Those are my favorite dogs, Julie, because they always turn out to be fabulously smart, unerringly loyal, and years of teeth-gritting fun! :D

    Kitcatak, the best/worst thing you can do to this guy is to ruin his reputation. I worked for a woman for a year who did just that sort of thing when she "trained" dogs, and even though I saw red on their behalf and contemplated running her over in the parking lot, what I did instead was start my own business and spread the positive reinforcement around the community. She was mean, vindictive, and even threatened me with legal action (until she consulted a lawyer and realized she didn't have a leg to stand on). I was polite, congenial, and just plain better at the job than her. :D Last I heard, she had lost a significant percentage of her clients and was stooping to lowering her outrageous prices. If you rise above him and be the "bigger man", his misunderstanding of behavior and training will eventually crush him under its weight. Hopefully someday trainers like him will be extinct!
     
  15. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I'm glad that things are looking good for you !!! You're handling it well !
     
  16. kitcatak

    kitcatak Chow Chow Lover

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    The sad thing about this trainer is that I don't think he feels he did anything wrong. I don't know that I could ruin him. He doesn't own the company he works for, they are already being informed about his behavior. I can tell people not to go to their training classes, but that doesn't affect the trainer, he can always get a job elsewhere. It just bothers me that he can sit and preach about how you have to handle dogs gently and at this age anything can ruin them and then he hangs MY dog by the collar. He knew Leo was a chow before I enrolled him. He could have just said there was no room if he didn't like them.

    When my husband went to talk to him, he walked in and sat down so he didn't interupt the class. The trainer asked if he could help him and Bill said "No, I have a bunch of questions, I will wait". He listened to the trainer go one about Chow's. Then he went on about how all dogs go through a time where they are a little more aggressive, trying to find out how they fit in the scheme of things. Then he said he never had a problem with Leo except on the first day (Leo didn't like him much, but just tried to get away. He didn't try to bite him or anything). This man just talks in circles. I am better off without his class and so is Leo.

    Ok, after THAT speech, I guess I am not rational after all! lol
     
  17. CreatureTeacher

    CreatureTeacher New Member

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    I think it's perfectly rational to want to protect your young puppy from a hoodlum who's trying to hurt him! There's just no helping some people. All you can do is make sure they can't get to your kids. :)
     
  18. BudgetsDad

    BudgetsDad New Member

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    Way to go! Some people just plain suck.
     
  19. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    Ugh. The idiot doesn't realize that by punishing your puppy for giving a warning, he might eliminate the warning entirely and let the pup go straight to correcting (biting) the other dog. Even I, a lowly teenage pet owner, know that!

    I'd say you're both better off without that trainer. I really do appreciate a trainer/behaviorist's perspective on things, but in the end, I am the one who knows, loves and lives with the dog. I know him better than any professional ever will, and if something someone wants to do goes against my better judgement, it's time for me to find someone new. :) I think getting 'kicked out' just helped you with that decision.

    I've said it before but Leo is a stunning boy, keep up the good work with him. Chows can use every 'ambassador' they can get.
     
  20. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Oh wow! I came to this thread late. I am so sorry for what happened. I can't add much at all. CT and the others said it all. What a jerk. Yup...I shudder to think of what language would have come out of my mouth to that moron. I think that socialization that you're doing is the best thing for your dog. Keep up the good work. And that little group your vet is putting together might be great. Anyone who knows anything about dogs knows that when they're face to face, that already is a potentially threatening body position. They don't know eachother. Dogs don't readily accept new members into their "pack." It's ridiculous to think that every dog is going to get along with every dog....especially when one gets into your dogs face. The guy is a moron and should be linched.

    Ok...now I'm ranting! That just makes me so angry.

    I'm glad you're outta there. You can train your dog yourself with help from online things....forums, whatever if you can't find someone there. The main thing is to socialize the livin daylights out of your pup.

    Things will look up. Good luck.
     

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