Is it wrong to leave a dog alone?
- Thread starter Gempress
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Bobsk8 and Dizzy,
I think you missunderstood my post. I wasn't attacking you guys (I haven't even said whether Jester is crated or not). But I was just asking a question. What other means, specifically? I wasn't trying to be difficult. I guess I should have just worded my question better.
I think you missunderstood my post. I wasn't attacking you guys (I haven't even said whether Jester is crated or not). But I was just asking a question. What other means, specifically? I wasn't trying to be difficult. I guess I should have just worded my question better.
Not all dogs are perfect - some are destructive etc etc etc - but these problems should be ADDRESSED not just packaged away.
How is crating solving an issue with a dog? It's not - it's merely a prevention - not a cure.
How about the high number of people that do a similar thing when they have small children. Their kids are stored during the day ( day care) and the children see their parents at night for a few hours. One day I was talking to a lady and she said that she wished she could get a dog, but since she worked, it was impossible because she didn't want to board her dog all day long. This same lady had 2 children in day care, 5 days a week.
I am very blessed not to have to work.. although I do work on the weekends.. but thats a different story.
I don't bash the mothers that do have children in daycare. One does what one has to do to get the job done and I understand that many mothers don't have the opportunity to stay at home and thats fine.
At least the lady was honest and admitted that she would not have time for a dog. I'd rather her say that then get a dog who would have no attention.
B
Bobsk8 and Dizzy,
I think you missunderstood my post. I wasn't attacking you guys (I haven't even said whether Jester is crated or not). But I was just asking a question. What other means, specifically? I wasn't trying to be difficult. I guess I should have just worded my question better.
I think you missunderstood my post. I wasn't attacking you guys (I haven't even said whether Jester is crated or not). But I was just asking a question. What other means, specifically? I wasn't trying to be difficult. I guess I should have just worded my question better.
) and is just the model of good behavior. The longer I have had Smokey, the more I feel that I was extremely lucky to have adopted her. My daughter on the other hand , adopted a 2 year old Beagle, and while the dog is a great dog and friendly, he likes to wreck things in the house while they are away at work, so she is crated. At 2 years old, I wonder if she can train this dog to behave during the day when it is alone in the house without crating ...In the mean time, the dog spends the day in the crate and doesn't seem to mind it too much.
B
Thats why I am a stay at home mom
I am very blessed not to have to work.. although I do work on the weekends.. but thats a different story.
I don't bash the mothers that do have children in daycare. One does what one has to do to get the job done and I understand that many mothers don't have the opportunity to stay at home and thats fine.
At least the lady was honest and admitted that she would not have time for a dog. I'd rather her say that then get a dog who would have no attention.
I am very blessed not to have to work.. although I do work on the weekends.. but thats a different story.
I don't bash the mothers that do have children in daycare. One does what one has to do to get the job done and I understand that many mothers don't have the opportunity to stay at home and thats fine.
At least the lady was honest and admitted that she would not have time for a dog. I'd rather her say that then get a dog who would have no attention.
Its a sad sight for sure.. I'm glad my kids don't have to go through that... but... if I was put in a situation where my kids had to go to daycare then I would do everything in my power to make the transition as easy as possible... and I would make sure they had a good breakfast before they left.. not junk food
So off topic.. sorry everyone
So off topic.. sorry everyone
i guess it depends on your definition of "sleeps with". maybe it's because i have a small house and my dogs stick to me like velcro that i find your assumption to be a rather big leap. my dogs do sleep in bed with me, but even if i didn't want them in bed, it would be no sweat to restrict them to my bedroom where they'd be "supervised".
but then again, i'm a light sleeper. if my dogs stir in the middle of the night, i'm generally aware of it.
but then again, i'm a light sleeper. if my dogs stir in the middle of the night, i'm generally aware of it.
I actually do allow Ripley out of his crate at night, because he usually doesn't get off my bed. I'm very aware of where my dogs are when I'm asleep, and even tho I can typically sleep through a tornado even the slightest whine will wake me up.
Exactly. I don't agree with using a crate to cure problems, or to lock away a dog with issues without addressing them. However, a crate is prevention and protection from those issues while the dog's owner is not working with the dog on it, or cannot supervise the dog. I don't crate Ripley because I never work on his house training issues - I do. But until he gets it, he can't be left inside unattended. For some reason, he doesn't pee in crates or expens, no matter how big they are. If I provide him with a litterbox he will go in there.
Ripley is also crated for his safety while I am gone. Not just because he'd get into stuff around the house, but because he and Dakota do not get along and I don't trust them not to fight. With Ripley's small size, one nip from Dakota could cause serious injury. One hard bite and a shake from Dakota would kill him. I don't feel comfortable endangering my dog's existance like that and frankly, I'd rather he be a little bored while I'm away.
JMO, though. All dogs are different and what's important is that people do what's best for them and their dogs.
even the slightest whine will wake me up.Exactly.
I don't agree with using a crate to cure problems, or to lock away a dog with issues without addressing them. However, a crate is prevention and protection from those issues while the dog's owner is not working with the dog on it, or cannot supervise the dog. I don't crate Ripley because I never work on his house training issues - I do. But until he gets it, he can't be left inside unattended. For some reason, he doesn't pee in crates or expens, no matter how big they are. If I provide him with a litterbox he will go in there. Ripley is also crated for his safety while I am gone. Not just because he'd get into stuff around the house, but because he and Dakota do not get along and I don't trust them not to fight. With Ripley's small size, one nip from Dakota could cause serious injury. One hard bite and a shake from Dakota would kill him. I don't feel comfortable endangering my dog's existance like that and frankly, I'd rather he be a little bored while I'm away.
JMO, though. All dogs are different and what's important is that people do what's best for them and their dogs.
W
older dog is crated during hte day and not at night. why? Because people like to walk thru our yard, and let their dogs roam, etc, broken windows are not fun to replace or scratched trim around it. At night they aren't around, and if she let's out a warning growl I can get up to see what it is. She sleeps on the floor right next to the bed. That's one reason
I have not once said crates are not good tools.
They are just that though, tools.
People over use crates, and see them as the cure to a problem, and are happy to crate 8, 10, 16 hours a day without even attempting to solve any behaviour or other issue.
There is no excuse to leave a dog crated for that length of time... Crates are hidiously over used, and over depended on.
I am not going to repeat myself further. I am not trying to win any arguement - there IS no arguement in my mind.
They are just that though, tools.
People over use crates, and see them as the cure to a problem, and are happy to crate 8, 10, 16 hours a day without even attempting to solve any behaviour or other issue.
There is no excuse to leave a dog crated for that length of time... Crates are hidiously over used, and over depended on.
I am not going to repeat myself further. I am not trying to win any arguement - there IS no arguement in my mind.
This isn't directed towards anyone.
Crating has helped Tucker 100% and has kept my mom sane. We never crated any of our dogs before we got Tucker. Pixie was never crated. But I do know that Tucker loose in the house mean coming home to an entire tornado aftermath. And yeah it is easier just to stick him in his crate and avoid coming home to that. Now that he has matured we almost never use his crate other then when we're not home. Though we are in the process of leaving him for short periods loose. He has also become better at spending nights out of his crate.
I won't lie the crate was used because we had no time to really train him how he should behave loose in the house alone. But once again we're busy. But I spent tons of time with him and today Tucker is a well trained dog and he is happy and he isn't deprived just because he is crated.
Maggiemay right now is crate trained to help with her potty training. And it does make it alot easier.
No one can tell me im doing wrong though . I don't understand why some people veiw crating as such a horrible thing and pity poor dog? If my dogs weren't happy I wouldn't leave them in there.
I mean why is it both of my dogs would just as soon sleep or play in their crates (if the doors are left open) rather then lay on the couch if they don't love their crate . And don't say its because they don't know any better. I also am really hurt and angry to see crating being called cruel .
Crating has helped Tucker 100% and has kept my mom sane. We never crated any of our dogs before we got Tucker. Pixie was never crated. But I do know that Tucker loose in the house mean coming home to an entire tornado aftermath. And yeah it is easier just to stick him in his crate and avoid coming home to that. Now that he has matured we almost never use his crate other then when we're not home. Though we are in the process of leaving him for short periods loose. He has also become better at spending nights out of his crate.
I won't lie the crate was used because we had no time to really train him how he should behave loose in the house alone. But once again we're busy. But I spent tons of time with him and today Tucker is a well trained dog and he is happy and he isn't deprived just because he is crated.
Maggiemay right now is crate trained to help with her potty training. And it does make it alot easier.
No one can tell me im doing wrong though
. I don't understand why some people veiw crating as such a horrible thing and pity poor dog? If my dogs weren't happy I wouldn't leave them in there.I mean why is it both of my dogs would just as soon sleep or play in their crates (if the doors are left open) rather then lay on the couch if they don't love their crate
. And don't say its because they don't know any better. I also am really hurt and angry to see crating being called cruel .
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I think the daycare/crating comparison is funny but perfect. I believe that both are less than ideal ways to deal with dependents. Neccessary sometimes, but not ideal. And of course, not every situation is ideal and so we compromise. I just get a little antsy when people start pushing it out of defensiveness - I was raised with daycare and I was fine, my dogs are crated 8 hours and they love it... It's possible to do stuff that isn't cruel and isn't bad and isn't wrong, and still admit that it's not great. Daycare is not just as good as having a stay-at-home mom who likes her situation, and crating is not just as good as - well, as pretty much the same thing.
For all of those who have pointed the finger at someone, Dizzy seems to be dishing it all back out at you, LOL.
Gempress- I see nothing wrong with crating your dogs. As Tessa's said, some dogs actually do LIKE their crates. It's a calm, relaxing safe haven for them.
I don't think crating a high energy dog for 10 hours a day is fair though.
People have to work. People have to go and do things. Dogs can't come all of the time.
Hades was crated, he isn't anymore. If I left for 10 minutes he would destroy something. There was no such thing as "puppy proofing", as someone mentioned I would have to have an empty room. If I removed everything that could be destroyed, he would chew on the coffee table. And this was not from lack of excercise, it was separation anxiety.
After a few months of crating everytime we left, once I left him out for half an hour. No mess, lots of praise. He can be left out of the crate now but most of the time he goes in there anyways to sleep. No he's not actually locked in the crate though.
I agree with Dizzy on the idea of crates being tools. But on the other hand, sometimes it doesn't work just as a tool, it has to be the "fix".
As long as the dogs are happy and comfortable in whatever situation they're in, IMO, I have no right or reason to point a finger at anyone.
Both of my dogs, now after using a crate, roam free when left alone. May I remind you though, that that is not very often. When I go into the shop, they come with me. If I go into town, they come with me. I do have a lifestyle where my dogs do not have to be left alone often.
So, bottom line, Gemp, I see no problems with crating a dog, while your at work, as long as the dog gets walked plenty and is generally happy.
Gempress- I see nothing wrong with crating your dogs. As Tessa's said, some dogs actually do LIKE their crates. It's a calm, relaxing safe haven for them.
I don't think crating a high energy dog for 10 hours a day is fair though.
People have to work. People have to go and do things. Dogs can't come all of the time.
Hades was crated, he isn't anymore. If I left for 10 minutes he would destroy something. There was no such thing as "puppy proofing", as someone mentioned I would have to have an empty room. If I removed everything that could be destroyed, he would chew on the coffee table. And this was not from lack of excercise, it was separation anxiety.
After a few months of crating everytime we left, once I left him out for half an hour. No mess, lots of praise. He can be left out of the crate now but most of the time he goes in there anyways to sleep. No he's not actually locked in the crate though.
I agree with Dizzy on the idea of crates being tools. But on the other hand, sometimes it doesn't work just as a tool, it has to be the "fix".
As long as the dogs are happy and comfortable in whatever situation they're in, IMO, I have no right or reason to point a finger at anyone.
Both of my dogs, now after using a crate, roam free when left alone. May I remind you though, that that is not very often. When I go into the shop, they come with me. If I go into town, they come with me. I do have a lifestyle where my dogs do not have to be left alone often.
So, bottom line, Gemp, I see no problems with crating a dog, while your at work, as long as the dog gets walked plenty and is generally happy.
Holy Moly the drama! Wrigley is crated while we are at work and while we sleep. His general routine is thus (and it does vary as hubby works vacations for people so there are some hour variations.
11pm-3am crate (I go to bed around 11pm, and hubby gets up around 3am for work)
4am-7am crate (hubby goes to work and I get up at 7am)
8am-noon crate (I and hubby are both at work)
3pm-5pm crate (hubby takes nap)
So I guess in total Wrigley spends around 13 hours in his crate in a 24 hour period. It is rather broken up though--however I will admit there has been the occasional (maybe 3-4 times) when he has been in there a solid 8-9 hours it is not the rule.
What would he be doing if not in the crate? Probably laying under the coffee table and chewing on a toy. Besides a walk and if we play activly with him in the evening that is all he does. He doesn't roam around, go for water, play actively alone, check out the window or door or anything else. I am quite serious. Wrigley is pretty boring LOL! Wrigley doesn't bark or yelp or quite honestly act like a dog so maybe he is an exception to the rule!
I would never consider leaving him uncrated as you could never have a dog proof room unless it was concrete floored and had some sort of steel walls. My friends have a rambunctious black lab and they were trying to give her more freedom so they left her in a dog proof kitchen while they were away for 2 hours. They came home to find a huge hole in the linoleum in the their brand new house!
Wrigley is not a human and I will not treat him as such. I am his owner and I control him. He does not have smooshy-wooshy feelings that I crush when I put him in his crate--he thinks yay crate yum peanut butter kong .zzzz..tired..no one bugs me here. (or maybe he doesn't since we can't really know what dogs are thinking). I hate being stuck in a cubicle all day and would love to run around outside however my boss wouldn't like that idea and since they are in charge of me I do what is asked.
I think it would be great if I were home all day and could watch him I would leave him out but I am not and so he is in his crate. I have never once felt guilty about the schedule above. I do feel guilty when something comes up and he ends up being in there 8-9 hrs straight though with no potty break (and so at all costs try to avoid it). I will NEVER have him sleep on me and get hair all over me and my bed and drool (I have no problem with other people doing it though but the bed is a completely no dog territory and always will be).
11pm-3am crate (I go to bed around 11pm, and hubby gets up around 3am for work)
4am-7am crate (hubby goes to work and I get up at 7am)
8am-noon crate (I and hubby are both at work)
3pm-5pm crate (hubby takes nap)
So I guess in total Wrigley spends around 13 hours in his crate in a 24 hour period. It is rather broken up though--however I will admit there has been the occasional (maybe 3-4 times) when he has been in there a solid 8-9 hours it is not the rule.
What would he be doing if not in the crate? Probably laying under the coffee table and chewing on a toy. Besides a walk and if we play activly with him in the evening that is all he does. He doesn't roam around, go for water, play actively alone, check out the window or door or anything else. I am quite serious. Wrigley is pretty boring LOL! Wrigley doesn't bark or yelp or quite honestly act like a dog so maybe he is an exception to the rule!
I would never consider leaving him uncrated as you could never have a dog proof room unless it was concrete floored and had some sort of steel walls. My friends have a rambunctious black lab and they were trying to give her more freedom so they left her in a dog proof kitchen while they were away for 2 hours. They came home to find a huge hole in the linoleum in the their brand new house!
Wrigley is not a human and I will not treat him as such. I am his owner and I control him. He does not have smooshy-wooshy feelings that I crush when I put him in his crate--he thinks yay crate yum peanut butter kong .zzzz..tired..no one bugs me here. (or maybe he doesn't since we can't really know what dogs are thinking). I hate being stuck in a cubicle all day and would love to run around outside however my boss wouldn't like that idea and since they are in charge of me I do what is asked.
I think it would be great if I were home all day and could watch him I would leave him out but I am not and so he is in his crate. I have never once felt guilty about the schedule above. I do feel guilty when something comes up and he ends up being in there 8-9 hrs straight though with no potty break (and so at all costs try to avoid it). I will NEVER have him sleep on me and get hair all over me and my bed and drool (I have no problem with other people doing it though but the bed is a completely no dog territory and always will be).